Not By Works

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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,042
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It is written that faith comes from hearing the message. May I know if these 4 kinds of soil refer to those who heard the message but differ in their manner of acceptance and endurance. Did they beieve the message or not? Thanks and God bless.
The seed that fell on the stony soil did not have much earth; and immediately it sprang up because it had no depth of earth (it sprang up but no crop sprang up) and and because it had no root it withered away. (Mark 4:6) There was some motion and movement toward growth, unlike the seed that fell by the wayside, yet the condition changed from sprang up (although it did not yet reach it's desired goal) to withered away. The word was never firmly rooted and established from the start. People who do not hear the word with a good and honest heart and having "no root" and produce “no fruit” do not experience real salvation.

Now in regards to the 3rd soul, some people interpret “becomes unfruitful" (as read in certain translations) as "was fruitful but then later became unfruitful." Other translations make it more clear:

Bible in Basic English - put a stop to the growth of the word and it gives no fruit.

Complete Jewish Bible - so that it produces nothing.

English Standard Version - choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.

New Century Version - So the teaching does not produce fruit in that person's life.

New Revised Standard - choke the word, and it yields nothing.

Revised Standard Version - choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.

The Amplified Bible reads, "and it yields no fruit."

Luke 8:14 says "bring no fruit to maturity."

That is not the same thing as "was fruitful, only to later become unfruitful." Produces nothing, proves unfruitful, does not produce fruit, yields nothing, yields no fruit, brings no fruit to maturity, just does not equate to produced fruit but later stopped producing fruit.

In CONTRAST, to the rocky and thorny soil, we read in Matthew 13:23 - "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who INDEED BEARS FRUIT and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty." *Only the 4th soil produced crops of any size.* I suppose the question still remains, "can this forth soil eventually become fruitless?" If this were possible, why didn't Christ include such a scenario before concluding? There is mention of a difference in the size of the crops, but no consequences or warnings are given to the lesser producers. Only the 4th soil was referred to as "good ground" and produced a crop (fruit) and there is NO MENTION OF CHOKING OR WITHERING THEREAFTER.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,857
26,019
113
The seed that fell on the stony soil did not have much earth; and immediately it sprang up because it had no depth of earth (it sprang up but no crop sprang up) and and because it had no root it withered away. (Mark 4:6) There was some motion and movement toward growth, unlike the seed that fell by the wayside, yet the condition changed from sprang up (although it did not yet reach it's desired goal) to withered away. The word was never firmly rooted and established from the start. People who do not hear the word with a good and honest heart and having "no root" and produce “no fruit” do not experience real salvation.

Now in regards to the 3rd soul, some people interpret “becomes unfruitful" (as read in certain translations) as "was fruitful but then later became unfruitful." Other translations make it more clear:

Bible in Basic English - put a stop to the growth of the word and it gives no fruit.

Complete Jewish Bible - so that it produces nothing.

English Standard Version - choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.

New Century Version - So the teaching does not produce fruit in that person's life.

New Revised Standard - choke the word, and it yields nothing.

Revised Standard Version - choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.

The Amplified Bible reads, "and it yields no fruit."

Luke 8:14 says "bring no fruit to maturity."

That is not the same thing as "was fruitful, only to later become unfruitful." Produces nothing, proves unfruitful, does not produce fruit, yields nothing, yields no fruit, brings no fruit to maturity, just does not equate to produced fruit but later stopped producing fruit.

