The 144,000 named in Revelation

[garee]

No. The 144,000 chosen will be a mix of a remnant from the sons of Jacob to the believers sealed with the anointing at the second coming of the Messiah, which will be a mixture of Jews and Gentiles, which will become the new Israel, glorified, immortal, 144,000 chosen.

Yes a metaphorical number word (144,000) to represent all the father gave to the Son, chosen as His chaste virgin bride, the church.

The new creation. He defines the "new creation" which is not what we are fully but what we will be. We have the incorruptible seed in us giving us the patience waiting for the new body. His love not restricted by time is first and foremost long suffering.

We are a representative glory that is not shining that bright as time goes toward the end. It would appear to get darker.. when words lose their ability to convey thoughts to another. Like the word marriage , robbing the unseen glory of God, or abortion .Time change seems to be picking up speed. Technology becoming the new source of faith after the gods of this world.

The two will literally become one new born again creature. No need to multiple. We are the desolate, chaste virgin bride of Christ. Christianity, as the mother of us all. Children that walk after the unseen, eternal promises and not after the seed of man, flesh as that seen.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

One chaste virgin bride the church.

 

[cv5]

Rev 6:15
15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains.

Did not happen in 70 AD.

 

[garee]

Rev 11
9 For three and a half days some from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial.
10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.

The phenomenon of the Two Witnesses is worldwide, using modern broadcasting technology.
The time is now.....not 70 AD.

I would think they would be bodies of saints used to represent the two witnesses of God. The Law and the Prophets after the manner of Moses to represent the law of our Father in heaven and Elias to represent the prophets sent as apostles with the law of our father in heavens prophecy.

Matthew 17:2-4 King James Version (KJV)And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

It could be the last two witnesses used to represent the law and the prophets. God witness to man, not mans witness from man

.Remember according to the query in Luke 18... when Christ does come on the last day will he find his witness of faith (sola scriptura or the law and the prophets) or will it be like in the time of Noah everyone walking after the imaginations of their own hard hearts in respect to the things seen, natural unconverted man. And when Christ does come as a thief in the night it will take them by surprise when the very life's they trusted in was gone forever never to rise to new spirit life..

 

[RickyZ]

I appreciate the view, but cannot go that route due to the 4 statements that tie their location to being in heaven already when Revelation was written....

a Singing a song before the throne, the 4 beasts and 24 elders
b. Sealed by an angel that ASCENDS while speaking to the angel DESCENDING to the earth
c. Following the lamb where ever he goes
d. Offered as the firstfruits unto GOD/Sealed in their heads by the Father's seal

ALL of the above are located in heaven.......

The throne, 4 beasts and elders are in heaven
The Lamb is in heaven
The Father/God is in heaven
Sealed by the angel ASCENDING to SEAL while speaking to angel DESCENDING to earth places them above the earth

Something overlooked is the fact that this is not the Holy Spirit sealing them in salvation, but an anomalous event and a unique event.......

This assumes that God, heaven and eternity are constrained by man's timeline

 

[dcontroversal]

This assumes that God, heaven and eternity are constrained by man's timeline

I said nothing of time.....are you saying the Father is not in heaven, the 4 beasts are not in heaven, the 24 elders are not in heaven <---according to the bible this is where they are all located......and how does a TIMELINE that I did not mention or reference have anything to do with the facts that all three are located in heaven according to the bible where time is irrelevant?

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes a metaphorical number word (144,000) to represent all the father gave to the Son, chosen as His chaste virgin bride, the church.

The new creation. He defines the "new creation" which is not what we are fully but what we will be. We have the incorruptible seed in us giving us the patience waiting for the new body. His love not restricted by time is first and foremost long suffering.

We are a representative glory that is not shining that bright as time goes toward the end. It would appear to get darker.. when words lose their ability to convey thoughts to another. Like the word marriage , robbing the unseen glory of God, or abortion .Time change seems to be picking up speed. Technology becoming the new source of faith after the gods of this world.

The two will literally become one new born again creature. No need to multiple. We are the desolate, chaste virgin bride of Christ. Christianity, as the mother of us all. Children that walk after the unseen, eternal promises and not after the seed of man, flesh as that seen.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

One chaste virgin bride the church.

That's funny....according to the parables the Gentiles are guests at the wedding..........and of course I expect you to reject this......

 

[Deade]

I said nothing of time.....are you saying the Father is not in heaven, the 4 beasts are not in heaven, the 24 elders are not in heaven <---according to the bible this is where they are all located......and how does a TIMELINE that I did not mention or reference have anything to do with the facts that all three are located in heaven according to the bible where time is irrelevant?

