OSAS= House Built on Sand

preacher4truth · Oct 31, 2018

Blik said:

No, God is a God of Grace. Our works don't "make for our salvation" nor are they "demanded of us to be saved." Your take is pure conjecture and man made philosophy, not Gospel truth.

dcontroversal · Oct 31, 2018

preacher4truth said:

How can anyone say that works are part of the equation when the bible is clear...

NOT BY WORKS of righteousness which WE HAVE DONE, but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HAS HE SAVED US.....<----this verse ALONE, BY ITSELF proves that WORKS DO NOT SAVE.......

GRACE or WORKS, ONE or the OTHER PAUL states and he is NOT SAYING BOTH will save........

Grandpa · Nov 2, 2018

DiscipleDave said:

There are no Scriptures that teach God takes back His Gift. But there are many Scriptures which teach that humans can reject His Gift, even after God freely gave it to them. What? Do you think if a person recieves a free gift they can't choose to discard that gift? Just because God gives a person a free gift does not mean a person can't reject it. We even have Parables that teach a person can receive that free gift then LATER rejects it for this reason or that reason.

God will never take back a gift that he gives. That does not mean a person can't reject that gift from God, either before they receive it, or even after they have received it, then Later discard it.

All those who believe OSAS please answer. Or continue to NOT answer because it would reveal the error of your thinking.

IN 1980 Dave accepts Jesus Christ as his Savior and Lord, he repents of his sins, and all his past sins are forgiven unto him. He is washed, a new man in Christ. He starts attending church every Sunday.
IN 1985 Dave became the Youth minister in his Church
IN 1990 Dave marries a Christian woman with two little girls
IN 1999 Dave Molests the two girls on a regular basis, Oh and he repents after each time.
Dave continues to molest the two girls, then He starts molesting the children in his youth program, after which he repents each time of those too.
IN 2018 Dave dies in a car accident. Never having ceased from molesting children.

Tell me, when Dave stands before God on Judgment Day, is he SAVED? Did he not repent after each time he molested a child?

If you answer "NO, Dave was never Truly Saved" Then answer me this Question which you will not answer I'm sure. If Dave were to have died in 1998, which for 18 years was a model Christian, living in the Will of God, and Loving Everyone, helping everyone, a perfect Christian. On Judgement Day would Dave be Judged as SAVED, if he died in 1998?

Do all you others see why they will not answer that question? If Dave would have died in 1989 BEFORE he started living a very wicked life, he would have been Judged as SAVED, a good soldier of Jesus Christ. Those who believe the false doctrine will claim "Dave was never Truly Saved" Which is just something they say to justify their own false belief in the false doctrine that they hold dearly too, and no matter what example you give, instead of them changing their belief, they will just say "Dave was never Truly Saved to begin with" Do not listen to them who are not persuaded by simple logic. If Dave would have died in 1989, He would most certainly be judged as SAVED, But when he turned away from doing the will of God, even though he continually repented of his wicked deeds, and never ceased from them, he will be judged as NOT SAVED on Judgment Day, because Dave freely chose who his master is. Is it not plainly and clearly written, your master is to whom you obey. Up until 1999 Daves master was God, but after 1999 when he started molesting children, his master became satan. God telling him to stop, satan telling him to continue just repent each time and your fine and telling him "Once your Saved, you are always saved, and you can't lose your salvation, just continue to repent". Up to 1999 he was a sheep Christian, After 1999 he was a goat Christian. Up to 1999 His name was written in the Book of Life. After 1999 his name was blotted out of the Book of Life.

OSAS is a lie from the pits of Hell. it is a doctrine satan came up with to make goat christians comfortable even though they continue to live in sin. Believing in Once Saved Always Saved is perfect for the backslider, they can continue to live in a backsliden condition and still be SAVED, still Heaven bound. How easy is that?

Broad and wide and easy is the path that leads to destruction, but narrow and difficult is the path that leads to everlasting life. Many and i say MANY are on that wide and easy path, all the while thinking they are on the narrow path. There will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth from the goat Christians, those who profess Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, but continue to live in sin thinking nothing of it, just as long as you continue to repent of the same sin over and over and over and over and over and over again, you'll be fine, is their thinking. To Truly repent of a particular sin, you MUST 1) Repent of it, AND 2) Cease to do it again.

