Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
I'm going to interject my cynicism here about seminaries, some churches, some denominations, etc. 7 years ago, my husband lost his one and only daughter (no need to go into details) and not one of the 3 pastors from our church showed up on our doorsteps. We did have some Christians friends who did. Excuses were made for those pastors but none good enough for me. My bitterness is showing but I really do not care. I place my trust in the Word of God and in the knowledge of Jesus Christ my savior. That's on the only one I do trust.
For sure tragic about the loss of his daughter....give my condolences.......and I also want to add a thought If I may.....Pastors/Preachers are men that fail, have short comings and do not always meet our expectations of what they should do or say....It makes me think of the words....LET love cover a multitude of sin. We often forget the level of expectation and pressure that is placed upon those who lead and too often we lift the up to a place they should not be lifted to.....

A true story.....I had a man once move against me and attempt to destroy my ministry because I was in Little Rock Arkansas for my handicapped son to have his 11th surgery in Children's Hospital and did not make the funeral of his grandson in Mountain Home Arkansas who had never been to church and had died of a drug overdose.......some three hours away by car......
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
Following his encounter with the rich young man, Jesus makes the comment that it's easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a needle than to enter the kingdom. His disciples were shocked and asked, “Who then can be saved?” (Matthew 19:25). In other words, “If not a rich man, then there’s no hope for anyone else?” In a culture where wealth was presumed to be an indication of God’s favor and blessing, Jesus’ assertion was clear. Wealth is not a sign of God’s favor.
also, if not a man who has kept the commandments since his youth . . ?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
also, if not a man who has kept the commandments since his youth . . ?
AMEN.........and yet we constantly have those who peddle some law keeping/commandment keeping drivel.......as if that which proves your guilt will deem you righteous before God

Therefore we concluded that Abraham was justified by FAITH without the deeds/works of the law.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
AMEN.........and yet we constantly have those who peddle some law keeping/commandment keeping drivel.......as if that which proves your guilt will deem you righteous before God

Therefore we concluded that Abraham was justified by FAITH without the deeds/works of the law.
with man this is impossible,
but with God all things are possible
hallelujah!!
 

ljs

Member
Jan 13, 2018
310
443
63
A False Gospel ALWAYS has conditions attached

We are saved instantly when we believe and put our trust in the Death , Burial , and Resurrection of Christ as payment for our sins
1st Corinthians 15 1-4

Religion always adds something to it !
What Jesus Christ did for us is sufficient to save us !
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,483
13,422
113
58
A False Gospel ALWAYS has conditions attached

We are saved instantly when we believe and put our trust in the Death , Burial , and Resurrection of Christ as payment for our sins
1st Corinthians 15 1-4
Amen! Either we are trusting 100% in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (Christ's finished work of redemption) as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28) or else we are 100% lost. Works salvation is NO SALVATION AT ALL.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
A False Gospel ALWAYS has conditions attached

We are saved instantly when we believe and put our trust in the Death , Burial , and Resurrection of Christ as payment for our sins
1st Corinthians 15 1-4

Religion always adds something to it !
What Jesus Christ did for us is sufficient to save us !
Amen and words of wisdom found in the simplicity found in Christ...keep swinging :)
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
="mailmandan, post: 3772589, member: 193497"]It sounds to me like you basically believe the entire Bible is the gospel. :unsure:
There it is Dan. Statements like this is why me and others question your religion. It seems You don't believe in all the inspired Word's of the Christ of the Bible. Like the Pharisees before you, you don't believe "ALL" that is written.

I know you will no agree, but for others reading along. Think about this foundational doctrine of Mainstream Religions.

"It sounds to me like you basically believe the entire Bible is the gospel. :unsure:"

What did the Christ of the Bible inspire to be said about Scriptures?

"Man does not live by bread alone, but by Every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God"

2 Tim. 3:
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Acts 26:
13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Dan doesn't believe all the Sayings of the Christ. His Christ didn't have any sayings until He became Flesh. The Pharisees, the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time, also didn't believe all the "sayings" of the Christ. He had His Gospel written for everyone in the scriptures mentioned above, but the Mainstream Preachers of His Time didn't believe much of what was written and neither does the Mainstream Preachers of our time.

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

The entire Law and Prophets teach of the "death, burial and resurrection" of the Christ. But you reject why He even went through all this. As it is written, His Gospel is there so "That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time had a gospel, it just wasn't the Gospel of Christ the Law and Prophets taught. They didn't believe "EVERY" Word of God, therefore they didn't believe when the Word of God became Flesh as prophesied. As Paul began his ministry explaining.

Rom. 1:
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein (Law and Prophets, the only scriptures available to Paul) is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. (Old Testament verse)

18 For the wrath of God is revealed (In the Gospel of Christ) from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

" The Wise Men knew, Zechariahs knew, Anna knew, Simeon knew, these all knew the Gospel of Christ and followed it."

The Mainstream God of Abraham teaching Preachers of the time were also shown, they just didn't believe.

"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."

Not the long haired image of the Christ created by the religions of the World, but the Holy Invisible Christ of the Bible, the Word of God which became Flesh, died and was raised from the dead and is now sitting at the Right hand of God.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,483
13,422
113
58
There it is Dan. Statements like this is why me and others question your religion. It seems You don't believe in all the inspired Word's of the Christ of the Bible. Like the Pharisees before you, you don't believe "ALL" that is written.

I know you will no agree, but for others reading along. Think about this foundational doctrine of Mainstream Religions.

"It sounds to me like you basically believe the entire Bible is the gospel. :unsure:"

What did the Christ of the Bible inspire to be said about Scriptures?