Yes, timelines are relevant. There is also a heavenly realm on earth. We have a couple of scriptures for that:

Rev. 12:1 "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:"

Rev. 15:1 "And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God."

Both instances above they go right on explaining things that are obviously on earth. The 144,000 is strictly God gathering some of the Israelites from the nations where they were scattered. Don't get hung up on the "firstfruits" statement as it is commonly used. Christ was the wave-sheaf offering, also described as firstfruits.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes, timelines are relevant. There is also a heavenly realm on earth. We have a couple of scriptures for that:

Rev. 12:1 "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:"

Rev. 15:1 "And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God."

Both instances above they go right on explaining things that are obviously on earth. The 144,000 is strictly God gathering some of the Israelites from the nations where they were scattered. Don't get hung up on the "firstfruits" statement as it is commonly used. Christ was the wave-sheaf offering, also described as firstfruits.

NOPE and sorry...every word is inspired for a reason and the definite article is not applied in Greek generically.......and the wave/offering was OFFERED by the PRIEST and consisted of the firstfruits of the grain harvest.....and I never said anything about timelines......

 

[Deade]

NOPE and sorry...every word is inspired for a reason and the definite article is not applied in Greek generically.......and the wave/offering was OFFERED by the PRIEST and consisted of the firstfruits of the grain harvest.....and I never said anything about timelines......

John 20:1: "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre."

Three days and three nights raises Him on Saturday evening. He had already risen unseen by early Sunday. Jesus was talking with Mary saying he had not ascended to His Father yet:

John 20:16-18: “Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.”

John 20:19: “Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.”

Later that same day He appeared to His disciples and they could touch Him. That is when He told Thomas to touch His wounds and then He ate with them. So, we can say for sure the first ascension was on Sunday. We are given a picture of His ascension as the wave sheaf day: [look up wave sheaf day for yourself] when the first fruits were waved before God as a tribute. This was always done on the first Sunday after Passover.

 

[KJV1611]

Ok for all who want to know the truth... here it is.

The 144,000 firstfruits unto Christ are the first Jewish converts to Christ.
The 144000 were sealed in their forehead so that they would be protected while the 4 angels hurt the earth.

The wave offering was the Old Testament saints raised with Christ. Christ and those saints fulfilled the feast of Firstfruits.

 

[dcontroversal]

Ok for all who want to know the truth... here it is.

The 144,000 firstfruits unto Christ are the first Jewish converts to Christ.
The 144000 were sealed in their forehead so that they would be protected while the 4 angels hurt the earth.

The wave offering was the Old Testament saints raised with Christ. Christ and those saints fulfilled the feast of Firstfruits.

Maybe your truth in your mind.......emphasis upon the word "YOUR"

The first JEWISH converts to Christ he says HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHA...........shows you really have no understanding of the word and are just shooting from the hip....you can prove none of your three assertions from scripture.....

So let's logically deduce your 1st statement......

You said....The 144,000 firstfruits unto Christ are the first Jewish converts to Christ.

The 11 characteristics applied....NONE of the 144,000 in your equation have....

Ever had sex

Ever defiled with women

Ever lied

Ever had any guile in their mouths

THEY must have died to be standing ON MOUNT ZION with the LAMB <----show ONE TIME 144,000 believers stood with JESUS on this earth on MOUNT ZION with JESUS

THEY are ALL GUYS because of the 1st two listed in my characteristics....the women are outta luck

ONLY they can learn the song which they sing before the throne, the beasts and elders

AND a BIGGIE......THEY WERE NOT SEALED by the HOLY SPIRIT of PROMISE like EVERY OTHER SAVED BELIEVER.....but by an ANGEL of the LORD.........

NO...your view hold no water and has so many holes in it that one could drive a Mack truck through it.....and the tragic truth....You so have to be right that you cannot even LOGICALLY apply the word of GOD in a sensical way.....

FOLKS...do buy the drivel in the post I addressed in this post.....IT makes NO SENSE and does not JIVE........

Use your head man

 

[KJV1611]

Maybe your truth in your mind.......emphasis upon the word "YOUR"

The first JEWISH converts to Christ he says HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHA...........shows you really have no understanding of the word and are just shooting from the hip....you can prove none of your three assertions from scripture.....

So let's logically deduce your 1st statement......

You said....The 144,000 firstfruits unto Christ are the first Jewish converts to Christ.

The 11 characteristics applied....NONE of the 144,000 in your equation have....