Dave in the above situation, repented each time he molested a child. Tell me, How sorry was he if he never ceased from doing it again? i will tell you the Truth any sin a person commits and repents of, knowing full well they will continue to do that sin, even though they repent of it, is NOT forgiven of it, until they Truly repent of it, and that is to repent and cease from doing it ever again.

i smoked cigarettes for many years, but not once did i ask God to forgive me during those many years, while i knew i was going to continue to smoke them. But once i quit smoking them for good, is when i bowed myself down to God and asked Him to forgive me, and i told Him, "i will never do it again"

If Dave in the Above situation would have TRULY Repented, he would have repented, asked the girls to forgive him, ask his wife to forgive him, turned himself in to authorities, pays for the crime that he has committed, and most importantly NEVER does it again, then Dave would be forgiven by God for his wicked deeds against his wife, children, and God.

Do you repent for the same sin over and over again? How sorry are you, if you continue to do the very thing you are repenting of?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

That person was never saved to begin with.

When a person abides in Christ and Christ produces fruit in their lives, which of those fruit is causing that person to molest two little girls???

A saved person doesn't permanently damage someones emotional, physical or spiritual stability in any way.

Do you know why, essentially?

Because a saved person knows all the ways that they themselves were hurt and permanently damaged by others and when the Lord Jesus Saves them He also Heals them from all this damage.

For a person to just decide one day that they don't like being saved anymore, they have to go back to their pre-healed, pre-ignorant, pre-saved self and its just not possible.

You can't un-know Christ. You can't give Him back your healing. You can't give Him back your deliverance. You can't give Him back your Salvation.

A humble, saved Christian is too grateful to even think of such impossible silliness.

I've seen a lot of people with no real understanding take parables and spin and twist them to mean just about anything their imagination can come up with. Try finding scripture that is not in parable form and doesn't need your special interpretation to show that OSAS is false.

This is solid as a Rock;

John 10:27-28
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

That's really as simple as it gets. If you try to make some parable in the bible say something other than this then it is just your imaginations that you are projecting and not the Truth.

Grandpa · Nov 2, 2018

preston39 said:

There are all kinds of things we must do to meet Gods Requirements for Salvation.

But we can't do any of them.

Our Only Hope is Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

preston39 · Nov 2, 2018

Grandpa said:

Don't you wish it was that simple...... so you would have support for your foolish position on scripture....OSAS

you never saw/heard/of that..... new age religion belief of OSAS..... prior to the 1960's. If you want a challenge ,....show me and you may have a follower?

Grandpa · Nov 2, 2018

preston39 said:

It is that simple.

If you don't understand it then pray for Wisdom and Understanding.

Grandpa · Nov 2, 2018

preston39 said:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

preston39 · Nov 2, 2018

Keep trying...you having achieved convincing...yet.

DiscipleDave · Nov 4, 2018

Endoscopy said:

If Being Saved ONLY by Grace through Faith in Jesus, then there would be no need for all the other Scriptures in the New Testament.
We are Saved by Grace through Faith, this is TRUE, but it is NOT the ONLY TRUTH.
We are Saved by confessing
We are Saved by Repenting
We are Saved by calling upon His name
We are Saved by obeying Him
We are Saved by enduring to the End

This generation loves to pick and choose which verses they will believe and which ones they will NOT believe. All are TRUE, and ALL Scriptures are inspired by God. Those who pick and choose which verse to believe in to be SAVED, are deceived and know not the TRUTH and are on that broad and easy path that MANY will be on, all the while thinking they are Heaven bound. ALL VERSES are to be believed and adhered to, not just one or two verses that you LIKE or fits into what you believe is the truth.

For who does not believe and accept readily the verse that teaches, if you believe in Jesus your Saved and have Eternal Life?
But how many will believe and accept the verse that says, Eternal Life is to them that OBEY Jesus, which commands us to Love One Another?

They readily choose and accept the first, but reject, make void, or interpret away all other verses, such are those of the last day generation.

