Question(s) to those who believe salvation can be lost

[eternally-gratefull]

Do HUH?

Is he confused or Did I read him wrong?? Lol..

 

[preacher4truth]

That's because once you receive the anointing, which I call the "airflow of God", which is the correct translation of the words translated as "holy spirit", he frees you from the sinful nature, to where it thus becomes impossible to sin again. Yet even if you did sin again, which is indeed possible, just as certain angels who were previously righteous deliberately chose to sin, then it would be impossible for you to ever be reconciled with God. Not many receive this anointing.

Denial of the Holy Spirit deity.

 

[preacher4truth]

Do HUH?

What he said was....oh, never mind!

 

[povawiqe]

Do HUH?

What I said would be like saying, "it is impossible for the Messiah to sin, yet it is indeed possible for him to sin", meaning although it was not predestined by God for the Messiah to sin, the possibility of sin was always there, hence why he was tempted, to test him. If he sinned, then he would not have been able to become a sacrifice to atone for us.

 

[Epiales]

What I said would be like saying, "it is impossible for the Messiah to sin, yet it is indeed possible for him to sin", meaning although it was not predestined by God for the Messiah to sin, the possibility of sin was always there, hence why he was tempted, to test him. If he sinned, then he would not have been able to become a sacrifice to atone for us.

Why didn't' you say that to begin with?

 

[preacher4truth]

What I said would be like saying, "it is impossible for the Messiah to sin, yet it is indeed possible for him to sin", meaning although it was not predestined by God for the Messiah to sin, the possibility of sin was always there, hence why he was tempted, to test him. If he sinned, then he would not have been able to become a sacrifice to atone for us.

There was no possibility for Christ to sin. You're contradicting yourself.

 

[povawiqe]

Why didn't' you say that to begin with?

There are many things I could say to give clarity, but then rather than complain about why I didn't say it, then some of you will complain that what I said was too wordy.

 

[povawiqe]

There was no possibility for Christ to sin. You're contradicting yourself.

That's precisely the point. Its impossible, and such is the case of someone who receives the airflow of God, which is the anointing, which is also called being "born of God",

Whosoever is born of God does not sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:9)

We know that every one being born of God does not sin; but the one engendered of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. (1 John 5:18)

Which is what it means to be "freed from sin". In which case, in the impossible event that someone who received the anointing of God did sin, it would be impossible to bring him back to repentance. And could someone who received the anointing sin? Yes. The possibility to sin is always there. But it is not predestined for anyone who receives the airflow of God to do so, just as it was not predestined for the Messiah to sin when he came in the flesh.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Problem is that you fail to ignore what lies before your bold words. Which is what we do mostly anymore; ignore some parts and focus on the parts that line up with our theology. Let me post it to you the way it says as well:

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

Now I can see more clearly! Yeah, that sounds like a Christian? Christians don't have a heart of unbelieving do they? Everything after that is VOID when it is discussed about a Christian because of that. This is not referring to children of God.



Again, the devils 'believe'... right? I guess the devils saved? Hopefully point is made clearly!



Let me rebold your scripture again:

But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

Let's look at what was said before Jesus explains it:

Mat 13:5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
Mat 13:6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

This is a different kind of heart and person. If two people owned fields, those fields would be separated by rocks so that the fields could be separated from one another. There will be some earth on these stones but not much, so when the seed is thrown out there liberally, some of the seed will land on these stony dividers. So when it’s sown, and the sun comes out, it kills what had sprouted because there is no depth in their growth.

A plant will grow roots, and when the roots hit something hard like a rock, the roots are actually pushing the plant upwards. So the plant above ground looks really healthy. The issue is that the roots can’t go any further, so they are unable to get to the nutrients and soil that they need to grow properly. So, on the outside they look great, but on the inside they are not. Doesn’t this sound just like the description Christ told the Pharisees? To see this a bit further, let’s look at the Greek for deepness (they had no deepness).

bath'-os

From the same as G901; profundity, that is, (by implication) extent; (figuratively) mystery: - deep (-ness, things), depth.

These people had no insight or great depth of knowledge or thought. That is exactly what profundity means. This means that they heard the Word of God, got excited about it, and for a little while was on fire, but without a deep insight or a depth of knowledge, they never got the Word deeply ingrained in their heart. They have the nutrients they do need, but they don’t get them because their heart is not into getting them, and when the trials and tribulations come, they give up. They don't get the nutrients they need: CHRIST, which leads to eternal salvation.