In CONTRAST, to the rocky and thorny soil, we read in Matthew 13:23 - "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who INDEED BEARS FRUIT and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty." *Only the 4th soil produced crops of any size.* I suppose the question still remains, "can this forth soil eventually become fruitless?" If this were possible, why didn't Christ include such a scenario before concluding? There is mention of a difference in the size of the crops, but no consequences or warnings are given to the lesser producers. Only the 4th soil was referred to as "good ground" and produced a crop (fruit) and there is NO MENTION OF CHOKING OR WITHERING THEREAFTER.
You have time to fix this :D
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
Hi all...I was having some quiet time with our Lord , because in the morning I am going into hospital for a little heart op , and although I know I am saved , I just wanted to confess again to God how much I believe in His Son , and maybe I was checking myself to see if I was still in the faith as I know my op can have complications , so I felt the need to explain my love for Jesus...Anyway , I went over in my head the Scripture of by grace you are saved , and I stopped at the word Grace and pondered , and then the Scripture came to mind where God says My Grace is sufficient for you , and that`s when I thought " wow , God has not said by grace you are saved , not by yourselfs it is a gift from God , now go walk through this life I have given you , but you better check yourself all the way because I won`t be with you , No He said "My Grace is enough " , my eyes were opened some more , sorry if I am not explaining myself well , but I just wanted to post that , My Grace is ENOUGH , nothing added...xox...
Hi Rosemaryx, amazing grace how sweet the sound, thank you for sharing, and yes of course you are saved just like all of us, "by grace through faith in the Son of God." When I had major surgery I had God with me from the beginning all the way to my recovery and it was amazing the comfort He will bring to you through it all.

We will be praying for you and please let us know how you are when you regain your strength.

God bless, Rosemaryx :)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,857
26,019
113
WOW, SO SOON. THANK YOU!
You are welcome :) I see an error :( No space between the comma after the word "waist" and the following word, "righteousness." That's what happens at three o'clock in the morning o_O:giggle: I can fix that. I will probably change a few other things very minorly also. :D
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
It is written that faith comes from hearing the message. May I know if these 4 kinds of soil refer to those who heard the message but differ in their manner of acceptance and endurance. Did they beieve the message or not? Thanks and God bless.
Hi Arguless, the simple answer to the parable of the four soils is; the seed is the word of God and the soil is our heart. So yes each persons heart heard the message and yes each heart received and accepted God's word but under different circumstance. Did they believe the message? Yes but with differing degrees of belief. I've added the numbers in black just so you can better see the different types of soil which represents our heart.

God bless and welcome the forum...:)

Matthew13:19-23
Listen then to what the parable of the sower means:
19) When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, (1), the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20) The seed (2), falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21) But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22) The seed falling (3), among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23) But the seed (4), falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
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Hi all...I was having some quiet time with our Lord , because in the morning I am going into hospital for a little heart op , and although I know I am saved , I just wanted to confess again to God how much I believe in His Son , and maybe I was checking myself to see if I was still in the faith as I know my op can have complications , so I felt the need to explain my love for Jesus...Anyway , I went over in my head the Scripture of by grace you are saved , and I stopped at the word Grace and pondered , and then the Scripture came to mind where God says My Grace is sufficient for you , and that`s when I thought " wow , God has not said by grace you are saved , not by yourselfs it is a gift from God , now go walk through this life I have given you , but you better check yourself all the way because I won`t be with you , No He said "My Grace is enough " , my eyes were opened some more , sorry if I am not explaining myself well , but I just wanted to post that , My Grace is ENOUGH , nothing added...xox...
Hey Rose.....make no mistake sis...if you have trusted into JESUS biblically....you are safe and secure in the hand of Christ and NOTHING can separate you from the love of GOD......even if we believe not AFTER initial faith HE abides faithful because HE cannot deny HIMSELF....HIS righteousness has been imputed by FAITH.....
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,969
4,586
113
Why do you think this sounds like foolishness to me?
I agree with you.
You are the one that SAID: "Must Obey" removing it from GRACE and Placing it FULLY under a LAW.

Will Obey, as a result of a CHANGED Nature of our Born Again human spirit, manifesting GOD's LOVE towards HIM.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,969
4,586
113
Hi all...I was having some quiet time with our Lord , because in the morning I am going into hospital for a little heart op , and although I know I am saved , I just wanted to confess again to God how much I believe in His Son , and maybe I was checking myself to see if I was still in the faith as I know my op can have complications , so I felt the need to explain my love for Jesus...Anyway , I went over in my head the Scripture of by grace you are saved , and I stopped at the word Grace and pondered , and then the Scripture came to mind where God says My Grace is sufficient for you , and that`s when I thought " wow , God has not said by grace you are saved , not by yourselfs it is a gift from God , now go walk through this life I have given you , but you better check yourself all the way because I won`t be with you , No He said "My Grace is enough " , my eyes were opened some more , sorry if I am not explaining myself well , but I just wanted to post that , My Grace is ENOUGH , nothing added...xox...
I and everyone else here, will be Praying for You to come through this trial with FLYING COLORS.