Ever had sex

Ever defiled with women

Ever lied

Ever had any guile in their mouths

THEY must have died to be standing ON MOUNT ZION with the LAMB <----show ONE TIME 144,000 believers stood with JESUS on this earth on MOUNT ZION with JESUS

THEY are ALL GUYS because of the 1st two listed in my characteristics....the women are outta luck

ONLY they can learn the song which they sing before the throne, the beasts and elders

AND a BIGGIE......THEY WERE NOT SEALED by the HOLY SPIRIT of PROMISE like EVERY OTHER SAVED BELIEVER.....but by an ANGEL of the LORD.........

NO...your view hold no water and has so many holes in it that one could drive a Mack truck through it.....and the tragic truth....You so have to be right that you cannot even LOGICALLY apply the word of GOD in a sensical way.....

FOLKS...do buy the drivel in the post I addressed in this post.....IT makes NO SENSE and does not JIVE........

Use your head man

Ok here's the dcon story.

The 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and sixth seal have been opened.... now it's time for the great days wrath.

Rev 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Dcon's version of truth.
Let's stop talking about the impending wrath of God and let's now change the topic to 144,000 little virgin boys that Herod murdered.

In Dcon's version we have an angel ascending from the east to seal little children with the seal of the living God all the while the angel that does the sealing is saying "hurt not the earth, sea or trees UNTIL we have sealed the servants (servants under 2 years old mind you) til they get sealed in their foreheads.

Or we can go with the biblical version of truth.
The impending wrath of God is put on hold until the angel from the east seals the servants of the Lord because God's people aren't appointed to his wrath.

Now which one of these version seems more right to you Dcon?

FOLKS...do buy the drivel in the post I addressed in this post.....IT makes NO SENSE and does not JIVE........

Use your head man

 

[dcontroversal]

Ok here's the dcon story.

The 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and sixth seal have been opened.... now it's time for the great days wrath.

Rev 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Dcon's version of truth.
Let's stop talking about the impending wrath of God and let's now change the topic to 144,000 little virgin boys that Herod murdered.

In Dcon's version we have an angel ascending from the east to seal little children with the seal of the living God all the while the angel that does the sealing is saying "hurt not the earth, sea or trees UNTIL we have sealed the servants (servants under 2 years old mind you) til they get sealed in their foreheads.

Or we can go with the biblical version of truth.
The impending wrath of God is put on hold until the angel from the east seals the servants of the Lord because God's people aren't appointed to his wrath.

Now which one of these version seems more right to you Dcon?

FOLKS...do buy the drivel in the post I addressed in this post.....IT makes NO SENSE and does not JIVE........

Use your head man

A cursory read of your view yields the fact that you cannot even address the facts....Post 231 proves your stance beyond absurd.....and like I said...YOUR version of the truth is exactly that....YOUR version....time will tell.....!!

 

[KJV1611]

BTW dcon the reason you're so confused is because the about the 144000 in chapter

A cursory read of your view yields the fact that you cannot even address the facts....Post 231 proves your stance beyond absurd.....and like I said...YOUR version of the truth is exactly that....YOUR version....time will tell.....!!

Ok i'll address it.

Passover - Christ fulfilled at his death.
Unleavened Bread - Christ fulfilled by living a sinless life.
Firstfuits - Christ fulfilled partially by rising from the dead, he fulfilled the lamb portion. The Old Testament saints that rose with him fulfilled the wave portion.

Lev 23:12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf (resurrected saints) an he lamb (resurrected Christ) without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD.

What part do I have wrong?

 

[dcontroversal]

BTW dcon the reason you're so confused is because the about the 144000 in chapter

Ok i'll address it.

Passover - Christ fulfilled at his death.
Unleavened Bread - Christ fulfilled by living a sinless life.
Firstfuits - Christ fulfilled partially by rising from the dead, he fulfilled the lamb portion. The Old Testament saints that rose with him fulfilled the wave portion.

Lev 23:12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf (resurrected saints) an he lamb (resurrected Christ) without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD.

What part do I have wrong?

I am not confused about anything........and weigh everything line upon line, precept upon precept and actually listen to the INSPIRED words/verbiage especially when a definite article is given..........

 

[KJV1611]

I am not confused about anything........and weigh everything line upon line, precept upon precept and actually listen to the INSPIRED words/verbiage especially when a definite article is given..........

Passover - Christ fulfilled at his death.
Unleavened Bread - Christ fulfilled by living a sinless life.
Firstfuits - Christ fulfilled partially by rising from the dead, he fulfilled the lamb portion. The Old Testament saints that rose with him fulfilled the wave portion.

Lev 23:12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf (resurrected saints) an he lamb (resurrected Christ) without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD.