How many times have we seen someone claim to come to the Lord and they have all the outward signs that they are just on fire for the Lord. They witness, share their testimony and appear to just be loving life now. Then when something happens in their life, they whither up and don’t stay with the Lord.

They hear it, have knowledge of it, but not a deep rooted knowledge, or they would have stayed with the Lord. These people never allowed what knowledge they had to take them into saving faith. They have made an OUTWARD decision, but never made an INWARD commitment. They are excited, but when things don’t go their way, trials come, tribulation arises, they expect God to be the Genie in the book they can rub, and He’s going to just make it all better. They think that, well, I’ve been doing this and doing that, so why is THIS happening? Why is THAT happening? Don’t you love me Jesus? Then they leave, without ever coming to the saving faith in Christ Jesus.

Jesus explains this in verse 21:

Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Says it all…

Yes the verse says it all.

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
Hebrews 3:12-14


It’s clear that a person must first have Christ in order to depart from Him.

LOL!!!


Your long winded attempt to explain away the truth is well noted.


Just simply read what is written.



JPT

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's precisely the point. Its impossible, and such is the case of someone who receives the airflow of God, which is the anointing, which is also called being "born of God",

Whosoever is born of God does not sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:9)

We know that every one being born of God does not sin; but the one engendered of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. (1 John 5:18)

Which is what it means to be "freed from sin". In which case, in the impossible event that someone who received the anointing of God did sin, it would be impossible to bring him back to repentance. And could someone who received the anointing sin? Yes. The possibility to sin is always there. But it is not predestined for anyone who receives the airflow of God to do so, just as it was not predestined for the Messiah to sin when he came in the flesh.

I think this man is trying to teach sinless perfection. IE, He does nto understand what sin is. Because if he did, He would never make such a claim and boast of his perfection.

I pray I am wrong and misreading him

 

[povawiqe]

I think this man is trying to teach sinless perfection. IE, He does nto understand what sin is. Because if he did, He would never make such a claim and boast of his perfection.

I pray I am wrong and misreading him

Why do you call this teaching "sinless perfection". Did Paul not call himself blameless in regards to his own obedience of the Torah? Was Noah not called perfect in his generations, which is why he was spared from the destruction of the flood? "Perfection" has nothing to do with being in this imperfect body, it has to do with obedience to the commands of the Torah, which can indeed be done, even in this imperfect body, even while having the sinful nature. It is called being "master over sin", as was told to Cain. Yet that was before. Now, in the Messiah, we have the ability to be freed from sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why do you call this teaching "sinless perfection". Did Paul not call himself blameless in regards to his own obedience of the Torah? Was Noah not called perfect in his generations, which is why he was spared from the destruction of the flood? "Perfection" has nothing to do with being in this imperfect body, it has to do with obedience to the commands of the Torah, which can indeed be done, even in this imperfect body, even while having the sinful nature. It is called being "master over sin", as was told to Cain. Yet that was before. Now, in the Messiah, we have the ability to be freed from sin.

For ALL have sinned and fall short (this includes Noah and Paul
If we say we have no sin we decieve ourselves (the apostle John)
There is NON righteous, no not one, As jesus said, there is NON who is Good but God..
Daniel was never said to sin, But he admitted, he was a sinner

If you think you are sinless. You are in trouble, And I worry about you.

 

[povawiqe]

For ALL have sinned and fall short (this includes Noah and Paul
If we say we have no sin we decieve ourselves (the apostle John)
There is NON righteous, no not one, As jesus said, there is NON who is Good but God..
Daniel was never said to sin, But he admitted, he was a sinner

If you think you are sinless. You are in trouble, And I worry about you.

All have sinned in the PAST. Just because you were a thief once does not mean that you should and can continue to steal. At some point, you have to stop, if indeed you wish to not be thrown in prison if you weren't caught the first few times. Such is the case when the Messiah said "be perfect" and in another epistle it is written "whoever is born of God cannot sin"... it doesn't mean that we never sinned before, because we all did, hence "if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves", but it means that at some point we must stop sinning, "sin no more", to thus reach the obedience that is expected of us, perfection. We are also called to be living sacrifices. A sacrifice offered to God cannot have blemishes, otherwise it will not be accepted. The only way to become perfected, after first having completely stopped sinning, is to become born again by the airflow of God.

 

[justpassinthrough]

How can people go to Church without believing?

Lots of people go to church who do not
(Biblically) believe.

