Matthew 6:9-13
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SEE.........I knew this would happen! Seriously, Brother
I AM NOT speaking of keeping/losing salvation
I simply want to know IF when we slip up/whatever and sin AFTER we are saved, DO we need to ask for forgiveness? That's it!
Nothing about salvation being kept or lost, nothing..............
It never fails that folks will 'ADD TO' Not hollering at you, actually smiling as I type......
QUESTION: Do we need to ask for forgiveness if we sin even if we are saved?
One more question: If a person says NO......all our sins are already forgiven........then how exactly do they handle the situation? When they slip up and sin........what do they do? Seriously, I need to know this.......what are their exact steps/reactions?
Do they just blow it off? Pretend it didn't happen? Even acknowledge they did it at all? What?
THAT IS ALL I AM ASKING...........NOTHING TO DO WITH KEEPING/LOSING SALVATION
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You were doing fairly well brother until the above that you've written!
It's a straw man, a huge swath of misinformation and is inaccurate.
OSAS is a teaching derived from the perseverance of the saints, and of late it (perseverance of the saints) has been distorted through easy-believeism and Free Grace Theology.
Free Grace Theology is a theological discipline from Dallas Theological Seminary, and is false in that it teaches once a persons is "saved" no matter how they live they'll still go to heaven. Please, anyone, if you think that I am denying grace is freely given, then please reread; I'm denying the validity of the teaching from a system of theology known as Free Grace Theology, not that grace is freely given.
FGT is false because of the above fact, and for the reason it distorts perseverance of the saints, denies ongoing sanctification; 2 Corinthians 3:18; Hebrews 12:14, and distorts biblical evidence of true conversion; 2 Corinthians 13:5; 1-3 John.
Please don't make statements that broad brush with condemnation this teaching or those who teach it because of how some distort it. Thank you!
It's a straw man, a huge swath of misinformation and is inaccurate.
OSAS is a teaching derived from the perseverance of the saints, and of late it (perseverance of the saints) has been distorted through easy-believeism and Free Grace Theology.
Free Grace Theology is a theological discipline from Dallas Theological Seminary, and is false in that it teaches once a persons is "saved" no matter how they live they'll still go to heaven. Please, anyone, if you think that I am denying grace is freely given, then please reread; I'm denying the validity of the teaching from a system of theology known as Free Grace Theology, not that grace is freely given.
FGT is false because of the above fact, and for the reason it distorts perseverance of the saints, denies ongoing sanctification; 2 Corinthians 3:18; Hebrews 12:14, and distorts biblical evidence of true conversion; 2 Corinthians 13:5; 1-3 John.
Please don't make statements that broad brush with condemnation this teaching or those who teach it because of how some distort it. Thank you!
AMEN.....been saying for some time that Christ was born, lived and died UNDER THE LAW which ratified the NEW COVENANT and HIS WORDS must be interpreted in the light of this TRUTH.......OF course....ALL who teach the loss of salvation or a pseudo salvation that must be earned or maintained reject this truth......!
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You asked " Do we need to ask for forgiveness if we sin even if we are saved "
If you think we NEED to , then what happens if we dont ?
When I sin , I go boldly before the throne , and thank God that Im already forgiven , then I ask him to help me thru his spirit to do better the next time
If you think we NEED to ask for forgiveness when we sin , it implies that we need to be forgiven , but if we are saved and " in Christ " we already are forgiven
Do you realize we committ sin that we arent even aware of ?
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The apostle John has already established that baseline. And you are mistaken about those who believe in the eternal security of the believer teaching that no one has to deal with their present sins.
1 JOHN 1 & 2: WRITTEN TO BELIEVERS -- GOD'S CHILDREN
[NOTE: ONLY BELIEVERS CAN HAVE FELLOWSHIP WITH BELIEVERS AND WITH GOD]
THIS TEACHING COMES FROM CHRIST HIMSELF -- THE WORD OF LIFE
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;
OUR FELLOWSHIP IS WITH THE APOSTLES AND WITH GOD (FATHER, SON, AND HOLY SPIRIT)
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. [THE HOLY SPIRIT NOT MENTIONED BUT ALWAYS THERE]
OUR JOY IS FULL THROUGH THIS FELLOWSHIP
4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
IN GOD THERE IS NO DARKNESS (SIN AND EVIL) AT ALL
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
WE CANNOT SIN AND CLAIM TO HAVE FELLOWSHIP WITH GOD
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
WE HAVE FELLOWSHIP WHEN WE WALK IN THE LIGHT AND ARE CLEANSED CONTINUALLY
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
WE CANNOT CLAIM TO BE SINLESS
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
WE MUST CONFESS OUR SINS AND REPENT TO MAINTAIN FELLOWSHIP
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [REPENTANCE NOT MENTIONED BUT NECESSARY]
CHRIST IS OUR ADVOCATE IN HEAVEN
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
CHRIST IS OUR PROPITIATION (PERFECT SACRIFICE BEFORE GOD)
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also forthe sins of the whole world.
