Pre-Trib Rapture and Premillennialism are False Doctrines
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lol, no I ask what your definition of everlasting righteousness was then you brought up Phil. 3:9 and it being Pauls own according to the law(Moses) so I ask when you see it as gone.
In Acts 15 they spoke of this also as to if the gentiles were to be circumcised and follow the law and after that Paul went to Jerusalem and James suggested he honor certain ordinances of the law,and he did so when in time do you see it as "gone"?
lol, It's an odd thing though isn't it that Paul shaves his head and complies to James suggestion to comply to the law in their own righteousness if it were gone at that time,,,it's like saying they had a counsel in Jerusalem in ad 50(approx) over circumcision of the gentiles and following the law and nobody brings up that it"s no issue because they thought everyone was under the new covenant but no one did...
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Hebrews stated that the old was passing away - and in there is the detail of all the washings, temple rituals etc.
Heb 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
So while that tabernacle was still standing it would seem the law had not be annulled but was waxing old:
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
I believe the above is related to this:
Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
The seven plagues etc are tied in with the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem - ya know, the whore's city.
Heb 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
So while that tabernacle was still standing it would seem the law had not be annulled but was waxing old:
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
I believe the above is related to this:
Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
The seven plagues etc are tied in with the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem - ya know, the whore's city.
There was a transition period of one generation when both the Old and New covenants were followed. In reality the Old covenant ended with Christs death and resurrection but time was allowed for the Jews to repent and the Church to be fully established. If the
Old covenant and its laws were to continue then the Temple wouldn't have been destroyed and the whole OT system would still be
observed today.
Old covenant and its laws were to continue then the Temple wouldn't have been destroyed and the whole OT system would still be
observed today.
You said this...
The context of Dan 9 concerns davids people and city only. Amills deny this and try to twist it to be for all people.
So what has been accomplished for Israel and the city of jerusalem?
Make atonement for iniquity, That was the purpose of Jesus first advent, as the suffering servnt who would take the sins of his people
I did not lie. You said you answered it "numerous times". You never answered it you just think you did for some reason. That reply about "Amills deny this and try to twist it to be for all people" is not an answer to what I presented.
I said....
Your non-answer of "Amills deny this and try to twist it to be for all people" is not an answer to the quote above.
No, you didn't answer it.
I never said "that you never answered me". What I actually said was this...
I said you never answered me "numerous times" in regard to Daniel 9: 24-27. Not that you "never answered me" like you twisted my words and falsely claimed.
I showed above that you still have not provided an answer to the Scripture I provided that proves the 70th week was already fulfilled by Christ. Here is the statement again since you have never answered it:
"The dispensational interpretation has Jesus crucified AFTER the 69th week and BEFORE the 70th week. That is OUTSIDE the time frame of the 70 weeks. Daniel 9: 24 tells us that those 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks. That includes the "atoning for iniquity".
This proves from Scripture in Dan 9: 24 that the 70th week followed the 69th week and is not removed to the distant future. The dispensational interpretation of the 70 weeks prophecy is proven false by Scripture in Dan 9: 24. "
The reason you can't answer it is because Scripture clearly proves that the 70th week happened right after the 69th week.
You have no answer for that. I don't mean to sound contentious but lets stop with the name calling and actually try to answer what the Scripture says. I'm not here to call you names or have you call me names. Let's get to the truth of what the Scripture says.
Can you answer the statement just above this that is in bold?
The context of Dan 9 concerns davids people and city only. Amills deny this and try to twist it to be for all people.
So what has been accomplished for Israel and the city of jerusalem?
Make atonement for iniquity, That was the purpose of Jesus first advent, as the suffering servnt who would take the sins of his people
I did not lie. You said you answered it "numerous times". You never answered it you just think you did for some reason. That reply about "Amills deny this and try to twist it to be for all people" is not an answer to what I presented.
I said....
Your non-answer of "Amills deny this and try to twist it to be for all people" is not an answer to the quote above.
No, you didn't answer it.
I never said "that you never answered me". What I actually said was this...
I said you never answered me "numerous times" in regard to Daniel 9: 24-27. Not that you "never answered me" like you twisted my words and falsely claimed.
I showed above that you still have not provided an answer to the Scripture I provided that proves the 70th week was already fulfilled by Christ. Here is the statement again since you have never answered it:
"The dispensational interpretation has Jesus crucified AFTER the 69th week and BEFORE the 70th week. That is OUTSIDE the time frame of the 70 weeks. Daniel 9: 24 tells us that those 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks. That includes the "atoning for iniquity".
This proves from Scripture in Dan 9: 24 that the 70th week followed the 69th week and is not removed to the distant future. The dispensational interpretation of the 70 weeks prophecy is proven false by Scripture in Dan 9: 24. "
The reason you can't answer it is because Scripture clearly proves that the 70th week happened right after the 69th week.
