Question(s) to those who believe salvation can be lost

[Epiales]

It depends on what you are trying to say with quoting the verse. Are you saying that you are sinlessly perfect? or are you saying that a Christian is incapable of sinning in their spirit--the inner sanctum where God dwells?

What appears to be simple and easily understood is not always so.

No such thing as sinless perfection. It simply states that we cannot sin b/c God's seed is within us; the Spirit. The Spirit cannot sin! We can still sin, and do sin all the time; I know I'm not perfect. Thank you Yeshua for being an Advocate on my behalf and imputing your righteousness to me. YAY JESUS!!!

Grace Wins again

 

[Epiales]

No I said SINNED until he died.

“If we say we HAVE NO SIN, WE DECIEVE OURSELVES. And there IS NO TRUTH IN US.” The Apostle John

Breath in..... Breath out ....

 

[Epiales]

Maybe thats because you do not know what all possible forms of adultry is

And because of that, I doubt you know the defenition of sin.

Laws Concerning Israel's Kings
​

Deu 17:14 When thou art come unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me;
Deu 17:15 Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.
Deu 17:16 But he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses: forasmuch as the LORD hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way.
Deu 17:17 Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.

 

[Epiales]

""First Kings 11:3 states that Solomon “had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines.” Obviously, God “allowed” Solomon to have these wives, but allowance is not the same as approval. Solomon’s marital decisions were in direct violation of God’s Law, and there were consequences.

Solomon started out well early in his life, listening to the counsel of his father, David, as recorded in 1 Kings 2:2-3, “Be strong, show yourself a man, and observe what the Lord your God requires: Walk in his ways, and keep his decrees and commands, his laws and requirements, as written in the Law of Moses, so that you may prosper in all you do and wherever you go.” Solomon’s early humility is shown in 1 Kings 3:5-9 when he requests wisdom from the Lord. Wisdom is applied knowledge; it helps us make decisions that honor the Lord and agree with the Scriptures. Solomon’s book of Proverbs is filled with practical counsel on how to follow the Lord. Solomon also wrote the Song of Solomon, which presents a beautiful picture of what God intends marriage to be. So, King Solomon knew what was right, even if he didn’t always follow the right path.

Over time, Solomon forgot his own counsel and the wisdom of Scripture. God had given clear instructions for anyone who would be king: no amassing of horses, no multiplying of wives, and no accumulating of silver and gold (Deuteronomy 17:14-20). These commands were designed to prevent the king from trusting in military might, following foreign gods, and relying on wealth instead of on God. Any survey of Solomon’s life will show that he broke all three of these divine prohibitions!

Thus, Solomon’s taking of many wives and concubines was in direct violation of God’s Word. Just as God had predicted, “As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and his heart was not fully devoted to the LORD his God” (1 Kings 11:4). To please his wives, Solomon even got involved in sacrificing to Milcom (or Molech), a god that required “detestable” acts to be performed (1 Kings 11:7-8).

God allowed Solomon to make the choice to disobey, but Solomon’s choice brought inevitable consequences. “So the Lord said to Solomon, ‘Since this is your attitude and you have not kept my covenant and my decrees, which I commanded you, I will most certainly tear the kingdom away from you and give it to one of your subordinates’” (1 Kings 11:11). God showed mercy to Solomon for David’s sake (verse 12), but Solomon’s kingdom was eventually divided. Another chastisement upon Solomon was war with the Edomites and Aramians (verses 14-25). ""

So there we have it for the story of Solomon and his polygamy too.

1Co_10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

 

[Adstar]

It's interesting that when you read the last verse in the chapter that this person was a "wicked" person. Wicked is considered 'unrighteous'. This person was not saved. Thus the reason it states that he MAY BE saved. Not that he was already saved to begin with.

Fair response.. Valid observation..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Laws Concerning Israel's Kings
​

Deu 17:14 When thou art come unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me;
Deu 17:15 Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.
Deu 17:16 But he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses: forasmuch as the LORD hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way.
Deu 17:17 Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.

