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If you have been following the other two threads , ( Rom. 8:9 and our walk with Christ , repentance and the Salvation journey ) I have shown that because at the beginning of the Salvation journey , we don't have the Spirit of Christ yet ,. Christ , His Word , and the promises in His word are not ours to claim yet . Therefore , " believing " then recieving His Spirit at this beginning stage would be claiming something that is not ours yet .
This misunderstanding of how Faith ( pistis ) is applied ( pisteuo ) is from the English language not having a verb form of Faith , which should have been the words (faithe , faither , and faithing ). When they had to choose another word ( believe , believer , and believing ) it seemingly started a process of perverting or understanding it backwards . I think I made a good argument in the first two threads , here is another understanding I would like to share for discussion .
And here is my disclaimer , I don't mean to upset people or cause distention here . I've thought about and concidered these understandings daily for over 30 years . I would feel right within myself if didn't share this for your consideration .
Ok , here we are at the start of our Salvation journey . We are being drawn or called out by the Father to Christ . We repent by making a mental turn from our way to His way . We then take our first step of Faith ( pisteuo , faithing ) .
In today's church world , that step is " believing " in What God has done and promises ( His Word ) , then recieving His Spirit . As I stated , this isn't possible due to at the beginning state , none of those things are ours yet . At this stage , " believing in God Word " is not a true act of pisteuo or faithing .
So , this is where Rom. 10:17 comes in . One might say " Faith comes by hearing , hearing by the Word of God ." And this proves that the hearing of Gods word is " the " act of pisteuo or faithing .
Over the years , something about Rom. 10:17 just didn't sit right with me . First , it was the fact Gods word wasn't available for public consumption until the 1500's. My funny brain asked , how did people all over the world get access to God's word before that , before it was put together ? I realize , a few had access to the spoken word , does that mean the Father could only call those in that specific vicinity ? If the Father called someone in the year 32 ad on the other side of the world , they would have access to " believe " His Word hence could not respond in Faith.
Second , I decided to dig into Rom.10:17 deeper . When I did it took me to my Interlineal Bible , and then to my Strongs expanded .
This is what I found .
The Greek word the Writers used to communicate the word "hearing" is 189 akoe . This is the exact definition from the Strongs specific to Rom. 10:17 word for word .
( 7b ) " the recieving of a message " Rom. 10:17 , something more than a mere sense of " hearing "; an interaction with the Word and a decision is always made. [ Compare to a courtroom hearing ].
Now submitting the fact I've always known we don't accept Christ , He accepts us , I was looking at this with some big questions .
1) since this is a courtroom type of hearing , is it ever ok to put Christ or His word on trial ? Where we sit on the judgement seat and Christ or His Word is on trial ?
2) were taught never to judge each other , but it's ok to judge Christ and His Word ?
3) shouldn't Christ be on the judgement seat , and we have something that needs to be on trial ?
My conclusion , is that when they translated the Greek into the English language , they may have left out just two letters in Rom. 10:17 that again , gave a backwards understanding .
Here is how I understand Rom. 8:9 should read , with a correct application of pisteuo or faithing .
Rom. ,8:9 should read , " Faith comes by " A " hearing , " A " hearing by the word if God .
The correct application of Rom. 8:9 concerning the topic of our state of being at the beginning of the Salvation process is ,
We are called , we repent , we take our first true step of Faith toward God ( pisteuo or faithing ) which is , " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender ," when we make that first act of Faith , faithing , pisteuo in the Greek , that act goes before Christ who is legitamently sitting on the judgement seat . What is being " heard " and a decision is always being made ? The submission of our surrendered life , and whether it is genuine or not . That is what's being heard , a hearing by the word of God , " Christ " !
If , He deems the first act of pisteuo to be genuine , we move forward in the Salvation journey or process into the testing ground or what Christ calls the parable of the sower . Where 3 out of the four soils Christ had deemed genuine will fail .
