The Lord's creation of man, a spiritual being, or a carnal being?

[luigi]

In Genesis we read that the Lord created Adam, the first man, in His image (Genesis 1:26).
We know that the Lord is a spirit (John 4:24), and therefore His image in man would be a spiritual image.
We further know that God is Love (1 John 4:8 & 16), and therefore Adam would have been created in the image of Love.
Confirming that the life in Adam the Lord created was a spiritual semblance of Himself in love, we have the Lord stating to Adam that on the day he eats of the fruit of the tree of knowledge that he would surely die (Genesis 2:17).
We know that after Adam ate of the tree of knowledge that his physical body continued to live for several hundred more years, thereby indicating Adam's death on the day he transgressed being a spiritual death from the spiritual life the lord created in him.
With all this data in scriptures pointing to the Lords creation in Adam being spiritual, how then is it that there are so many here who claim the Lords creation of Adam being the carnal man?

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

 

[Noose]

The image being spoken of is 'authority'. Adam and Eve were given authority over all creation.

 

[luigi]

The image being spoken of is 'authority'. Adam and Eve were given authority over all creation.

I provided the Lords Word that describes the Lord as a spirit, and is love.
This description of the Lord, spiritually minded individuals can understand, whereas the carnal cannot.

 

[Noose]

I provided the Lords Word that describes the Lord as a spirit, and is love.
This description of the Lord, spiritually minded individuals can understand, whereas the carnal cannot.

I get what you are saying but someday you will also get what i'm saying.

 

[maxwel]

In Genesis we read that the Lord created Adam, the first man, in His image (Genesis 1:26).
We know that the Lord is a spirit (John 4:24), and therefore His image in man would be a spiritual image.
We further know that God is Love (1 John 4:8 & 16), and therefore Adam would have been created in the image of Love.
Confirming that the life in Adam the Lord created was a spiritual semblance of Himself in love, we have the Lord stating to Adam that on the day he eats of the fruit of the tree of knowledge that he would surely die (Genesis 2:17).
We know that after Adam ate of the tree of knowledge that his physical body continued to live for several hundred more years, thereby indicating Adam's death on the day he transgressed being a spiritual death from the spiritual life the lord created in him.
With all this data in scriptures pointing to the Lords creation in Adam being spiritual, how then is it that there are so many here who claim the Lords creation of Adam being the carnal man?

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

I'm going to sum up your thesis for clarity; please tell me if I'm restating it accurately.



If Adam's death was merely a spiritual death,
why would we think Adam's creation was anything more than a spiritual creation?






...

 

[luigi]

I'm going to sum up your thesis for clarity; please tell me if I'm restating it accurately.



If Adam's death was merely a spiritual death,
why would we think Adam's creation was anything more than a spiritual creation?






...

In synopsis and skipping over the Word of the Lord which I used to support my perspective; Yes, why would we think Adam's creation was anything more than a spiritual creation?

 

[maxwel]

In synopsis and skipping over the Word of the Lord which I used to support my perspective; Yes, why would we think Adam's creation was anything more than a spiritual creation?

Thank you clarifying.



So, are you proposing that Adam came into being through evolutionary means, and then one day God picked him out from other similar creatures, and reached down, and imbued him with the Imago Dei... as in giving him a spiritual component, like a soul or something?

Is that more or less where you're going with this?


...

 

[glf1]

1 Cor 15: 46 "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual."

 

[luigi]

Thank you clarifying.



So, are you proposing that Adam came into being through evolutionary means, and then one day God picked him out from other similar creatures, and reached down, and imbued him with the Imago Dei... as in giving him a spiritual component, like a soul or something?

Is that more or less where you're going with this?


...

To answer your question I need to address a couple of issues.
I do not believe in evolution as the predominant scientific model for evolution proposes.
As a matter of fact, even honest evolutionary scientists will tell you there are numerous problems with the evolutionary theory in its current form.
About ten years ago a scientific article appeared indicating how the genetic information in chimpanzees now indicates there would need to be 300 million years in evolution for chimpanzees to evolve in humans. The previous theory was that it took 6 million years from chimpanzee to human.
What I believe in therefore, is the Lord writing code into animals DNA in order to effect change.
So to answer your question, yes, I am proposing that Adam the physical man came into being through the Lords genetic modification of Homo sapiens.
That, however, was only Adam's physical being and not His spiritual being in the image of God.

 

[maxwel]

To answer your question I need to address a couple of issues.
I do not believe in evolution as the predominant scientific model for evolution proposes.
As a matter of fact, even honest evolutionary scientists will tell you there are numerous problems with the evolutionary theory in its current form.
About ten years ago a scientific article appeared indicating how the genetic information in chimpanzees now indicates there would need to be 300 million years in evolution for chimpanzees to evolve in humans. The previous theory was that it took 6 million years from chimpanzee to human.
What I believe in therefore, is the Lord writing code into animals DNA in order to effect change.
So to answer your question, yes, I am proposing that Adam the physical man came into being through the Lords genetic modification of Homo sapiens.
That, however, was only Adam's physical being and not His spiritual being in the image of God.

Clarification:

1. You're proposing a type of theistic evolution, where evolution brought man into being gradually, over a long period of time, but God was actively involved in the evolutionary process?

2. You also propose that at some point in time, God picked Adam out from among other similar creatures, and imbued him with the Imago Dei?


Is that roughly what you're saying?


...

