Not Eating Pork (Biblical Reason?)

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posthuman

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posthuman

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Just where is your biblical evidence for this statement. Go ahead and list them so we can dismantle them one by one.
apart from your mistake about the historical record, two points to mention:

  1. p_rehbein was quoting an article, not his own writing. so you're asking the wrong person.
  2. the article he quoted that you replied to said this "after Christ’s resurrection no biblical data suggests that Christians kept the Sabbath" -- so the evidence you are looking for is absence of evidence: the argument presented in the article he quoted is that there is no Biblical evidence of Christians keeping sabbath. therefore, the 'evidence' you want to be listed is the entire NT -- in which you will find zero record of believers keeping sabbath and zero record of believers being commanded to keep it.
 
L

LPT

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Eutychus sure did raise from the dead on a sunday first day of the week.
 

posthuman

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Now that ain't kosher.:)
from the essay i gave a link to --

"The earliest explicit references to the observance of Sunday
as the Christian Sabbath are by Barnabas (ca. 135 A.D.) and Justin (ca. 150
A.D.).
"

not that i think Msgr Bacchiochi's commentary is 'kosher' but that as an historian he's gathered factual data and commented on it. while his interpretation of facts may be questionable the facts themselves aren't - so much so that even this guy, totally SDA, is by the things he confesses here contradicting the veracity of SDA's prophetess E.G. White, who touted & popularized the 'Constantine changed it' line.
 

posthuman

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Eutychus sure did raise from the dead on a sunday first day of the week.
a lot of very interesting things in the Bible take place on the eighth day, actually
 

Studyman

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(Act 10:9) On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour. Act 10:10) And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,(Act 10:11) And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth. Act 10:12) Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.(Act 10:13) And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

God tells Peter to kill and eat all manner of things.

(Act 10:14) But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

Peter wasn't sure that he should eat.

(Act 10:15) And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
(Act 10:16) This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven. (Scriptures from KJV.)

Peter is told effectively that God has made all things clean. "Peter naturally referred to the well known and admitted written Law. One design of the vision was to show him that that Law was now to pass away." (Barnes)

Peter was being shown that the old law was ended and now there was no division between Jew and Gentile.

Everyone is unclean until he is cleansed by God. Jew and Gentile. The Jews religious tradition s rejected this Biblical fact. Men can change, men can repent and become cleansed, pigs are unclean and has no ability to make itself change. They were created unclean, and will remain that way as the Bible clearly prophesies. What God has cleansed. He cleanses men, not snakes, tape worms or pork.
 

Deade

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from the essay i gave a link to --

"The earliest explicit references to the observance of Sunday
as the Christian Sabbath are by Barnabas (ca. 135 A.D.) and Justin (ca. 150
A.D.).
"

not that i think Msgr Bacchiochi's commentary is 'kosher' but that as an historian he's gathered factual data and commented on it. while his interpretation of facts may be questionable the facts themselves aren't - so much so that even this guy, totally SDA, is by the things he confesses here contradicting the veracity of SDA's prophetess E.G. White, who touted & popularized the 'Constantine changed it' line.
This is who changed it, from their own mouths.

Roman Catholic Confessions

James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of our Fathers, 88th ed., pp. 89.

"But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify."

James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore (1877-1921), in a signed letter.

"Is Saturday the seventh day according to the Bible and the Ten Commandments? I answer yes. Is Sunday the first day of the week and did the Church change the seventh day -Saturday - for Sunday, the first day? I answer yes . Did Christ change the day'? I answer no!

"Faithfully yours, J. Card. Gibbons"

The Catholic Mirror, official publication of James Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893.

"The Catholic Church, . . . by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday."

Daniel Ferres, ed., Manual of Christian Doctrine (1916), p.67.

"Question: How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holy days?

"Answer. By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of, and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same Church.'

Catholic Virginian Oct. 3, 1947, p. 9, art. "To Tell You the Truth."

"For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the[Roman Catholic] church outside the Bible."

Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine (1957), p. 50.

"Question: Which is the Sabbath day?

"Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

"Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?

"Answer. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."

T. Enright, C.S.S.R., in a lecture at Hartford, Kansas, Feb. 18,1884.

"I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, 'Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.' The Catholic Church says: 'No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.' And lo! The entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church."

Excerpts from: TSS Magazine
 

posthuman

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This is who changed it, from their own mouths.
if you say Constantine changed something, then shouldn't it be Constantine's own mouth you're quoting?
i see a bunch of people who came 1500+ years later..
 

posthuman

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They were created unclean
I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself.
But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean.
(Romans 14:14)
 

Deade

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Now, let hear from the Protestants:






Protestant Confessions

Protestant theologians and preachers from a wide spectrum of denominations have been quite candid in admitting that there is no Biblical authority for observing Sunday as a sabbath.

