Pre-Trib Rapture and Premillennialism are False Doctrines

[Locutus]

Revelations chapter 5... is it seems in contrast to Matthew 24.Luke 21and Mark 13 in that the Lamb,Christ had not yet been (slain). So if none could look on it,and none were worthy to open it ect. until after "Jesus was slain" why does everyone feel that Jesus is explaining it in Matt.,Luke and Mark before he is slain?

This is confusing Bro So, yer need to be more specific.

 

[delirious]

A suggestion for several here....make sure you understand the.... 70th week of Daniel...point I can see many......do not.

I hope you are referring to the dispensationalists because they clearly do not understand Daniel's 70th week.

Daniel 9: 24 tells us six things will be accomplished during the 70 weeks prophecy. The amillennialist believes all 6 were fulfilled in Christ's generation and at the cross. The dispensationalist thinks many of them are still to be fulfilled.

Where the dispensationalist and amillennialist can agree is that the third thing which is the "atoning for iniquity" of the six things listed in Dan 9: 24 was fulfilled by Christ at the cross.

The dispensational interpretation has Jesus crucified AFTER the 69th week and BEFORE the 70th week. That is OUTSIDE the time frame of the 70 weeks. Daniel 9: 24 tells us that those 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks. That includes the "atoning for iniquity".

Therefore, the dispensational interpretation of Daniel's 70 week prophecy is proven false by Scripture in Dan 9: 24.

The 70th week followed the 69th week. There is no 7-year treaty between antichrist and Israel because the 70 weeks were fulfilled in Christ's time.

 

[iamsoandso]

This is confusing Bro So, yer need to be more specific.

The scroll with seven seals are sealed until after Jesus was slain. None are found who can look on it and none can loose it's seals until the Lamb is found worthy and the reason given is because he was slain. Everyone reads the Olivet discourse and thinks that Jesus is explaining it to answer the disciples question in Matthew 24:3 when they know the events in the Scroll were not yet loosed because Jesus had not been Crucified. I remember asking my preacher's and deacons things about this as a boy and they patted me on the head and said I would understand when I grew up,lol...

 

[Locutus]

The scroll with seven seals are sealed until after Jesus was slain. None are found who can look on it and none can loose it's seals until the Lamb is found worthy and the reason given is because he was slain. Everyone reads the Olivet discourse and thinks that Jesus is explaining it to answer the disciples question in Matthew 24:3 when they know the events in the Scroll were not yet loosed because Jesus had not been Crucified. I remember asking my preacher's and deacons things about this as a boy and they patted me on the head and said I would understand when I grew up,lol...

I can't say I know any "teachings" in regard to them applying Rev 5 to Matt 24:3 - who or what teaches that?

 

[iamsoandso]

I can't say I know any "teachings" in regard to them applying Rev 5 to Matt 24:3 - who or what teaches that?

lol, I don't know(pun) after ad70 when will the things in the seven sealed scroll be fulfilled?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The 70th week followed the 69th week. There is no 7-year treaty between antichrist and Israel because the 70 weeks were fulfilled in Christ's time.

One thing about the bold & underlined part (because I only have a minute here)… first of all, I don't see it as meaning a "treaty," and secondly, I'm not convinced that it means "between" them (as two separate parties or something), but more like possibly "along with".

Then, there's Colossians 2:16-17 (after listing some specific things) it says of them, "which ARE [present tense, plural] A SHADOW [singular] of the things coming [plural; G3195 - mellontōn - certain (to take place)]" (i.e. fulfilled futurely, not all in the past [from that perspective, in time])

 

[delirious]

One thing about the bold & underlined part (because I only have a minute here)… first of all, I don't see it as meaning a "treaty," and secondly, I'm not convinced that it means "between" them (as two separate parties or something), but more like possibly "along with".

Dispensationalists call it a "treaty" between antichrist and Israel for 7 years. That's what dispensationalists have been teaching for a long time. The proper translation is "covenant".

I have never heard a dispensationalist answer what I posted before which is:

The dispensational interpretation has Jesus crucified AFTER the 69th week and BEFORE the 70th week. That is OUTSIDE the time frame of the 70 weeks. Daniel 9: 24 tells us that those 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks. That includes the "atoning for iniquity".

This proves from Scripture in Dan 9: 24 that the 70th week followed the 69th week and is not removed to the distant future. The dispensational interpretation of the 70 weeks prophecy is proven false by Scripture in Dan 9: 24.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

One thing about the bold & underlined part (because I only have a minute here)… first of all, I don't see it as meaning a "treaty," and secondly, I'm not convinced that it means "between" them (as two separate parties or something), but more like possibly "along with".