You have no answer for that. I don't mean to sound contentious but lets stop with the name calling and actually try to answer what the Scripture says. I'm not here to call you names or have you call me names. Let's get to the truth of what the Scripture says.
Can you answer the statement just above this that is in bold?
Daniel 9: 24 lists six things that will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks prophecy. I wanted to ask you a question.
Do you think ALL of those six things can be accomplished without the cross?
If you say yes, you have a works gospel which would obviously be a false gospel.
If you say no, you have the same problem the dispensationalist has which I will copy below:
The dispensational interpretation has Jesus crucified AFTER the 69th week and BEFORE the 70th week. That is OUTSIDE the time frame of the 70 weeks. Daniel 9: 24 tells us that those 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks.
This proves from Scripture in Dan 9: 24 that the 70th week followed the 69th week and is not removed to the distant future. The dispensational interpretation of the 70 weeks prophecy is proven false by Scripture in Dan 9: 24.
Do you think ALL of those six things can be accomplished without the cross?
If you say yes, you have a works gospel which would obviously be a false gospel.
If you say no, you have the same problem the dispensationalist has which I will copy below:
The dispensational interpretation has Jesus crucified AFTER the 69th week and BEFORE the 70th week. That is OUTSIDE the time frame of the 70 weeks. Daniel 9: 24 tells us that those 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks.
This proves from Scripture in Dan 9: 24 that the 70th week followed the 69th week and is not removed to the distant future. The dispensational interpretation of the 70 weeks prophecy is proven false by Scripture in Dan 9: 24.
I should correct my last reply to you. You only have the same problem as the dispensationalist if you have the 70th week removed from the 69th week and not following it immediately.
I think you have stated before that you believe the 70th week immediately followed the 69th week. If that is the case, then you have the correct interpretation.
I think you have stated before that you believe the 70th week immediately followed the 69th week. If that is the case, then you have the correct interpretation.
E
You need to go all the way back to lev 26. The final punishment for there sin is total destruction of the city and temple (accomplished by Syria (Israel) Babylon (Judah) and Rome (AD 70, and that they would be scattered throughout ALL the nations, (Actually only accomplished by rome AD 70)
Jeremiah said they would be in captivity from babylon for 70 years (They still had a presence and even a king in Israel, Their king was eventually killed bit they were still in their land, only as prisoners) Daniels prayer was that the 70 years was over, and Israel was still in sin, Accordingn to lev 26, he was praying for his people.
Lev 26:
But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me,
41 and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies;
if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt—
42 then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember;
I will remember the land.
This was daniels prayer. As we see from Daniel 9,
Dan 9:
Then I set my face toward the Lord God to make request by prayer and supplications, with fasting, sackcloth, and ashes. 4 And I prayed to the Lord my God, and made confession, and said, “O Lord, great and awesome God, who keeps His covenant and mercy with those who love Him, and with those who keep His commandments, 5 we have sinned and committed iniquity, we have done wickedly and rebelled, even by departing from Your precepts and Your judgments. 6 Neither have we heeded Your servants the prophets, who spoke in Your name to our kings and our princes, to our fathers and all the people of the land. 7 O Lord, righteousness belongs to You, but to us shame of face, as it is this day—to the men of Judah, to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all Israel, those near and those far off in all the countries to which You have driven them, because of the unfaithfulness which they have committed against You.
8 “O Lord, to us belongs shame of face, to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, because we have sinned against You. 9 To the Lord our God belong mercy and forgiveness, though we have rebelled against Him. 10 We have not obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in His laws, which He set before us by His servants the prophets. 11 Yes, all Israel has transgressed Your law, and has departed so as not to obey Your voice; therefore the curse and the oath written in the Law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out on us, because we have sinned against Him. 12 And He has confirmed His words, which He spoke against us and against our judges who judged us, by bringing upon us a great disaster; for under the whole heaven such has never been done as what has been done to Jerusalem.
13 “As it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come upon us; yet we have not made our prayer before the Lord our God, that we might turn from our iniquities and understand Your truth. 14 Therefore the Lord has kept the disaster in mind, and brought it upon us; for the Lord our God is righteous in all the works which He does, though we have not obeyed His voice. 15 And now, O Lord our God, who brought Your people out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and made Yourself a name, as it is this day—we have sinned, we have done wickedly!
This is the context of Daniel’s prayer and of Gabriel’s Answer
Daniel was praying for God to be mercyful, and not forget his covenant.
Dan 9: 16 “O Lord, according to all Your righteousness, I pray, let Your anger and Your fury be turned away from Your city Jerusalem, Your holy mountain; because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Your people are a reproach to all those around us. 17 Now therefore, our God, hear the prayer of Your servant, and his supplications, and for the Lord’s sake [a]cause Your face to shine on [b]Your sanctuary, which is desolate. 18 O my God, incline Your ear and hear; open Your eyes and see our desolations, and the city which is called by Your name; for we do not present our supplications before You because of our righteous deeds, but because of Your great mercies. 19 O Lord, hear! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, listen and act! Do not delay for Your own sake, my God, for Your city and Your people are called by Your name.”