TO KNOW CHRIST IS TO OBEY HIM
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1 JOHN 1 & 2: WRITTEN TO BELIEVERS -- GOD'S CHILDREN
[NOTE: ONLY BELIEVERS CAN HAVE FELLOWSHIP WITH BELIEVERS AND WITH GOD]
THIS TEACHING COMES FROM CHRIST HIMSELF -- THE WORD OF LIFE
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;
OUR FELLOWSHIP IS WITH THE APOSTLES AND WITH GOD (FATHER, SON, AND HOLY SPIRIT)
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. [THE HOLY SPIRIT NOT MENTIONED BUT ALWAYS THERE]
OUR JOY IS FULL THROUGH THIS FELLOWSHIP
4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
IN GOD THERE IS NO DARKNESS (SIN AND EVIL) AT ALL
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
WE CANNOT SIN AND CLAIM TO HAVE FELLOWSHIP WITH GOD
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
WE HAVE FELLOWSHIP WHEN WE WALK IN THE LIGHT AND ARE CLEANSED CONTINUALLY
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
WE CANNOT CLAIM TO BE SINLESS
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
WE MUST CONFESS OUR SINS AND REPENT TO MAINTAIN FELLOWSHIP
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [REPENTANCE NOT MENTIONED BUT NECESSARY]
CHRIST IS OUR ADVOCATE IN HEAVEN
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
CHRIST IS OUR PROPITIATION (PERFECT SACRIFICE BEFORE GOD)
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also forthe sins of the whole world.
TO KNOW CHRIST IS TO OBEY HIM
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
I see that a little differently as those previously fatherless in respect to the Father of all spirits.The born again Spirit of God. I would think our Father in heaven has not left us as orphans without a heavenly Father to give us our daily bread.
Some repetitive prayer like ones that cries out in supplication because of our unseen anxieties. The cry out is the cry of a baby a cry for the reassurance of the Fathers love.
Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.Philipians 4: 6-7
The Son of Man in repetition cried out the same word three times . Three denotes the end of the matter throughout the scriptures. I would say no limit. Many cry out there whole life looking for the hope of a new incorruptible body.
A person, I believe could repeat the Lord's prayer over and over if the idea came to his heart just as it did when the Son of man cried out.
And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch.And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.And he cometh, and findeth them sleeping, and saith unto Peter, Simon, sleepest thou? couldest not thou watch one hour?Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.And again he went away, and prayed, and spake the same words. Mark 14: 34-39
Again I would suggest it was not the repetition that was vain but the manner....."They wanted to be heard of men as their boasting reward) it made the repetition o vain .
One manner our Father not seen.
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Mathew 6: 6-9
Some repetitive prayer like ones that cries out in supplication because of our unseen anxieties. The cry out is the cry of a baby a cry for the reassurance of the Fathers love.
Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.Philipians 4: 6-7
The Son of Man in repetition cried out the same word three times . Three denotes the end of the matter throughout the scriptures. I would say no limit. Many cry out there whole life looking for the hope of a new incorruptible body.
A person, I believe could repeat the Lord's prayer over and over if the idea came to his heart just as it did when the Son of man cried out.
And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch.And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.And he cometh, and findeth them sleeping, and saith unto Peter, Simon, sleepest thou? couldest not thou watch one hour?Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.And again he went away, and prayed, and spake the same words. Mark 14: 34-39
Again I would suggest it was not the repetition that was vain but the manner....."They wanted to be heard of men as their boasting reward) it made the repetition o vain .
One manner our Father not seen.
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Mathew 6: 6-9
Someone mentioned the OP's signature. Just took note:
"Remaining Obedient Secures Eternity"
Wow! I guess Jesus didn't secure eternity, obedience did!
That is heretical so I can see why he broad-brushes everyone into one camp within OSAS and bad mouths it with false accusations. Had to get a jab in with his OP. LOL!
Well, it must be hard and make one angry working their way to heaven!
Here is "the workers for" theme song. Enjoy!
"Remaining Obedient Secures Eternity"
Wow! I guess Jesus didn't secure eternity, obedience did!
That is heretical so I can see why he broad-brushes everyone into one camp within OSAS and bad mouths it with false accusations. Had to get a jab in with his OP. LOL!
Well, it must be hard and make one angry working their way to heaven!
Here is "the workers for" theme song. Enjoy!
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If we define sin as falling short of the glory of God, then I believe everyone sins every day. We don't make the mark.
I believe people should pray every day in the morning and at night at the very least.
In the morning to see what God wants us to do and in the evening to see what we might have done differently, to have God reveal our sins and learn from them....not to carry guilt but to be washed clean.
I believe it part of the prayer "give us our daily bread" God gives us wisdom on how to grow and change and be better people,more loving and reflecting His light.
It's easy to say and harder to be consistent and do.
So how often should someone ask for forgiveness? As often as God shows us we need to and then we should have faith that we are forgiven and more forward, not wallow in guilt but trust that the blood cleanses us.
I believe in eternal security, but I don't believe that means that we will stay as we are but that we will be transformed into who God means for us to be by following His Holy Spirit guidance.
I believe people should pray every day in the morning and at night at the very least.
In the morning to see what God wants us to do and in the evening to see what we might have done differently, to have God reveal our sins and learn from them....not to carry guilt but to be washed clean.
I believe it part of the prayer "give us our daily bread" God gives us wisdom on how to grow and change and be better people,more loving and reflecting His light.
It's easy to say and harder to be consistent and do.
So how often should someone ask for forgiveness? As often as God shows us we need to and then we should have faith that we are forgiven and more forward, not wallow in guilt but trust that the blood cleanses us.
I believe in eternal security, but I don't believe that means that we will stay as we are but that we will be transformed into who God means for us to be by following His Holy Spirit guidance.
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That isn't an answer...........yes or no, when you sin now, do you ask God to forgive you for your transgression? If NO, fine. Then tell me exactly what you DO do? Do you just blow it off? Pretend you didn't? Or what?
You said: then I ask him to help me thru his spirit to do better the next time
How is that not asking for forgiveness?
You said: then I ask him to help me thru his spirit to do better the next time
How is that not asking for forgiveness?