Do you pray for the lost? Then welcome to Calvinism

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selfdissolving

Guest
#1
#1
In Arminianism there is no point to pray for the lost. God has already done everything he could do. He provided the atonement, he sent his ministers to preach the gospel, they told him all about Jesus, but he used his free will to resist the Holy Spirit and God is powerless to do anything about it.

By praying for the lost you are asking God to change the persons heart so they repent and turn to him in faith. Sounds like Calvinism to me!

Is God the one who effects the salvation of the lost sinner or not?

If the sinner is the one who makes the choice, then God has done all he could and theres no point in praying for them anymore.

If God is the one who saves who he will and when he will, you're a Calvinist.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#2
Jul 2, 2011
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#2
We, as adopted children of the Most High God, pray for all people, ALL..... This makes us His when it is done in Spirit and Truth. No doctrine dictated by men can remove this privilege from any who believe.
 
maxwel

maxwel

Senior Member
#3
Apr 18, 2013
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#3
I'm not a Calvinist, but there are plenty of rational and compelling arguments to be made for Calvinism.

I don't think this is one of them.


If i were a Calvinist, I would stick to firmer ground.

God Bless.


...
 
BaptistBibleBeliever

BaptistBibleBeliever

Well-known member
#4
Sep 9, 2018
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#4
Seriously? It is possible to pray for people that God has already saved before the foundation of the world? According to Calvinism, you know the guy that burned people at the stake that disagreed with him? Well, he made sure that God understood that all those people are to be given a free pass. I'm pretty sure John is miffed though at God putting all those verses in the Bible about God so loving the world that anybody may come. John Calvin is not an easy man to get to know or to befriend ... and he certainly doesn't plan to start liking new people from the great unwashed multitude that he figures were decreed to destruction.
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#5
Jul 24, 2016
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#5
selfdissolving said:
In Arminianism there is no point to pray for the lost. God has already done everything he could do. He provided the atonement, he sent his ministers to preach the gospel, they told him all about Jesus, but he used his free will to resist the Holy Spirit and God is powerless to do anything about it.

By praying for the lost you are asking God to change the persons heart so they repent and turn to him in faith. Sounds like Calvinism to me!

Is God the one who effects the salvation of the lost sinner or not?

If the sinner is the one who makes the choice, then God has done all he could and theres no point in praying for them anymore.

If God is the one who saves who he will and when he will, you're a Calvinist.
Click to expand...
I never pray for God to change another mind. As if they where an automation. But i do pray for the Gods Holy Spirit to convict people.. Yes indeed conviction can be resisted that is true..

In calvinism it is pointless to even pray for the conviction of the Holy Spirit to come upon another person because according to calvinism God either created that person to be forced to be saved or created that person to burn for eternity in the lake of fire...

I am glad i am not a calvinist.. It would be just terrible to think that a loving God would create someone with no other purpose then to be cast into the eternal lake of fire to suffer torment for eternity, a person who had absolutely no opportunity to accept the will of God.. How terrible a doctrine to believe it.. Glad i don't..

I believe God is the one who saves whom He wills and when He wills... But i am not a calvinist.. :)
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#6
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
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#6
Let us never ask the Good Shepherd to stay with the ninety and nine leaving the stray to perish……….the ninety and nine will stay together waiting for Him and rejoice with Him for the found lost one.

Praise God for His mercy endures forever.
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#7
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
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#7
Let me throw that right back at you:

Why pray for the lost, when God has already predestinated who will be saved and who wont? Our prayers wont affect it one bit.

Btw: The Bible tells us to pray for ALL men, God wants ALL MEN to be saved. Contrary to what calvinism teaches.
(It says ALL MEN, not all KINDS of men, or all ELECT men. Thats just adding to scripture)
 
BaptistBibleBeliever

BaptistBibleBeliever

Well-known member
#8
Sep 9, 2018
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#8
We must always remember that God's foreknowledge always precedes any predestination on His part. Only people that are already saved are predestinated. The word, "foreknowledge" has the prefix 'fore' in it for a reason - even though the Greek scholars totally ignore it and make the word mean something else entirely.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#9
Dec 28, 2016
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#9
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
We must always remember that God's foreknowledge always precedes any predestination on His part. Only people that are already saved are predestinated. The word, "foreknowledge" has the prefix 'fore' in it for a reason - even though the Greek scholars totally ignore it and make the word mean something else entirely.
Click to expand...
Utter nonsense and not founded in Scripture, pure man made tradition rejecting God's revelation...
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#10
May 23, 2016
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#10
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
We must always remember that God's foreknowledge always precedes any predestination on His part. Only people that are already saved are predestinated. The word, "foreknowledge" has the prefix 'fore' in it for a reason - even though the Greek scholars totally ignore it and make the word mean something else entirely.
Click to expand...
Not sure I get what you are trying to say about foreknowledge. But I do agree with what you say about predestination. Only believers are predestinated according to Scripture. There is no Scripture that says unbelievers are predestinated.
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#11
May 23, 2016
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#11
selfdissolving said:
In Arminianism there is no point to pray for the lost. God has already done everything he could do. He provided the atonement, he sent his ministers to preach the gospel, they told him all about Jesus, but he used his free will to resist the Holy Spirit and God is powerless to do anything about it.