The 70 weak prophesy was Gods answer to daniel.
Although Daniel will never see it, The city will be rebuilt, The people will live in the land, The messiah will come, The messiah will be killed. The temple will be destroyed again, and it will remain desolate for many years while wars and desolations continue, A future prince will confirm a covenant, He will break that covenant in the middle of the week, by commiting an abomination of desolation. But he will only be aloud to rule for a time, At the end of this period. Your people will repent. The iniquity will have been completed. Their sins will have been forgotten (again see lev 26) Prophesy concerning Israel will be complete. And what God promised to the fathers will have been completely fulfilled (all covenants)
Then we can look at other prophecies concerning these times (How Messiah will be presented to Isreal as king, what happens after tha abomination of desolation, the gentile beast system,and Gods retoration of Israel after she repents) and we get a clear picture of gods plan through the ages past present and future.
Jeremiah said they would be in captivity from babylon for 70 years (They still had a presence and even a king in Israel, Their king was eventually killed bit they were still in their land, only as prisoners) Daniels prayer was that the 70 years was over, and Israel was still in sin, Accordingn to lev 26, he was praying for his people.
Lev 26:
But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me,
41 and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies;
if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt—
42 then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember;
I will remember the land.
This was daniels prayer. As we see from Daniel 9,
Dan 9:
Then I set my face toward the Lord God to make request by prayer and supplications, with fasting, sackcloth, and ashes. 4 And I prayed to the Lord my God, and made confession, and said, “O Lord, great and awesome God, who keeps His covenant and mercy with those who love Him, and with those who keep His commandments, 5 we have sinned and committed iniquity, we have done wickedly and rebelled, even by departing from Your precepts and Your judgments. 6 Neither have we heeded Your servants the prophets, who spoke in Your name to our kings and our princes, to our fathers and all the people of the land. 7 O Lord, righteousness belongs to You, but to us shame of face, as it is this day—to the men of Judah, to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all Israel, those near and those far off in all the countries to which You have driven them, because of the unfaithfulness which they have committed against You.
8 “O Lord, to us belongs shame of face, to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, because we have sinned against You. 9 To the Lord our God belong mercy and forgiveness, though we have rebelled against Him. 10 We have not obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in His laws, which He set before us by His servants the prophets. 11 Yes, all Israel has transgressed Your law, and has departed so as not to obey Your voice; therefore the curse and the oath written in the Law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out on us, because we have sinned against Him. 12 And He has confirmed His words, which He spoke against us and against our judges who judged us, by bringing upon us a great disaster; for under the whole heaven such has never been done as what has been done to Jerusalem.
13 “As it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come upon us; yet we have not made our prayer before the Lord our God, that we might turn from our iniquities and understand Your truth. 14 Therefore the Lord has kept the disaster in mind, and brought it upon us; for the Lord our God is righteous in all the works which He does, though we have not obeyed His voice. 15 And now, O Lord our God, who brought Your people out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and made Yourself a name, as it is this day—we have sinned, we have done wickedly!
This is the context of Daniel’s prayer and of Gabriel’s Answer
Daniel was praying for God to be mercyful, and not forget his covenant.
Dan 9: 16 “O Lord, according to all Your righteousness, I pray, let Your anger and Your fury be turned away from Your city Jerusalem, Your holy mountain; because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Your people are a reproach to all those around us. 17 Now therefore, our God, hear the prayer of Your servant, and his supplications, and for the Lord’s sake [a]cause Your face to shine on [b]Your sanctuary, which is desolate. 18 O my God, incline Your ear and hear; open Your eyes and see our desolations, and the city which is called by Your name; for we do not present our supplications before You because of our righteous deeds, but because of Your great mercies. 19 O Lord, hear! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, listen and act! Do not delay for Your own sake, my God, for Your city and Your people are called by Your name.”
The 70 weak prophesy was Gods answer to daniel.
Although Daniel will never see it, The city will be rebuilt, The people will live in the land, The messiah will come, The messiah will be killed. The temple will be destroyed again, and it will remain desolate for many years while wars and desolations continue, A future prince will confirm a covenant, He will break that covenant in the middle of the week, by commiting an abomination of desolation. But he will only be aloud to rule for a time, At the end of this period. Your people will repent. The iniquity will have been completed. Their sins will have been forgotten (again see lev 26) Prophesy concerning Israel will be complete. And what God promised to the fathers will have been completely fulfilled (all covenants)
Then we can look at other prophecies concerning these times (How Messiah will be presented to Isreal as king, what happens after tha abomination of desolation, the gentile beast system,and Gods retoration of Israel after she repents) and we get a clear picture of gods plan through the ages past present and future.
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