Aww poor guys, they have proof now that just because everyone does something does not make it ok. sin is still sin.

 

[preacher4truth]

So you believe adultery until die go to heaven?

You obsess over if the lost will go to heaven.

 

[Jackson123]

You obsess over if the lost will go to heaven.

So what your believe

Is David live in sin untill he die because he is poligamy?

Is he go to heaven because he sin until he die?

 

[preacher4truth]

So what your believe

Is David live in sin untill he die because he is poligamy?

Is he go to heaven because he sin until he die?

Why not stick with reality instead of dreams and hypotheses?

 

[Jackson123]

Why not stick with reality instead of dreams and hypotheses?

Why not answer my question If you want to prove your Osas theory biblical

 

[Jackson123]

Why not stick with reality instead of dreams and hypotheses?

Why not answer my question If you want to prove your Osas theory biblical

 

[preacher4truth]

Why not answer my question If you want to prove your Osas theory biblical

OK, here it is.

Part of the problem is that you first start off with false assumptions, not so veiled ridicule, false scenarios, straw man arguments and accuse based on these errors as if it is all true.

You beg the question perpetually and it is dishonest of you. Therefore you're not arguing along the lines of truth, but of error.

You're pretending to want to know, but you already have all the answers and think you know what everyone else believes before you type anything here.

Again, you're not arguing along the lines of truth, but error.

Your erroneous view of perseverance of the saints (OSAS) is due to a low Biblical acumen and ignorance of what it really teaches.

Yes, a low Biblical acumen and ignorance.

You like what you think it teaches more than what it truly teaches. Until you realize this, and that your arguments are all I've shown them to be, you'll never learn.

 

[Jackson123]

OK, here it is.

Part of the problem is that you first start off with false assumptions, not so veiled ridicule, false scenarios, straw man arguments and accuse based on these errors as if it is all true.

You beg the question perpetually and it is dishonest of you. Therefore you're not arguing along the lines of truth, but of error.

You're pretending to want to know, but you already have all the answers and think you know what everyone else believes before you type anything here.

Again, you're not arguing along the lines of truth, but error.

Your erroneous view of perseverance of the saints (OSAS) is due to a low Biblical acumen and ignorance of what it really teaches.

Yes, a low Biblical acumen and ignorance.

You like what you think it teaches more than what it truly teaches. Until you realize this, and that your arguments are all I've shown them to be, you'll never learn.

You afraid to answer my question

Why I make wrong assumtion?

I ask question, I am not assume anything

Why don't you answer my simple question?

 

[preacher4truth]

You afraid to answer my question

Why I make wrong assumtion?

I ask question, I am not assume anything

Why don't you answer my simple question?

You've proven my point. You don't care to learn why all your assumptions are false.

Until then...take care my friend.

 

[Jackson123]

You've proven my point. You don't care to learn why all your assumptions are false.

Until then...take care my friend.

What assumption you talking about.

Did I asking question or making assumption?

 

[preacher4truth]

What assumption you talking about.

Did I asking question or making assumption?

Do you wish to truly understand perseverance of the saints (osas) or do you want to continue to erect straw men and beg the question?

 

[Epiales]

What assumption you talking about.

Did I asking question or making assumption?

You go on like a contentious woman that forces the man to go to the rooftop. Just let it go. You are NOT going to get an answer to questions that are not even 'real' scenarios. I wouldn't answer your questions either. For one, I don't like ANYONE demanding anything of me, and for two, I don't like people to spout the same garbage question over and over and over and over and over and over and over. It would seem that a person could see that the answer is not going to be given and then just let it go. You, my friend, have an ego problem and are very contentious.

But with that said. God loves you and I hope you take these words, as not trying to belittle or judge you, but that you might see the meaning behind what is being said; not get heated or upset. In other words, correction with love.