 

[Zmouth]

We know that the Lord is a spirit (John 4:24),

The word 'spirit' is derived from the Latin 'spiritus' which is derived from the Greek word 'pnuema' having the same meaning as wind, or moving air, i.e. the breath of life. [https://biblehub.com/greek/4151.htm]

So Adam being a fully formed physical being did not become a living soul until the LORD God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.

And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: 22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
Gen 7:21-22

While the scriptures make no distinction between the breath of life and the spirit, yet the term 'soul' has a different implication than the term spirit.

• This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.1 John 1:5
• "... the image of the invisible God, ..." Col 1:15

Yes, why would we think Adam's creation was anything more than a spiritual creation?

Maybe because Adam was a physical being of flesh?

 

[luigi]

Clarification:

1. You're proposing a type of theistic evolution, where evolution brought man into being gradually, over a long period of time, but God was actively involved in the evolutionary process?.

Yes, a theistic evolution as in Isaiah 65:25

Isaiah 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.

2. You also propose that at some point in time, God picked Adam out from among other similar creatures, and imbued him with the Imago Dei?.


Is that roughly what you're saying?


...

Yes, that is my perspective. Not only do scriptures corroborate my perspective, but so too does the fossil record.

 

[Nehemiah6]

With all this data in scriptures pointing to the Lords creation in Adam being spiritual, how then is it that there are so many here who claim the Lords creation of Adam being the carnal man?

Adam was created as a perfect being in the image of God. That included his ability to freely choose between good and evil, obedience and disobedience. He chose to disobey God, and thus died spiritually. Then he was cast out of Eden. The Bible does not call him either spiritual, or carnal, or natural. Simply disobedient. See Romans 5.

However, when it comes to Christians (those who have the indwelling Holy Spirit) they can either be spiritual or carnal, depending on whether they are walking in the Spirit or walking after the flesh (the sin nature). However those without the Holy Spirit are *natural* (born with a dead spirit) and therefore need to be born again, or born of the Spirit.

 

[luigi]

The word 'spirit' is derived from the Latin 'spiritus' which is derived from the Greek word 'pnuema' having the same meaning as wind, or moving air, i.e. the breath of life. [https://biblehub.com/greek/4151.htm]

John 4:24 is not describing the wind, moving air, or the breath of life, as God the Spirit.
Do we worship the wind, moving air, or the breath of life?

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

So Adam being a fully formed physical being did not become a living soul until the LORD God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.

If you take a look at Genesis 1, you will notice that all the Lord creates are described as living creatures until Adam; Adam did not become a living creature, he became a living soul.
Adam also died the day he ate of the tree of knowledge.
Did Adam's living soul physically die or did he spiritually die?

Maybe because Adam was a physical being of flesh?

We know Adam was a physical being of flesh; but what you are implying is the Lords creation of Adam's living soul was simply a carnal creation.

 

[maxwel]

Yes, a theistic evolution as in Isaiah 65:25

Isaiah 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.

Yes, that is my perspective. Not only do scriptures corroborate my perspective, but so too does the fossil record.

Well, it's fine to have your view... but there may be some debate about this being either in scripture or in the fossil record.


So far in this thread, you've made quite a number of varied and controversial propositions.
I'm not sure where to begin.

Let's just start with the above post: please explain how Is.65:25 shows evolution.




...

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Adam was created from the earth. and God breathed life into him.

why is this so hard to understand?

not going to respond to any other 'insight' that clearly refutes the understanding provided by scripture

I will say though, that the word carnal does not apply to flesh and blood. your flesh does what your soul tells it to do

if you are 'spiritual', then you are following after your understanding as renewed by the Holy Spirit/scripture

we are a tripartate being and most of us here believe that is a reflection of God saying 'let US make man in our image' I do not believe God is one being with 3 parts though, to be clear, but rather 3 distinct beings who are one (in all they do...they agree)

 

[7seasrekeyed]

John 4:24 is not describing the wind, moving air, or the breath of life, as God the Spirit.
Do we worship the wind, moving air, or the breath of life?

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

If you take a look at Genesis 1, you will notice that all the Lord creates are described as living creatures until Adam; Adam did not become a living creature, he became a living soul.
Adam also died the day he ate of the tree of knowledge.
Did Adam's living soul physically die or did he spiritually die?



We know Adam was a physical being of flesh; but what you are implying is the Lords creation of Adam's living soul was simply a carnal creation.

it is actually your own lack of understanding that considers God's creation as carnal

you are basically saying God created a carnal human being and dismissing the account that invoked punishment because of disobedience

in fact, you have a very distorted understanding and I don't know why. it's just really really bad.

 

[luigi]

Well, it's fine to have your view... but there may be some debate about this being either in scripture or in the fossil record.


So far in this thread, you've made quite a number of varied and controversial propositions.
I'm not sure where to begin.

Let's just start with the above post: please explain how Is.65:25 shows evolution.




...

Lion's eating straw, what needs explaining?

 

[luigi]

Adam was created from the earth. and God breathed life into him.

why is this so hard to understand?

not going to respond to any other 'insight' that clearly refutes the understanding provided by scripture

I will say though, that the word carnal does not apply to flesh and blood. your flesh does what your soul tells it to do

if you are 'spiritual', then you are following after your understanding as renewed by the Holy Spirit/scripture

we are a tripartate being and most of us here believe that is a reflection of God saying 'let US make man in our image' I do not believe God is one being with 3 parts though, to be clear, but rather 3 distinct beings who are one (in all they do...they agree)

All creatures were created from the earth, including Homo sapiens, from whom Adam derived.

 

[Locutus]

He was a flesh being as are we.