Then, there's Colossians 2:16-17 (after listing some specific things) it says of them, "which ARE [present tense, plural] A SHADOW [singular] of the things coming [plural; G3195 - mellontōn - certain (to take place)]" (i.e. fulfilled futurely, not all in the past [from that perspective, in time])

Actually what the passage says is he confirms a covenant with the many

And he says this covenant will last for 7 years.

It is evidently a multi part treaty or contract. (Could be a contract with many nations.

Of course, he breaks his own contract in the middle of the week. So as with most contracts between nations, It is only as good as the person who is maing the contract.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dispensationalists call it a "treaty" between antichrist and Israel for 7 years. That's what dispensationalists have been teaching for a long time. The proper translation is "covenant".

I have never heard a dispensationalist answer what I posted before which is:

The dispensational interpretation has Jesus crucified AFTER the 69th week and BEFORE the 70th week. That is OUTSIDE the time frame of the 70 weeks. Daniel 9: 24 tells us that those 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks. That includes the "atoning for iniquity".

This proves from Scripture in Dan 9: 24 that the 70th week followed the 69th week and is not removed to the distant future. The dispensational interpretation of the 70 weeks prophecy is proven false by Scripture in Dan 9: 24.

Dude you need to stop lying, You have been answered numerous times. Keep this up I will be more than willing to expose your lies..

One thing I can not stand is a know it all who has to resort to lies to support his own belief

 

[delirious]

Dude you need to stop lying, You have been answered numerous times. Keep this up I will be more than willing to expose your lies..

One thing I can not stand is a know it all who has to resort to lies to support his own belief

I will copy and paste what I just said in my last post:

Dispensationalists call it a "treaty" between antichrist and Israel for 7 years. That's what dispensationalists have been teaching for a long time. The proper translation is "covenant".

I have never heard a dispensationalist answer what I posted before which is:

The dispensational interpretation has Jesus crucified AFTER the 69th week and BEFORE the 70th week. That is OUTSIDE the time frame of the 70 weeks. Daniel 9: 24 tells us that those 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks. That includes the "atoning for iniquity".

This proves from Scripture in Dan 9: 24 that the 70th week followed the 69th week and is not removed to the distant future. The dispensational interpretation of the 70 weeks prophecy is proven false by Scripture in Dan 9: 24.

Can you tell me where I lied? You are the one who is lying saying you answered me "numerous times". You did no such thing.

I think you are angry because Scripture proves the dispensational interpretation of the 70 weeks is false. My opinion and your opinion don't matter at all. It matters what the Scripture says.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I will copy and paste what I just said in my last post:



Can you tell me where I lied? You are the one who is lying saying you answered me "numerous times". You did no such thing.

I think you are angry because Scripture proves the dispensational interpretation of the 70 weeks is false. My opinion and your opinion don't matter at all. It matters what the Scripture says.

Dispensationalists call it a "treaty" between antichrist and Israel for 7 years. That's what dispensationalists have been teaching for a long time. The proper translation is "covenant".

I have never heard a dispensationalist answer what I posted before which is:

The dispensational interpretation has Jesus crucified AFTER the 69th week and BEFORE the 70th week. That is OUTSIDE the time frame of the 70 weeks. Daniel 9: 24 tells us that those 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks. That includes the "atoning for iniquity".

This proves from Scripture in Dan 9: 24 that the 70th week followed the 69th week and is not removed to the distant future. The dispensational interpretation of the 70 weeks prophecy is proven false by Scripture in Dan 9: 24.

You first asked me this in post 411

Here was my response.

The context of Dan 9 concerns davids people and city only. Amills deny this and try to twist it to be for all people.

So what has been accomplished for Israel and the city of jerusalem?

Make atonement for iniquity, That was the purpose of Jesus first advent, as the suffering servnt who would take the sins of his people

As for the rest.

- To finish transgression? Isteal is still in sin.. It has yet to be fulfilled
- make an end of sins? Israel is still in sin, Has yuet to be fulfilled
- Bring in everlasting righteousness? See last two.. Paul says when the time of the gentile is completed. All isreal will be saved, this is when it will occure
- Seal vision and prphesy? Alot of prophesy has yet to be fulfilled
- Anoint the most holy? Depends on interpretation Anoint as king in jerusalem ad promised (davidic covenant) or anoint as High priest sitting at the right hand of God.