JLB

 

[justpassinthrough]

"If a man abide not in me,.... Christ does not say, "if ye abide not in me"; he would not suppose this of his true disciples; Judas now being removed, to whom he may have some respect in this verse; though it may be applied to anyone who has made a profession of Christ, and denies the truths of the Gospel, neglects the ordinances of it, or walks unworthy of his profession: of whom the following things may be truly said,

he is cast forth as a branch; that is unfruitful, and is therefore taken away from the vine, and cast forth out of the vineyard. This signifies the ejection of worthless and fruitless professors out of the churches; for such who are either unsound in their principles, or are remiss and negligent in their attendance on the worship of God, with the church, or are loose and vain in their lives and conversations, are to be removed from communion with the people of God. "

Again, perfect example. Person that is "CALLED" a brother in the Corinthian Church, but they get the boot because they are wicket and unfruitful.

"If a man, abide not in me - If a man is not truly united to him by faith, and does not live with a continual sense of his dependence on him. This doubtless refers to those who are professors of religion, but who have never known anything of true and real connection with him."

"Is withered - Is dried up. A branch cut off withers. So of a soul unconnected with Christ, however fair it may have appeared. and however flourishing when a profession of religion was first made, yet when it is tried, and it is seen that there was no true grace, everything withers and dies. The zeal languishes, the professed love is gone, prayer is neglected, the sanctuary is forsaken, and the soul becomes like a withered branch reserved for the fire of the last great day. "

How about those who believe for a while, then fall away?



JLB

 

[Jackson123]

Do you wish to truly understand perseverance of the saints (osas) or do you want to continue to erect straw men and beg the question?

Let use simple language friend.

Why you not answer my simple question. What make you think my question is straw man question.

What is your definition of straw man question?

 

[Jackson123]

You go on like a contentious woman that forces the man to go to the rooftop. Just let it go. You are NOT going to get an answer to questions that are not even 'real' scenarios. I wouldn't answer your questions either. For one, I don't like ANYONE demanding anything of me, and for two, I don't like people to spout the same garbage question over and over and over and over and over and over and over. It would seem that a person could see that the answer is not going to be given and then just let it go. You, my friend, have an ego problem and are very contentious.

But with that said. God loves you and I hope you take these words, as not trying to belittle or judge you, but that you might see the meaning behind what is being said; not get heated or upset. In other words, correction with love.

For the record, a person that goes back and forth and back and forth and back and forth and back and forth with this contentious argument is just as guilty as causing the contention. Let it go and don't try and force anyone to see your way of thinking, but just explain it. You, me, or anyone else will NEVER change anyone's minds about ANYTHING scriptural. It is ONLY the Holy Spirit that will change them. You can talk back and forth for 50 years, but until the spirit personally brings a certain revelation to you or them, then it is not going to be edifying but contentious. Trying to FORCE someone to see it YOUR way, or MY way is only going to lead to contention.

In other words: PLANT THE SEED AND STOP THE CONTENTION, BEFORE it causes someone to get upset!

Simple! We will get more respect from people if we do things out of love, not by trying to be 'right' or a 'know it all' all the time.

Just sayin'

Be blessed!

Thank for your judgement with love, I ask question again and again because the gentelment give me answer that is not my question. So I keep repeat that you are not answer my question.

Say I ask what time is It

Some body answer that food is healthy food

So I have to repeat that I am not ask about food. I ask about what time is it

 

[preacher4truth]

Let use simple language friend.

Why you not answer my simple question. What make you think my question is straw man question.

What is your definition of straw man question?

"Do you wish to truly understand perseverance of the saints (osas) or do you want to continue to erect straw men and beg the question?"

I'm trying to help you.

The above is quite simple. Answer my question and I will help you. Do you wish to truly understand the perseverance of the saints (osas)? Yes or no?

 

[RickyZ]

I've discovered the once saved always saved (OSAS) doctrine is both true and false. All the verses that are stated as support for a person losing their salvation are true. So are the verses used by the OSAS crowd. It would take a book to explain how to harmonize all the verses for and against OSAS.

Thank you! Yes both side's verses ARE true. But even a book explaining it might not work. People have an impossible time wrapping their heads around the concept of our limited understanding, and how that might play into how we interpret things. So they glom onto one side or the other, call the other side heretics, and stone anyone who tries to use their imagination to figure out how it could be that both sides are TRUE!

 

[Jackson123]

I'm trying to help you.

The above is quite simple. Answer my question and I will help you. Do you wish to truly understand the perseverance of the saints (osas)? Yes or no?

Yes make It simple

Now answer my simple question