Anglican/Episcopal

Isaac Williams, Plain Sermons on the Catechism , vol. 1, pp.334, 336.

"And where are we told in the Scriptures that we are to keep the first day at all? We are commanded to keep the seventh; but we are nowhere commanded to keep the first day .... The reason why we keep the first day of the week holy instead of the seventh is for the same reason that we observe many other things, not because the Bible, but because the church has enjoined it."

Canon Eyton, The Ten Commandments , pp. 52, 63, 65.
"There is no word, no hint, in the New Testament about abstaining from work on Sunday .... into the rest of Sunday no divine law enters.... The observance of Ash Wednesday or Lent stands exactly on the same footing as the observance of Sunday."

Bishop Seymour, Why We Keep Sunday .
We have made the change from the seventh day to the first day, from Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of the one holy Catholic Church."

Baptist

Dr. Edward T. Hiscox, a paper read before a New York ministers' conference, Nov. 13, 1893, reported in New York Examiner , Nov.16, 1893.
"There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday. It will be said, however, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week .... Where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament absolutely not.
"To me it seems unaccountable that Jesus, during three years' intercourse with His disciples, often conversing with them upon the Sabbath question . . . never alluded to any transference of the day; also, that during forty days of His resurrection life, no such thing was intimated.
"Of course, I quite well know that Sunday did come into use in early Christian history . . . . But what a pity it comes branded with the mark of paganism, and christened with the name of the sun god, adopted and sanctioned by the papal apostasy, and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to Protestantism!"

William Owen Carver, The Lord's Day in Our Day , p. 49.
"There was never any formal or authoritative change from the Jewish seventh-day Sabbath to the Christian first-day observance."

Congregationalist

Dr. R. W. Dale, The Ten Commandments (New York: Eaton &Mains), p. 127-129.
" . . . it is quite clear that however rigidly or devotedly we may spend Sunday, we are not keeping the Sabbath - . . 'Me Sabbath was founded on a specific Divine command. We can plead no such command for the obligation to observe Sunday .... There is not a single sentence in the New Testament to suggest that we incur any penalty by violating the supposed sanctity of Sunday."

Timothy Dwight, Theology: Explained and Defended (1823), Ser. 107, vol. 3, p. 258.
" . . . the Christian Sabbath [Sunday] is not in the Scriptures, and was not by the primitive Church called the Sabbath."

Disciples of Christ

Alexander Campbell, The Christian Baptist, Feb. 2, 1824,vol. 1. no. 7, p. 164.
"'But,' say some, 'it was changed from the seventh to the first day.' Where? when? and by whom? No man can tell. No; it never was changed, nor could it be, unless creation was to be gone through again: for the reason assigned must be changed before the observance, or respect to the reason, can be changed! It is all old wives' fables to talk of the change of the Sabbath from the seventh to the first day. If it be changed, it was that august personage changed it who changes times and laws ex officio - I think his name is Doctor Antichrist.'

First Day Observance , pp. 17, 19.

"The first day of the week is commonly called the Sabbath. This is a mistake. The Sabbath of the Bible was the day just preceding the first day of the week. The first day of the week is never called the Sabbath anywhere in the entire Scriptures. It is also an error to talk about the change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. There is not in any place in the Bible any intimation of such a change."

Lutheran

The Sunday Problem , a study book of the United Lutheran Church (1923), p. 36.
"We have seen how gradually the impression of the Jewish sabbath faded from the mind of the Christian Church, and how completely the newer thought underlying the observance of the first day took possession of the church. We have seen that the Christians of the first three centuries never confused one with the other, but for a time celebrated both."

Augsburg Confession of Faith art. 28; written by Melanchthon, approved by Martin Luther, 1530; as published in The Book of Concord of the Evangelical Lutheran Church Henry Jacobs, ed. (1 91 1), p. 63.
"They [Roman Catholics] refer to the Sabbath Day, a shaving been changed into the Lord's Day, contrary to the Decalogue, as it seems. Neither is there any example whereof they make more than concerning the changing of the Sabbath Day. Great, say they, is the power of the Church, since it has dispensed with one of the Ten Commandments!"

Dr. Augustus Neander, The History of the Christian Religion and Church Henry John Rose, tr. (1843), p. 186.
"The festival of Sunday, like all other festivals, was always only a human ordinance, and it was far from the intentions of the apostles to establish a Divine command in this respect, far from them, and from the early apostolic Church, to transfer the laws of the Sabbath to Sunday."

