A BIBLICAL EXAMINATION OF CALVINISM
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Well, we are saved by our faith in God and in His Son, Jesus Christ, who died on the cross for our sins and rose again. This is basics of faith and in ancient Christian creeds Catholics must know.
How it is NOT salvic?
True belief, IMO, is not just intelectual knowledge of historical facts about Jesus, but its an inner trust in Him and in His work.
But if you want to say that intelectual faith does not save, then we do not have to limit it to Catholics, mormons etc, its true to all branches and churches... I was reacting to the post that seemed to me to be saying that Catholics are not saved because they are Catholics. Thats all.
How it is NOT salvic?
True belief, IMO, is not just intelectual knowledge of historical facts about Jesus, but its an inner trust in Him and in His work.
But if you want to say that intelectual faith does not save, then we do not have to limit it to Catholics, mormons etc, its true to all branches and churches... I was reacting to the post that seemed to me to be saying that Catholics are not saved because they are Catholics. Thats all.
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Creeds alone do not save anyone, my friend, trofimus. Faith comes by this
14-17 But how can people call for help if they don’t know who to trust? And how can they know who to trust if they haven’t heard of the One who can be trusted? And how can they hear if nobody tells them? And how is anyone going to tell them, unless someone is sent to do it? That’s why Scripture exclaims,
A sight to take your breath away!
Grand processions of people
telling all the good things of God!
But not everybody is ready for this, ready to see and hear and act. Isaiah asked what we all ask at one time or another: “Does anyone care, God? Is anyone listening and believing a word of it?” The point is: Before you trust, you have to listen. But unless Christ’s Word is preached, there’s nothing to listen to.
Before you trust, you have to listen. The context of this is as someone is witnessing and/or preaching. Though I'd venture to say reading the word of God can save a lost person, too. But creeds do not save. Creeds tell people what that particular church/association/conference believes the bible teaches and that is what they believe.
14-17 But how can people call for help if they don’t know who to trust? And how can they know who to trust if they haven’t heard of the One who can be trusted? And how can they hear if nobody tells them? And how is anyone going to tell them, unless someone is sent to do it? That’s why Scripture exclaims,
A sight to take your breath away!
Grand processions of people
telling all the good things of God!
But not everybody is ready for this, ready to see and hear and act. Isaiah asked what we all ask at one time or another: “Does anyone care, God? Is anyone listening and believing a word of it?” The point is: Before you trust, you have to listen. But unless Christ’s Word is preached, there’s nothing to listen to.
Before you trust, you have to listen. The context of this is as someone is witnessing and/or preaching. Though I'd venture to say reading the word of God can save a lost person, too. But creeds do not save. Creeds tell people what that particular church/association/conference believes the bible teaches and that is what they believe.
Of course that creeds do not save. Neither the Bible saves. Nor preaching. God saves. But everything what one needs to know and believe in to be saved is in basic Christian creeds, that was my point.
By basic Christian creeds I mean the Apostles´ Creed and Nicene Creed, not some specific today´s churches creeds.
By basic Christian creeds I mean the Apostles´ Creed and Nicene Creed, not some specific today´s churches creeds.
Canst thou speak Greek?
I can't, but
I ask were you there with the triune God before the foundation of the world?
Thanks
I can't, but
Ephesians 1:4
Long before he laid down earth’s foundations, he had us in mind, had settled on us as the focus of his love, to be made whole and holy by his love.(The Message)
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love
King James Bible)
even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love(English Standard)
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before [a]Him. In love(New American Standard)
For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love(New International)
Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.(New Living)
As he hath chosen us in him, before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy, and without blame before him in loveGeneva)
For he chose us in him, before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless in love before him.(Christian Standard)
In any translation, my friend, it clearly states all believers, all His chosen ones, were chosen in Christ from before the creation of the world.
Long before he laid down earth’s foundations, he had us in mind, had settled on us as the focus of his love, to be made whole and holy by his love.(The Message)
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love
King James Bible)even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love(English Standard)
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before [a]Him. In love(New American Standard)
For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love(New International)
Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.(New Living)
As he hath chosen us in him, before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy, and without blame before him in love
Geneva)For he chose us in him, before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless in love before him.(Christian Standard)
In any translation, my friend, it clearly states all believers, all His chosen ones, were chosen in Christ from before the creation of the world.
Thanks
Before I shaped you in the womb,
I knew all about you.
Before you saw the light of day,
I had holy plans for you:
A prophet to the nations—
that’s what I had in mind for you.”(Jeremiah 1:5)
God knew all about Jeremiah even before he was conceived. That does not negate the fact His people were chosen in Christ before the creation of the world.