You say I have it wrong but what part of the above do I have wrong?

 

[iamsoandso]

I have newadvent in my save


I don't use Roman Catholic web sites for information. newadvent is RCC sponsored.
Anyway, I didn't see what you were trying to say about Polycarp.

I apologize for the delay in response(busy weekend,lol) . I am not RCC/Catholic either but I see the concern. I use the letters from their site because it is a better thought out page design and are the same interpretations as other sites have. Again there are other sites/sources of the same to choose if you rather.

The point I was making is in what Polycarp states about (Smyrna) not knowing the Lord and the others who alone knew him. This would not matter unless Smyrna was one of the seven Churches mentioned in Revelation. Polycarp who is believed to be born in ad69 and appointed bishop of Smyrna by John and died in ad155-156 would know more closely when Smyrna came to know the Lord I think but then if Polycarp is the first bishop after John that would mean the Church in Smyrna was not established until after ad70.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

I apologize for the delay in response(busy weekend,lol) . I am not RCC/Catholic either but I see the concern. I use the letters from their site because it is a better thought out page design and are the same interpretations as other sites have. Again there are other sites/sources of the same to choose if you rather.

The point I was making is in what Polycarp states about (Smyrna) not knowing the Lord and the others who alone knew him. This would not matter unless Smyrna was one of the seven Churches mentioned in Revelation. Polycarp who is believed to be born in ad69 and appointed bishop of Smyrna by John and died in ad155-156 would know more closely when Smyrna came to know the Lord I think but then if Polycarp is the first bishop after John that would mean the Church in Smyrna was not established until after ad70.

The churches in Asia Minor (today's Turkey) were "established" by Paul
Polycarp has no writings that surviced him, the only reference to his writiings were as quoted by Irenaeus in his "Against Heresies, Tongues and Anti-Christ".

 

[Absolutely]

I gave an explanation as to HOW the Gentiles could actually descend from one of the tribes of Israel. You want more explanation? Here you go, which I doubt you will believe, because you don't want to,

The 144,000 follow the lamb wherever he goes,

…They follow the Lamb wherever he goes… (Revelation 14:4 [NIV])​

Just as the believers, who are gathered at the second coming of Yeshuah Messiah, will then always be with Yeshuah,

For the Master himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in the Messiah will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Master in the air, and so we will always be with the Master. (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)​

The 144,000 are also called first fruits,

…They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. (Revelation 14:4 [NIV])​

Just as the believers are also called a first fruits,

He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created. (James 1:18 [ESV])​

The 144,000 also have a seal,

saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” (Revelation 7:3 [ESV])​

Just as believers also have a seal, which is the airflow of God,

In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised set-apart airflow, (Ephesians 1:13)​

And it is God who establishes us with you in the Messiah, and has anointed us, and who has also put his seal on us and given us his airflow in our hearts as a guarantee. (2 Corinthians 1:21-22)​

The 144,000 are also purchased,

And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased from the earth. (Revelation 14:3 [NASB])​

Just as the believers are purchased,

you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies. (1 Corinthians 6:20 [NIV])​

Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the set-apart airflow has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the assembly of God, which he bought with his own blood. (Acts 20:28)​

The 144,000 are also virgins who will not defile themselves with women,

These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins… (Revelation 14:4 [NIV])​

Just as the believers will become virgins at the resurrection, for the believers will not marry nor be given in marriage,

At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. (Matthew 22:30)​

Need I quote more scripture to prove the obvious? Stop being stubborn.

If the bible left out their geneology as you did,your view may have traction.
We know they are Born jews of the 12 tribes.
No need to ascribe gentile or grafted.
It is vividly plain.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

If the bible left out their geneology as you did,your view may have traction.
We know they are Born jews of the 12 tribes.
No need to ascribe gentile or grafted.
It is vividly plain.

Very true! (and I would wonder how they "slaughtered" exactly 12,000 from each of the precise tribes listed, if the OP were true. )

Consider again: the "firstfruit" that was associated with the "wheat harvest" involved "TWO LOAVES" and "baken with leaven" (and said to be "unto the Lord" Lev23:17 just like Rev14:4 says), but what is stated of "the Church which is His body" (to, for, and about "the Church which is His body," [SINGULAR]) is specifically that "ye are UNleavened" [factually, positionally, legally] (1Cor5:7--and consider what Ephesians 2 states regarding same; as well as the "G4862 - 'WITH'/ 'united with' / 'identified with' - syn" word that is consistently used with regard to same). "The Church which is His body" is not the wheat harvest.