John Theodore Mueller, Sabbath or Sunday , pp. 15, 16.
"But they err in teaching that Sunday has taken the place of the Old Testament Sabbath and therefore must be kept as the seventh day had to be kept by the children of Israel .... These churches err in their teaching, for Scripture has in no way ordained the first day of the week in place of the Sabbath. There is simply no law in the New Testament to that effect."

Methodist

Harris Franklin Rall, Christian Advocate, July 2, 1942, p.26.
"Take the matter of Sunday. There are indications in the New Testament as to how the church came to keep the first day of the week as its day of worship, but there is no passage telling Christians to keep that day, or to transfer the Jewish Sabbath to that day."

John Wesley, The Works of the Rev. John Wesley, A.M., John Emory, ed. (New York: Eaton & Mains), Sermon 25,vol. 1, p. 221.
"But, the moral law contained in the ten commandments, and enforced by the prophets, he [Christ] did not take away. It was not the design of his coming to revoke any part of this. This is a law which never can be broken .... Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind, and in all ages; as not depending either on time or place, or any other circumstances liable to change, but on the nature of God and the nature of man, and their unchangeable relation to each other."

Dwight L. Moody
D. L. Moody, Weighed and Wanting (Fleming H. Revell Co.: New York), pp. 47, 48.
The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. This fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God Wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?"

Presbyterian

T. C. Blake, D.D., Theology Condensed, pp.474, 475.
"The Sabbath is a part of the decalogue - the Ten Commandments. This alone forever settles the question as to the perpetuity of the institution . . . . Until, therefore, it can be shown that the whole moral law has been repealed, the Sabbath will stand . . . . The teaching of Christ confirms the perpetuity of the Sabbath."​


Excerpts from: TSS Magazine
 

Deade

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if you say Constantine changed something, then shouldn't it be Constantine's own mouth you're quoting?
i see a bunch of people who came 1500+ years later..
It is just a matter of history "En hoc signo vinces": Constantine's vision and the reason he courted Christianity, while still practicing his pagan religion. He is the one that called Nicene and later councils to establish doctrine. We would not have the RCC if not for him. :cool:
 

p_rehbein

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Nothing quite like a good Pulled Pork Sandwich. I like mine with vinegar slaw on top, side of fries, and a quart jar of Bama Sweet Tea.

 

Studyman

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I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself.
But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean.
(Romans 14:14)

Yes, A pig didn't create itself, and didn't create its own purpose or make itself unclean. And I agree what a man believes is what a man believes. The reason I believe pork is unclean is because the Christ, who created All Things, told me in His Word to know the difference between what is clean and what is unclean, to know what is food and what is not food.. He spelled it out very well actually, unlike the religious traditions of the land like Xmas and lent. It is His creation and I'm OK with that even though the religions of the land reject much of what He says.

Like Paul said when speaking about the weak in Faith.

Let each man be convinced in his own mind.

Do we believe in the Christ of the Bible? Or the religious traditions of the land which reject His creation.
 

posthuman

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Like Paul said when speaking about the weak in Faith.
Romans 14:2-3
One person's faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them.
 

posthuman

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Do we believe in the Christ of the Bible? Or the religious traditions of the land which reject His creation.
1 Timothy 4:3-5
They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.
 

Studyman

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Romans 14:2-3
One person's faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them.
The judgment is already there. God already made it. Your unbelief, or interpretation of this one verse doesn't make the rest of the Word of God void.

Tim.2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

I didn't create His program, I just believe in it.
 

posthuman

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The judgment is already there.
Romans 14:3
the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them.

Colossians 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink

1 Timothy 4:2-3
Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.

1 Corinthians 8:8
food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

Romans 14:16-17
do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil, for the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking
 

Studyman

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1 Timothy 4:3-5
They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

Of course, why would I abstain from certain foods which God has consecrated as food?

After all, Gods Word is truth in my belief. I know and believe the Truth.

Lev.11:
45 For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.
46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:
47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

So what if the religions of the land can't control their lust or enmity towards God. Shall I deny the Christ and His Words just because religious man can't control their rebellion and lust?

If God made something clean, or unclean, then His foundation stands regardless of man's religious transitions. IMO.
 

Studyman

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="posthuman, post: 3760430, member: 170505"]Romans 14:3
the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them.
Rom. 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

Lev. 11:45 For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.


Colossians 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink
Col. 2:
6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. (Who created all things))

1 Timothy 4:2-3
Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.
1Tim. 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Tim.. 4:
1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.


1 Corinthians 8:8
food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.
1Cor.8:
4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Lev. 11:45 For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.


Romans 14:16-17
do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil, for the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking
Matt. 7:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (lawlessness)

Lev. 11:
45 For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.
46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:

47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

2Ti. 2:
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already (Already immortall) and overthrow the faith of some.

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.