By praying for the lost you are asking God to change the persons heart so they repent and turn to him in faith. Sounds like Calvinism to me!

Is God the one who effects the salvation of the lost sinner or not?

If the sinner is the one who makes the choice, then God has done all he could and theres no point in praying for them anymore.

If God is the one who saves who he will and when he will, you're a Calvinist.
Click to expand...
One of the most hilarious posts I have ever seen on CC!!!!!! Taking Calvinism and Arminianism and mixing the whole thing up with a critical idea such as intercessory prayer.

If the post was not so hilarious, it might actually be sad!
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#12
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
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#12
Hevosmies said:
Let me throw that right back at you:

Why pray for the lost, when God has already predestinated who will be saved and who wont? Our prayers wont affect it one bit.

Btw: The Bible tells us to pray for ALL men, God wants ALL MEN to be saved. Contrary to what calvinism teaches.
(It says ALL MEN, not all KINDS of men, or all ELECT men. Thats just adding to scripture)
Click to expand...
We pray because we are commanded to. Proper understanding of a text (1 Timothy 2:4) is not "adding to Scripture."
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#13
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
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#13
preacher4truth said:
We pray because we are commanded to. Proper understanding of a text (1 Timothy 2:4) is not "adding to Scripture."
Click to expand...
It sure is when you listen to the calvinist explanation.

Where it says God wants all men to be saved. If calvinism were true, ALL would be saved.

When I ask about it, they give poor explanatinos like "well it says pray for kings and those in authority there so it means ALL KINDS of men". Another terrible explanation ive heard is that it means all elect men.
 
BaptistBibleBeliever

BaptistBibleBeliever

Well-known member
#14
Sep 9, 2018
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#14
preacher4truth said:
Utter nonsense and not founded in Scripture, pure man made tradition rejecting God's revelation...
Click to expand...
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren" (Romans 8:29).

I'll just go with the English . . .
 
BaptistBibleBeliever

BaptistBibleBeliever

Well-known member
#15
Sep 9, 2018
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#15
Chester said:
Not sure I get what you are trying to say about foreknowledge. But I do agree with what you say about predestination. Only believers are predestinated according to Scripture. There is no Scripture that says unbelievers are predestinated.
Click to expand...
Unbelievers are certainly not 'predestinated' to hell . . . Amen!
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#16
Sep 8, 2018
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#16
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
Unbelievers are certainly not 'predestinated' to hell . . . Amen!
Click to expand...
Yup. One thing to look out for when you point this out is the calvinist will come back with : "thats double-predestination, i dont believe in that!!!"
The problem is: IF you believe one group is predestinated to be saved, and one group isnt, you automatically believe the other is predestinated to damnation, no way to get out of it. John Calvin realized this, but many calvinists today have gone soft and no longer believe in double-predestination like Calvin himself did.

BaptistBibleBeliever Peter Ruckman say this when asked if he is calvinist or arminian: he said: "Im arminian until I come to the cross, then after the cross im a calvinist"
Meaning he believed you can come freely to Jesus, then you are predestinated to glory and kept by God!
 
BaptistBibleBeliever

BaptistBibleBeliever

Well-known member
#17
Sep 9, 2018
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#17
Pete said that he would confess to being a one-point Calvinist and that would only be in the 'preservation of the saints.' Now some Calvinists prefer to call it the 'perserverance of the saints' where it becomes silly. A mack truck could hit someone not yet saved, but are elect. They can't die until they get saved. Although a true Calvinist doesn't believe a person even needs to be saved.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#18
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
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#18
Now folks please direct all your attention to Jesusism…… Calvin cannot keep up with the truth He gives to all freely.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#19
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#19
How do you guys deal with the following verse....

The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil.
 
NayborBear

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#20
Dec 6, 2015
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A deplorable! (so you know, what "state" I'm in!)
#20
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
Unbelievers are certainly not 'predestinated' to hell . . . Amen!
Click to expand...

Until they are no longer looking at the top side of a lawn mower. I agree! God's will, for those, is done!

I think people tend to place TOO MUCH "meaning" to the term "predestine." Some will "yield" to God's will, and convert? Some won't! I don't believe God predestines ANY "soul" to hell!

Having said that? God DOES foreknow those to whom He has (how can I say) confidence in doing that which, by His will, or good pleasure, TO accomplish, or execute!

God did this in the O.T.? Only a "cessessionist", would think, or believe this does not ocurr these days!
 
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