At this what I'm calling the third part of the Salvation process , we still " do not " have the Spirit of Christ sealed into us yet . So Christ , His word , and His promises in His word are still not ours to claim yet either .
This misunderstanding of how Faith ( pistis ) is applied ( pisteuo ) is from the English language not having a verb form of Faith , which should have been the words (faithe , faither , and faithing ). When they had to choose another word ( believe , believer , and believing ) it seemingly started a process of perverting or understanding it backwards . I think I made a good argument in the first two threads , here is another understanding I would like to share for discussion .
And here is my disclaimer , I don't mean to upset people or cause distention here . I've thought about and concidered these understandings daily for over 30 years . I would feel right within myself if didn't share this for your consideration .
Ok , here we are at the start of our Salvation journey . We are being drawn or called out by the Father to Christ . We repent by making a mental turn from our way to His way . We then take our first step of Faith ( pisteuo , faithing ) .
In today's church world , that step is " believing " in What God has done and promises ( His Word ) , then recieving His Spirit . As I stated , this isn't possible due to at the beginning state , none of those things are ours yet . At this stage , " believing in God Word " is not a true act of pisteuo or faithing .
So , this is where Rom. 10:17 comes in . One might say " Faith comes by hearing , hearing by the Word of God ." And this proves that the hearing of Gods word is " the " act of pisteuo or faithing .
Over the years , something about Rom. 10:17 just didn't sit right with me . First , it was the fact Gods word wasn't available for public consumption until the 1500's. My funny brain asked , how did people all over the world get access to God's word before that , before it was put together ? I realize , a few had access to the spoken word , does that mean the Father could only call those in that specific vicinity ? If the Father called someone in the year 32 ad on the other side of the world , they would have access to " believe " His Word hence could not respond in Faith.
Second , I decided to dig into Rom.10:17 deeper . When I did it took me to my Interlineal Bible , and then to my Strongs expanded .
This is what I found .
The Greek word the Writers used to communicate the word "hearing" is 189 akoe . This is the exact definition from the Strongs specific to Rom. 10:17 word for word .
( 7b ) " the recieving of a message " Rom. 10:17 , something more than a mere sense of " hearing "; an interaction with the Word and a decision is always made. [ Compare to a courtroom hearing ].
Now submitting the fact I've always known we don't accept Christ , He accepts us , I was looking at this with some big questions .
1) since this is a courtroom type of hearing , is it ever ok to put Christ or His word on trial ? Where we sit on the judgement seat and Christ or His Word is on trial ?
2) were taught never to judge each other , but it's ok to judge Christ and His Word ?
3) shouldn't Christ be on the judgement seat , and we have something that needs to be on trial ?
My conclusion , is that when they translated the Greek into the English language , they may have left out just two letters in Rom. 10:17 that again , gave a backwards understanding .
Here is how I understand Rom. 8:9 should read , with a correct application of pisteuo or faithing .
Rom. ,8:9 should read , " Faith comes by " A " hearing , " A " hearing by the word if God .
The correct application of Rom. 8:9 concerning the topic of our state of being at the beginning of the Salvation process is ,
We are called , we repent , we take our first true step of Faith toward God ( pisteuo or faithing ) which is , " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender ," when we make that first act of Faith , faithing , pisteuo in the Greek , that act goes before Christ who is legitamently sitting on the judgement seat . What is being " heard " and a decision is always being made ? The submission of our surrendered life , and whether it is genuine or not . That is what's being heard , a hearing by the word of God , " Christ " !
If , He deems the first act of pisteuo to be genuine , we move forward in the Salvation journey or process into the testing ground or what Christ calls the parable of the sower . Where 3 out of the four soils Christ had deemed genuine will fail .
At this what I'm calling the third part of the Salvation process , we still " do not " have the Spirit of Christ sealed into us yet . So Christ , His word , and His promises in His word are still not ours to claim yet either .
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