It might be bantering D, but some are reading along and getting a very incorrect message that could lead them straight to hell.
The bible is chock full of scripture that says that we will not enter into heaven UNLESS we obey JESUS' laws and remain faithful to Him. All the N.T. writers confirm this.
What you're stating is that we could live a life of sin and still enter heaven...this hardly even requires scripture...it's so unbiblical.
I said. A LIFE OF SIN,,,,,,,NOT sin. We all sin.
In Mathew 7:23 Jesus tell us that He will as anyone who practices lawlessness to depart from Him.
Practice lawlessness means not to practice law.
Mathew 10:33 Jesus tells us that whoever denies Him before men, HE will deny before God Father --- this is in direct contradiction to what you've stated in your post.
Mathew 12:31, 32 Jesus says that any sin will be forgiven, but blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will NOT be forgiven. In the scenario I presented to you, that person is blaspheming the Holy Spirit by DENYING Him, and yet YOU say that person is still saved. Once again, clearly going against what Jesus Himself has taught.
Many more verses, but I'll address one you brought up:
You're apparently referring to 2 Timothy 2:12-13 when you said:
IF<---->WE BELIEVE NOT, HE abides faithful because HE cannot DENY HIMSELF
Here are the verses:
12If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us;
13If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
So which is it? If we deny Him, He will deny us?
OR
If we are faithless, He remains faithful for He
cannot deny Himself?
How do YOU explain this apparent contradiction in Paul's words??
Please notice that in the first instance Jesus is denying US
in the second instance He's denying HIMSELF.
<----IT SAYS HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF FRAN
Could you explain to us what that means?
The bible speaks of salvation,,,not rewards. I won't even get into this till you could explain the above.
Thanks.
See....the simplicity of Christ alludes all that tie faith and works together for or to keep salvation<---false gospel
Why not use some good ole common sense Fran.........
Where I am going you cannot come <---Who said this, to whom was it spoken and why? <---because they DENIED HIM<->HIS message, HIS mission, HIS purpose and for sure his FAITH.......
Then He said again to them, "I go away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin; where I am going, you cannot come." ..................And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."
ALL who deny Christ will be DENIED by him before the FATHER...it is not about a saved man losing salvation and there is a general expectation and the word of God is for the saved and at the same time is filled with generalized statements of truth for the LOST
REGARDLESS.....YOU are pitting the bible against the bible.....LET"S logically deduce an absolute fact.......
LOGICALLY.....lets do some math
#1. The bible uses the following terms to describe salvation or the life given-->By grace through faith, eternal, everlasting, to the uttermost, kept by the power of God, lose nothing, finish what he began, sealed, Father's hand, Son's hand, may know we have, freely given, GRACE OR WORKS not BOTH, not by works of righteousness which we have done, not of works lest any man should boast and on and on.
#2. God the God of wording....he is PRECISE in what he states, EVERY WORD is inspired in CONTEXT, HE uses PRECISE statements of fact, words, verb tense, inspired two of the most precise LANGUAGES to give it in.....etc........
#3. BASED upon
#'s 1 and 2, TO say the bible teaches a losable, salvation based upon WORKS not only pits the bible against itself, but also deems the whole thing untrustworthy......AT THE END of the day there is but 1 gospel that has power to save a man ALL other gospels have NO POWER and lead to a very, very bad day.
#4. Fran, you can peddle a salvation that can be kept or lost ALL day long based upon works which, you obviously do, and I can point to numerous facts that YOU MUST chunk to believe and or teach what you teach.
a. You must deny that you teach the same exact thing the plenteous in number embraced and pushed. The believed they knew JESUS as LORD and they fully expected and believed that their WORKS in some form or fashion helped the odds, chances and or was the ticket itself to get into the kingdom. Their gospel can be boiled down to a belief in JESUS (LORD, LORD) and their works were part of the equation. <---THE EXACT THING that ALL workers for BELIEVE....
THEY call JESUS LORD (religiously) and they BELIEVE their WORKS in the NAME of JESUS was/is the winning ticket.
b. You must deny the truthful application of the words, phrases, statements in
#1 above in order to embrace and teach a works based, self kept, blended gospel that includes a losable salvation. This alone pits the bible against the bible in the very minimum as they both cannot be right....deductive reason would dictate that GOD would not use the words, phrase, statements in #1 if salvation was losable and or gained, maintained by works.
c. You must deny that every attempt by man dia works to
cover their own shame or sin was rejected by God.....such as, Adam and EVE (fig leaves), CAIN (works of his hands), Pharisees (Belief and Works) etc......WHO KILLED the ANIMALS, SHED BLOOD, MADE THE COVERINGS and COVERED in the Garden to cover their SHAME and SIN.....what Part did ADAM or EVE have in that other than being taken and COVERED BY GOD!
d. YOU must deny, twist, change, embellish, or go outside the context to get the bible to teach a works based salvation that can be lost or kept by performance/works.....
e. YOU must deny the fact that the saved will have both good and bad works, some will have works that get torched which proves they were not biblical and yet they remain SAVED.....and or that even MEN after the hearts and mind of GOD can and do horrific things that equate to pure evil and yet they speak of and spoke of their salvation in a present tense and instead of losing that which was not losable they were instead CHASTENED to the "tenth" degree.
I could carry this on for hours.......Fran....I am sorry....I will NEVER embrace what you espouse......it is not correct......