Either way Only one of them has been fulfilled.

Now. Are you going to answer my questions? I have been fair to you and answered all your questions.. This is your last chance, Fai to answer again, or ask me more questions BEFORE you answer mine, That will be it..

I also answered it in many other posts.

Your hurting your own argument man.

1. Daniel is told, at the and (literally immediately following) the 69th week, Messiah the prince will appear.
2. We are told how messiah will come, riding on a donkey, And jerusalem is told to look for this sign.

Zechariah 9:9 [ The Coming King ] “Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation, Lowly and riding on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey.

We did not learn that from men, We learned it by SCRIPTURE ITSELF.

Dude, I gave you scripture’ As usual you ignore it then attack others.

Zech 9 says HOW Messiah will be given to her people. Dan 9 says when it will take place.

You scream scripture. Yet you ignore the scripture given you. The passages you gave does not support your view.

You may not like my answers. You may disagree with them, That does not matter

You lied and said no one ever answered you. Now you have been proven to be the lier you are.

 

[Locutus]

The way I read Dan's "confirm the covenant" is that Jesus confirmed the covenant already in place with Israel and I believe Paul is referring to that here:

Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

 

[iamsoandso]

Dispensationalists call it a "treaty" between antichrist and Israel for 7 years. That's what dispensationalists have been teaching for a long time. The proper translation is "covenant".

I have never heard a dispensationalist answer what I posted before which is:

The dispensational interpretation has Jesus crucified AFTER the 69th week and BEFORE the 70th week. That is OUTSIDE the time frame of the 70 weeks. Daniel 9: 24 tells us that those 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks. That includes the "atoning for iniquity".

This proves from Scripture in Dan 9: 24 that the 70th week followed the 69th week and is not removed to the distant future. The dispensational interpretation of the 70 weeks prophecy is proven false by Scripture in Dan 9: 24.

This brings up another question I have...
In the things you list in the 70 weeks is that their iniquity would be finished. I take that to mean that they would be in captivity under Babylon,M.Persia,Greece and then Rome and then that would be finished at the conclusion of 70 weeks. We know that Rome was the government over them in the first century.

In Jeremiah 29:5 and Isaiah 65:21 they are told to build houses and settle down because they were going into captivity. Now in Daniel 70 weeks are determined to end transgression,sin...

So Rome is over them when Jesus came and when Romans 13 and 1 Peter 2 were written why are they still suppose to honor the authority of Rome as ordained by God?

 

[Locutus]

So Rome is over them when Jesus came and when Romans 13 and 1 Peter 2 were written why are they still suppose to honor the authority of Rome as ordained by God?

Tut tut, bro, tut tut.

Paul declared us free:

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Yer still trying to fit the spiritual things of the bible into the physical.

1 Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Get out of reverse gear dear. lol

 

[iamsoandso]

Tut tut, bro, tut tut. View attachment 190460

Paul declared us free:

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Yer still trying to fit the spiritual things of the bible into the physical.

1 Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Get out of reverse gear dear. lol

lol,Oh boy!,,,render Caesars unto Caesar and God's unto God. The Jewish response is mint your own money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish_Revolt_coinage and "Jewish revolt" ,,,don't bow down to the final things in post #411 and rebel instead of finishing the time determined...

 

[Locutus]

John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

I'll have to wait till I'm seventy free. lol

 

[Locutus]

lol,Oh boy!,,,render Caesars unto Caesar and God's unto God. The Jewish response is mint your own money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish_Revolt_coinage and "Jewish revolt" ,,,don't bow down to the final things in post #411 and rebel instead of finishing the time determined...

So you don't believe Christ brought in "everlasting righteousness"??

 

[iamsoandso]

So you don't believe Christ brought in "everlasting righteousness"??

sure I do, what does everlasting righteousness mean to you in a prophecy to them about 70 weeks?

 

[Locutus]

sure I do, what does everlasting righteousness mean to you in a prophecy to them about 70 weeks?

Just got back from the store.

Good - so do I - Christ's sacrifice brought it in but was thoroughly established in the destruction of the law.

Phil 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Once the law was gone so was that "which is of the law".

 

[iamsoandso]

Just got back from the store.

Good - so do I - Christ's sacrifice brought it in but was thoroughly established in the destruction of the law.

Phil 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Once the law was gone so was that "which is of the law".

When do you think it was gone?