GIVE GOD THE GLORY FOR ANSWERED PRAYERS!


 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
I
Hi Arguless, the simple answer to the parable of the four soils is; the seed is the word of God and the soil is our heart. So yes each persons heart heard the message and yes each heart received and accepted God's word but under different circumstance. Did they believe the message? Yes but with differing degrees of belief. I've added the numbers in black just so you can better see the different types of soil which represents our heart.

God bless and welcome the forum...:)

Matthew13:19-23
Listen then to what the parable of the sower means:
19) When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, (1), the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20) The seed (2), falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21) But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22) The seed falling (3), among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23) But the seed (4), falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
I agree that they believed. What I don't fully understand is that why do some people say that we are saved the moment we believe and (if we believe this) then these people who heard a nd received God's Word are saved the moment they believed.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,969
4,586
113
At todays Sermon, Dr. Gil Rugh was teaching Rev. chap. 20. And he possed a question: "Why to you suppose a great number of people choose to follow Satan, after the 1000 year reign with CHRIST on the THRONE of David is finished, and Satan is loosed from the Pit?"

He said, "My guess is, SIN makes you Stupid."
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
He said, "My guess is, SIN makes you Stupid."
is this what it means when sin causes stupidity?

Romans 3:7-8 New International Version (NIV)
7 Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” 8 Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!

as if saying, "I'm sincerely evil, at least God should be honored by that sincerity"
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
the thoughts that Satan can plant in us can be as bad as biting the forbidden fruit itself, metaphorically, it's like opening the pandora's box, the box that should not be opened in the first place.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,969
4,586
113
You are welcome :) I see an error :( No space between the comma after the word "waist" and the following word, "righteousness." That's what happens at three o'clock in the morning o_O:giggle: I can fix that. I will probably change a few other things very minorly also. :D
I knew you had to work on that late at night last night, I actually saw it as I was about to get ready for Church this morning. I was not going to say anything, because I greatly appreciate you effort. I did not notice your error, but there is no space between youcan on the second line. Thank you so much.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,857
26,019
113
I knew you had to work on that late at night last night, I actually saw it as I was about to get ready for Church this morning. I was not going to say anything, because I greatly appreciate you effort. I did not notice your error, but there is no space between youcan on the second line. Thank you so much.
You are very welcome, VCO, and thank you so much for pointing out the other spacing error! All this time staring at it and I completely missed that one :D I just fixed it now, too :) I have the working image open :)
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,969
4,586
113
What do you think Paul and Peter discussed?
What do you think Paul and James discussed?
The weather?
I mean, really, do you not think they were human beings?
They surely discussed Jesus and His teachings.
This does not take away that Jesus learned from the Holy Spirit.
Didn't you read my entire post?

What makes you think we have everything they said ? ? ?

We only have the high lights of there ministry, and only the PART God wanted to inpire them to write. Here is the Proof:

John 21:24-25 (NRSV)
24 This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and has written them, and we know that his testimony is true.
25 But there are also many other things that Jesus did; if every one of them were written down, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,969
4,586
113
You are very welcome, VCO, and thank you so much for pointing out the other spacing error! All this time staring at it and I completely missed that one :D I just fixed it now, too :) I have the working image open :)
Hey, I am on this site late at night far to often too, and I MAKE LOTS MORE TYPOS than I normally would. I like to Blame my age, but far more often than not, it is I'm on the PC way too late. A couple Nights I took my Ambien for my insomnia, and then decided I could do a couple more posts. What a DISASTER that was. LOL