If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures, then what you believe is Wrong.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave · Nov 4, 2018

preston39 said:

When a person GETS SAVED, they accept the free gift from God. and their name is written in the Book of Life. Then many years after they are Saved, they start living in sins, say molesting children. Do you think that person blots out his own name from the Book of Life, or does God blot his name out of the Book of Life? Even though that person chooses to fall away from God, it is God that blots out his name from the Book of Life, and in doing so, the free gift is of no effect to that one who has fallen back into living in sin.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave · Nov 4, 2018

justpassinthrough said:

Amen.

Those who steal from their brother are not loving their brother.

Those who commit adultery with their brother’s wife are not loving their brother.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

If a brother murders his brother then he is not loving his brother.

If a brother lies to his brother then he is not loving his brother.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

If a brother covets his brother’s wife or things his brother has, he is not walking in love toward his brother.

If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also. 1 John 4:20-21

This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it. 2 John 6

JPT

You are not far from the narrow and difficult path that leads to life everlasting, which a very few will ever find.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave · Nov 4, 2018

Hevosmies said:

Thank you Brother, don't get to many compliments in this world. Wait, are you being sarcastic?

Hevosmies said:

How can what i said, be something that the Apostle said, you are making no since at all Brother. How old are you?

Hevosmies said:

i agree 100%, Amen brother.

Hevosmies said:

false doctrine? Are you saying that i am teaching false doctrine? If so then it should be real easy for you to show everyone something that that i said that is contrary to scriptures. If i am indeed teaching false doctrines like you are accusing, then surely you will have Scriptures to back up that accusations, right? Or are you merely casting judgment without evidence. If then i have said something contrary to Scriptures, then you should be able to reveal those Scriptures. i think, you will show NONE. Why? because what i teach is what God told me, and nothing He told me is contrary to Scriptures, therefore even though you judge me as being false, you can't back that accusation up with Scriptures.

Oh how easy is it to accuse a Brother and Sisters in the Lord, without any basis whatsoever. The same way you judge others, you will be Judged by God. If then you judge others based, NOT ON SCRIPTURES, but judge them based on your own beliefs, so shall you be judge by your own beliefs, The Word of God will judge all false accusers of the Brethren.

People, hearken unto me, if you are going to accuse a Christian brother or sister of teaching falsely, then show where they have done so. But woe unto them who accuse the children of God, without any evidence, without any Scriptures to back up their accusations, how can they escape the wrath of God when it comes upon the Earth. Even myself included, if i judge any person, and that judgment is NOT based on Scriptures, then i too will suffer the same fate.

Those who desire to judge me, or even others, if you are going to do so, then reveal Scriptures the back up your accusations. Woe to this generation indeed, which have no love one for another, but would rather cut down, make fun of, belittle, ridicule.
Those who Love One Another are accepted by Jesus Christ, Those who do not Love One Another do not have Eternal Life. For Scriptures plainly and clearly teaches:

Act_5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Heb_5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

And what does our Master and Lord COMMAND of True Christians to do:

Joh_13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Woe to those who claim to love Jesus, but fail to love others, these are goat Christians, and you shall know them by their fruits. If they Love One Another or if they do not.

Hevosmies said:

Listen to my every word, God forbid, but listen to every word God told me, most certainly you should. But God already told me in conversation, that this generation would not hear me nor hearken to the TRUTHS that He tells me. i even asked Him, why even tell them if you already know they will not hear it. He told me so they would have no cloak for their sins, that when they stand before Me on Judgment Day they won't be able to plead ignorance, that they did not know the TRUTH. Therefore i tell you the TRUTHs that He told me to tell this generation, knowing full well that this generation will not accept it, but i have not failed to do what He told me to do, and you have heard the TRUTH, and have rejected it. And even reject it when i tell you plainly it comes from God. And nothing i teach is contrary to any verse in all of Scriptures, but because you choose to believe the false doctrines that this generation holds on to, over those things that God told me. This generation disagrees with what i teach, NOT because it is contrary to the Word of God, but because it is contrary to what they think is the truth. There will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth, and it won't be because i did not try to warn you.

Hevosmies said:

Yes, as we all should be correct?