I knew all about you.
Before you saw the light of day,
I had holy plans for you:
A prophet to the nations—
that’s what I had in mind for you.”(Jeremiah 1:5)
God knew all about Jeremiah even before he was conceived. That does not negate the fact His people were chosen in Christ before the creation of the world.
I am a bit perplexed, Ephesians 1:4 is not about foreknowledge, knew before hand as you are trying to say on your previous post which I underlined on my post 365. Actually, your quote on the Message Bible differs in the KJV and the Geneva Bible where you've frown. You see the Message had "in mind", others chosen. So it seems Ephesian 1:4 according to you if I am not mistaken does not apply to pre determination/selection but rather a foreknowledge...would you further explain Ephesian 1:4?
Thanks
Thanks
If you plan to build a house, it exists as an idea in your mind. Then you will build it and it exists as a material object. Of course, in God all this has different levels, probably not comprehensible by us.
If you want to define "existence" as such, its more a philosophical than a definition question.
If you want to define "existence" as such, its more a philosophical than a definition question.
Well, I use various versions such as the NASB, ESV, CSB, NIV. Anything that has to deal with election has to do with foreknowledge. God's election is based upon it, and foreknowledge is not just knowing beforehand, but is a verb, so it is also something God does.
I am one who advocates the federal headship of both Adams. The first Adam represented the whole human race. We were not there, but Adam represented us. When he fell, we also fell, being in Adam. The last Adam, Jesus Christ, represented His chosen people, His sheep. He lived a perfect, sinless life, died when He bore our sins at the cross, rose the third day for our justification.(Romans 4:25) The reason why Jesus came was to die a covenant death for His chosen people. Everything He did has been imputed unto us. We now stand in Him and God sees us through His Son. While He was walking on this earth, we were not there, but He represented us, all believers of all time.
God chose a people for His name sake, and gave them to His Son to redeem via the death, burial and resurrection(His sinless life is also in this). This was done from before the foundation of the world.
I am one who advocates the federal headship of both Adams. The first Adam represented the whole human race. We were not there, but Adam represented us. When he fell, we also fell, being in Adam. The last Adam, Jesus Christ, represented His chosen people, His sheep. He lived a perfect, sinless life, died when He bore our sins at the cross, rose the third day for our justification.(Romans 4:25) The reason why Jesus came was to die a covenant death for His chosen people. Everything He did has been imputed unto us. We now stand in Him and God sees us through His Son. While He was walking on this earth, we were not there, but He represented us, all believers of all time.
God chose a people for His name sake, and gave them to His Son to redeem via the death, burial and resurrection(His sinless life is also in this). This was done from before the foundation of the world.
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προγινώσκω,v (prog-in-oce-ko)
1) to have knowledge before hand 2) to foreknow 2a) of those whom God elected to salvation 3) to predestinate
Now, this is a verb, so it is something God does. God does not just merely possess foreknowledge, but He does foreknowledge. So, foreknowledge is not just something He has, but also does.
1) to have knowledge before hand 2) to foreknow 2a) of those whom God elected to salvation 3) to predestinate
Now, this is a verb, so it is something God does. God does not just merely possess foreknowledge, but He does foreknowledge. So, foreknowledge is not just something He has, but also does.
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You posted a verse and gave your private interpretation...
For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
I ask you, has God chosen to limit His knowledge concerning our sins? Are our past sins on earth remembered by a Holy God in heaven?
For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
I ask you, has God chosen to limit His knowledge concerning our sins? Are our past sins on earth remembered by a Holy God in heaven?
Because it is Christ alone who saves, not our practice of anything you mentioned in your former post, of which now you attempt to add sense to. You said formerly they're saved if they concentrate on the basics of faith and creeds. Actually you said this: "If some catholic concentrates on the basics of faith, creeds etc, he is saved."
That's totally false and falls right into their merit system. Many practice their faith and creeds, That does not equate to salvation.
Nothing in what I stated even asserted they aren't saved simply because they're Catholic. Don't even go there and attempt to put words in my mouth bro, it's uncool.
I'm going to leave it at that. I'm really surprised you're arguing this point.
That's totally false and falls right into their merit system. Many practice their faith and creeds, That does not equate to salvation.
Nothing in what I stated even asserted they aren't saved simply because they're Catholic. Don't even go there and attempt to put words in my mouth bro, it's uncool.
I'm going to leave it at that. I'm really surprised you're arguing this point.
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