"Man does not live by bread alone, but by Every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God"

2 Tim. 3:
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Acts 26:
13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Dan doesn't believe all the Sayings of the Christ. His Christ didn't have any sayings until He became Flesh. The Pharisees, the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time, also didn't believe all the "sayings" of the Christ. He had His Gospel written for everyone in the scriptures mentioned above, but the Mainstream Preachers of His Time didn't believe much of what was written and neither does the Mainstream Preachers of our time.

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

The entire Law and Prophets teach of the "death, burial and resurrection" of the Christ. But you reject why He even went through all this. As it is written, His Gospel is there so "That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time had a gospel, it just wasn't the Gospel of Christ the Law and Prophets taught. They didn't believe "EVERY" Word of God, therefore they didn't believe when the Word of God became Flesh as prophesied. As Paul began his ministry explaining.

Rom. 1:
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein (Law and Prophets, the only scriptures available to Paul) is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. (Old Testament verse)

18 For the wrath of God is revealed (In the Gospel of Christ) from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

" The Wise Men knew, Zechariahs knew, Anna knew, Simeon knew, these all knew the Gospel of Christ and followed it."

The Mainstream God of Abraham teaching Preachers of the time were also shown, they just didn't believe.

"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."

Not the long haired image of the Christ created by the religions of the World, but the Holy Invisible Christ of the Bible, the Word of God which became Flesh, died and was raised from the dead and is now sitting at the Right hand of God.
Same old straw man arguments accompanied by slander. Who do you think you’re fooling? :rolleyes:
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,329
6,696
113
Same old straw man arguments accompanied by slander. Who do you think you’re fooling? :rolleyes:
remember, the same guy who says this also once said " Christians do not need to feed poor people , God can provide them manna if he wants them to have food ".

so, according to this reasoning, the rich man in the Lazarus and the rich man parable got a bad deal, huh?
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,582
2,046
113
North Carolina
For sure tragic about the loss of his daughter....give my condolences.......and I also want to add a thought If I may.....Pastors/Preachers are men that fail, have short comings and do not always meet our expectations of what they should do or say....It makes me think of the words....LET love cover a multitude of sin. We often forget the level of expectation and pressure that is placed upon those who lead and too often we lift the up to a place they should not be lifted to.....

A true story.....I had a man once move against me and attempt to destroy my ministry because I was in Little Rock Arkansas for my handicapped son to have his 11th surgery in Children's Hospital and did not make the funeral of his grandson in Mountain Home Arkansas who had never been to church and had died of a drug overdose.......some three hours away by car......

I understand your position and your post. The fault of my deep cynicism lies within my own heart. I struggle with it. This church my husband has been a lifelong member of all his life and I became a member of is a huge church. Being raised in a small country church I really don't see how any pastor of a large church can possibly be the shepherd for all his members. An undertaking which I believe to be impossible. That is why I prefer a smaller congregation. However, when a church has one main pastor, 2 assistant pastors, then someone somehow dropped the ball.

Now the chasm in my heart is something God will have to help me sort out and I have full confidence that He will, with time. I guess my point is that we must place any and all trust into God and not man.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,582
2,046
113
North Carolina
In my devotion this morning, I ran across this: God does not want us to be so engrossed with our works that we forget our focus should be on Him. We know our works can fail but our focus on God will not." Just saying!
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Same old straw man arguments accompanied by slander. Who do you think you’re fooling? :rolleyes:
It's your preaching Dan. It is your statements. It's not slander to point out their opposition to the Word of God. Everyone thinks they are saved. Eve was convinced, the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time were convinced. You are convinced. But the Christ of the Bible is VERY CLEAR. Not everyone who claims to be saved, are saved. I have, for over a year, tried to engage in an unbiased conversation about who receives His Grace and who doesn't, not according to the Popes religion, or yours, but according to the Word of God.. I have asked you question after question that you refuse to answer.

You can hide behind your "Straw Man" if you like, you are free to do so. But that will not change the Word of God which will judge us all in "that day".
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Psalms 52:4
Thou lovest all devouring words, O [thou] deceitful tongue.

John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on Me hath everlasting life.
Matt. 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

Matt. 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Lawlessness)

Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on Me hath everlasting life
 

ljs

Member
Jan 13, 2018
310
443
63
In my devotion this morning, I ran across this: God does not want us to be so engrossed with our works that we forget our focus should be on Him. We know our works can fail but our focus on God will not." Just saying!
Amen star :)
alot of people dont get that Im sorry to say
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
Amen and words of wisdom found in the simplicity found in Christ...keep swinging :)
The Lord preserves the simple; when I was brought low, he saved me.
Psalm116:6

Hi decon again I say amen!, "the simplicity found in Christ" Some workers plus grace salvation people would have everyone add works to the finished work of Christ. Serving our God comes from the love of God shed abroad in our hearts "after" we are born again, believe in Jesus Christ and you will be saved, the simplicity of the Gospel.

2Corinthians1:12
For our boast is this, the testimony of our conscience, that we behaved in the world with simplicity and godly sincerity, not by earthly wisdom but by the grace of God, and supremely so toward you.

Romans5:5
And hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on Me hath everlasting life
didn't we do mighty works? they pleaded.
these didn't say, '
didn't we look to you and put our trust in you?' - those who say this, will never be put to shame.

do you believe Him yet?

this is the record:
that God hath given to us eternal life,
and this life is in His Son.
(1 John 5:11)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
That inability to comprehend sadly is on this site/thread/posts. Yes, it is sad
isn't it like this --

The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say,
'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.'
(Luke 7:34)

they slanderously call us lawless because we confess the grace of God, and we rejoice in His freedom, and know that we are saved and kept by His mercy.
i am honored to bear such vitriol :)