Hevosmies said:

wow that just blew me out of the water, you must have heard me say what i just said above before in another post. i do not know why God chose me, i really don't. But i do know that my mom was called to be a Nun in the Catholic Church, but she fell in love with my dad, and hence here i am. She told me that she felt so bad that she did not do what God called her to do that she prayed to God that she would dedicate her first born son to Him, therefore while i was in my mothers womb, she read me the Bible. Before i was 12 years old, i had read the entire Bible 3 times, now at age 50 i have read the entire Bible over 80 times. i really don't know why God chose me, but He did. and i do all things to please my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, ALL THINGS.

Hevosmies said:

Am i fake because you Hevosmies says so, or because the Word of God reveals it? So far, i have not seen one Scriptures from you at all, why is that? All i hear from you is judgements against me, which loves you.

Hevosmies said:

For sure, Teach against sin, and teach Love One Another, and see how fast they call you false teacher, in this generation.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave · Nov 4, 2018

preston39 said:

We should Love One Another at all costs.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Grandpa · Nov 5, 2018

DiscipleDave said:

We are saved by Grace through Faith.

The fruit of that Salvation is confession, repentance, calling upon Him, obeying, and enduring to the end... etc

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

If salvation is not of works then it is not acquired by what you do. If it is not acquired by what you do then it is entirely the work of God and entirely by Grace through Faith.

That doesn't make sense to most people. Trusting in the Lord 100% for 100% of what you receive.

John 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

The gospel is just too simple for most of us to really understand. Or really want in a lot of instances. We tend to value things more the harder we have to work for them. Being given a priceless gift freely is just not something we can really grasp very well.

Matthew 18:3-5
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

Hevosmies · Nov 5, 2018

preston39 said:

This is just NOT TRUE.

........

Did you do ANY research into this AT ALL? or are you just repeating falsehoods you heard from someone?

Here is a hint: ALL calvinist bible commentators from 1600s to 1800s (thats before the 1960s you know) believed in OSAS. There is a caveat to it though, they didnt believe the modern day "Just believe this list of things and you're saved forever, no repentance or changed life required".
But they DID believe you couldnt lose your salvation. They believed in "Perseverence of the saints". Meaning, the elect, to whom God has granted faith and repentance will then be preserved by God's grace and will overcome the world.

That is probably my favorite point of calvinist theology! I absolutely love the doctrine of "Perseverence of the saints".

Go to biblehub and look up any of those commentaries, from before 1960s... easy.

Grandpa · Nov 5, 2018

Hevosmies said:

All works salvation theologies CANNOT believe in OSAS because it nullifies ALL their beliefs.

What is the point in believing that a person MUST do certain works to be saved and stay saved if once a person is Saved God Keeps them by His Power?

ALL the power in their false gospel evaporates. People wouldn't have to rely on their Pastor or their Priest for information on what they needed to keep doing in order to not inadvertently lose Salvation. They would only have to rely on the Lord Jesus Christ and have faith in Him, NOT relying on their own understanding.

Endoscopy · Nov 5, 2018

preston39 said:

I totally disagree with your interpretation of that scripture. We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Once that happens we are in God's hand!!

Endoscopy · Nov 5, 2018

preacher4truth said:

Between 212 and 500 the creeds were created. The elders created the creeds for 3 reasons.
1. What a person must believe to be a Christian.
2. Anything contrary is heresy.
3. All other Biblical issues are agree to disagree.

Therefore outside of the creeds there has been many disagreements resulting in the many gospel preaching denominations.

OSAS is one of these issues.

preston39 · Nov 5, 2018

DiscipleDave said:

D...,

Not scriptural...when we are born our name goes into the Book of Life.
I conclude you mean when a person becomes born again.(Our name goes into the Lamb's Book of Life), (we are not saved until G-d declares so .....upon judgement after physical death).

Grandpa · Nov 5, 2018

DiscipleDave said:

How do you know it is when a person gets Saved that their name is written in the Book of Life?

Is there scripture that states this?

How do you know that it is not ALL that are born that are written in the Book of Life and the ones who are blotted out are the ones who do not come to Christ??????????

How is it you don't see that by your philosophical conclusions you come against scripture?

OSAS= House Built on Sand

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