For the record, a person that goes back and forth and back and forth and back and forth and back and forth with this contentious argument is just as guilty as causing the contention. Let it go and don't try and force anyone to see your way of thinking, but just explain it. You, me, or anyone else will NEVER change anyone's minds about ANYTHING scriptural. It is ONLY the Holy Spirit that will change them. You can talk back and forth for 50 years, but until the spirit personally brings a certain revelation to you or them, then it is not going to be edifying but contentious. Trying to FORCE someone to see it YOUR way, or MY way is only going to lead to contention.

In other words: PLANT THE SEED AND STOP THE CONTENTION, BEFORE it causes someone to get upset!

Simple! We will get more respect from people if we do things out of love, not by trying to be 'right' or a 'know it all' all the time.

Just sayin'

Be blessed!

 

[povawiqe]

NOTE: This thread is NOT about debating OSAS vs non-OSAS.

Now that we got that out of the way, lets dive into it:

When i attend, I attend a pentecostal service. And as many of you probably know, I disagree with some of the stuff they teach, but I will not bring this up because I dont want to cause strife and division, because im not a pastor, im just a regular guy.

However, I have often heard people who say you can lose your salvation quote Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26 as a proof text.

Now lets assume for argument's sake that those verses mean exactly the way those who believe in conditional security believe they mean: WHY do so many pentecostals and others who believe you can lose your salvation ALSO believe you can GET IT BACK?
Because Hebrews 6:4-6 specifically says its IMPOSSIBLE to renew them again to repentance? So why all this talk for example about David losing his salvation, then REPENTING and getting it back? Which would go against Hebrews 6:4-6?

For those who just want TL;DR here it is: Why do you believe that you can get your salvation BACK after you lost it, in light of verses that you use to prove salvation can be lost, which say its IMPOSSIBLE to renew them again to repentance (hebr 6:4-6) and no sacrifice remains and they have trampled the blood of Jesus (hebr 10:26ff)?

That's because once you receive the anointing, which I call the "airflow of God", which is the correct translation of the words translated as "holy spirit", he frees you from the sinful nature, to where it thus becomes impossible to sin again. Yet even if you did sin again, which is indeed possible, just as certain angels who were previously righteous deliberately chose to sin, then it would be impossible for you to ever be reconciled with God. Not many receive this anointing.

 

[Epiales]

it thus becomes impossible to sin again. Yet even if you did sin again, which is indeed possible, just as certain angels who were previously righteous deliberately chose to sin, then it would be impossible for you to ever be reconciled with God. Not many receive this anointing.

Do HUH?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You go on like a contentious woman that forces the man to go to the rooftop. Just let it go. You are NOT going to get an answer to questions that are not even 'real' scenarios. I wouldn't answer your questions either. For one, I don't like ANYONE demanding anything of me, and for two, I don't like people to spout the same garbage question over and over and over and over and over and over and over. It would seem that a person could see that the answer is not going to be given and then just let it go. You, my friend, have an ego problem and are very contentious.

But with that said. God loves you and I hope you take these words, as not trying to belittle or judge you, but that you might see the meaning behind what is being said; not get heated or upset. In other words, correction with love.

For the record, a person that goes back and forth and back and forth and back and forth and back and forth with this contentious argument is just as guilty as causing the contention. Let it go and don't try and force anyone to see your way of thinking, but just explain it. You, me, or anyone else will NEVER change anyone's minds about ANYTHING scriptural. It is ONLY the Holy Spirit that will change them. You can talk back and forth for 50 years, but until the spirit personally brings a certain revelation to you or them, then it is not going to be edifying but contentious. Trying to FORCE someone to see it YOUR way, or MY way is only going to lead to contention.

In other words: PLANT THE SEED AND STOP THE CONTENTION, BEFORE it causes someone to get upset!

Simple! We will get more respect from people if we do things out of love, not by trying to be 'right' or a 'know it all' all the time.

Just sayin'

Be blessed!

Notice he did not respond to your post where you proved multiple wives was a sin, And he keeps going after ther people