Hardshell & Primitive Baptist "Conditional Time Salvation" Warning

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

@ForestGreenCook in Jesus’ High Priestly prayer, He said this...

20 “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.”(John 17)

Notice how He said “but for those also who believe in Me through their word.” This goes on today. We have their words recorded in our bibles. We believe in Him via the word of God.(Romans 10:17 & Ephesians 1:13)

 

[preacher4truth]

@ForestGreenCook in Jesus’ High Priestly prayer, He said this...

20 “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.”(John 17)

Notice how He said “but for those also who believe in Me through their word.” This goes on today. We have their words recorded in our bibles. We believe in Him via the word of God.(Romans 10:17 & Ephesians 1:13)

Yes, and believing in him through the word is eternal life, which takes place via the means of the word of the Gospel.

God has always used means to accomplish his eternal purpose.

 

[preacher4truth]

I believe that everyone that he died for is going to heaven (John 6:39) without the lose of even one, whether they lived by faith or not. All who are going to heaven was covered by Jesus's death on the cross. His death for the sins of God's elect flowed back to cover the old testament saints and flows forward to cover the last of his elect that will be born into this world by natural birth. and then is when Jesus will come back to gather his elect and take them home.

This is totally unbiblical bro, a distortion of the Gospel.

The just live by faith; Romans 1:17 &c. The just are those who are justified by faith and all are after the pattern of Abraham, there is no second class as you are making it out to be by your allowance. There are none who are justified by faith that don't live it.

You're making a disclaimer not in Scripture to support your doctrine, and this is how you read your doctrine into the text when it is not there. You are doing this because you do not understand the truth of the Gospel message bro, you're turning it into another gospel.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

This is totally unbiblical bro, a distortion of the Gospel.

The just live by faith; Romans 1:17 &c. The just are those who are justified by faith and all are after the pattern of Abraham, there is no second class as you are making it out to be by your allowance. There are none who are justified by faith that don't live it.

You're making a disclaimer not in Scripture to support your doctrine, and this is how you read your doctrine into the text when it is not there. You are doing this because you do not understand the truth of the Gospel message bro, you're turning it into another gospel.

Seems like someone already made this statement my friend. 🤔🤫

 

[preacher4truth]

Seems like someone already made this statement my friend. 🤔🤫

Where?

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Where?

Post #320, bottom post on page 16.

 

[preacher4truth]

My bad.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

My bad.

No problem at all my friend.

 

[preacher4truth]

That is flat out untrue my friend. No where does it say this.

Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.”(Gal. 3:11)

“Behold, as for the proud one, His soul is not right within him; But the righteous will live by his faith.”(Hab. 2:4)

For in it the righteousness of God is revealed [a]from faith to faith; as it is written, “[b]But the righteous man shall live by faith.”(Rom. 1:17)

But My righteous one shall live by faith; And if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him.(Heb. 10:38)

The just(a righteous) person will live by faith.

Well, I missed this post. My apologies.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

That is flat out untrue my friend. No where does it say this.

Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.”(Gal. 3:11)

“Behold, as for the proud one, His soul is not right within him; But the righteous will live by his faith.”(Hab. 2:4)

For in it the righteousness of God is revealed [a]from faith to faith; as it is written, “[b]But the righteous man shall live by faith.”(Rom. 1:17)

But My righteous one shall live by faith; And if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him.(Heb. 10:38)

The just(a righteous) person will live by faith.

I agree that no one is justified by the old law, and also that the regenerated man lives by faith, but Christ made those that he died for just. God looks upon them as holy and without blame. Man's faith is not the cause of his eternal salvation.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I agree that no one is justified by the old law, and also that the regenerated man lives by faith, but Christ made those that he died for just. God looks upon them as holy and without blame. Man's faith is not the cause of his eternal salvation.

But they shall live by faith. What you stated earlier is unbiblical my friend.

The Law saved zero. All the Law did was show people their sin. The letter kills, the Spirit gives life(2 Cor. 3:6).

 

[preacher4truth]

I agree that no one is justified by the old law, and also that the regenerated man lives by faith, but Christ made those that he died for just. God looks upon them as holy and without blame. Man's faith is not the cause of his eternal salvation.

No one is saying faith is the cause, only you are as if someone said it.

You keep repeating what we already know. We also don't believe faith and repentance are a work of man, but you do. The faith that comes via the Word is evidence of conversion, not the cause, and the means is the preaching of the Gospel; Romans 10.

The just shall live by faith, that is the pattern for all the elect, that is the meaning of this throughout Scripture, but you have those who do not possess faith going into heaven.

Nothing in Scripture supports your error. What does support it is your journey that began with the false notion of anti-means salvation, so it is purely subjective. Your faulty foundation is what you continue to build your doctrine on and you've added in more erroneous doctrine because you read CTS and anti-means into everything. Your theory is Gnostic bro, not biblical.

There is no secondary class as you all claim.

Biblically speaking none under belief in a false gospel have eternal life, Galatians 1:8-10.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

This is totally unbiblical bro, a distortion of the Gospel.

The just live by faith; Romans 1:17 &c. The just are those who are justified by faith and all are after the pattern of Abraham, there is no second class as you are making it out to be by your allowance. There are none who are justified by faith that don't live it.

You're making a disclaimer not in Scripture to support your doctrine, and this is how you read your doctrine into the text when it is not there. You are doing this because you do not understand the truth of the Gospel message bro, you're turning it into another gospel.

I am not disputing the fact that the regenerated man lives by faith. I am disputing the idea that man's faith is the cause of his eternal salvation.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

No one is saying faith is the cause, only you are as if someone said it.

You keep repeating what we already know. We also don't believe faith and repentance are a work of man, but you do. The faith that comes via the Word is evidence of conversion, not the cause, and the means is the preaching of the Gospel; Romans 10.

The just shall live by faith, that is the pattern for all the elect, that is the meaning of this throughout Scripture, but you have those who do not possess faith going into heaven.

Nothing in Scripture supports your error. What does support it is your journey that began with the false notion of anti-means salvation, so it is purely subjective. Your faulty foundation is what you continue to build your doctrine on and you've added in more erroneous doctrine because you read CTS and anti-means into everything. Your theory is Gnostic bro, not biblical.

There is no secondary class as you all claim.

Biblically speaking none under belief in a false gospel have eternal life, Galatians 1:8-10.

Ok! let me get this straight as to what you are saying. Are you saying that everyone on this forum that does not believe the gospel the same as you does not have eternal life? Romans 1 - Paul is addressing the churches of Galatia. I suspected that your belief allows fewer into heaven than mine does, but not that much fewer.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

But they shall live by faith. What you stated earlier is unbiblical my friend.

The Law saved zero. All the Law did was show people their sin. The letter kills, the Spirit gives life(2 Cor. 3:6).

I agree with your second sentence, but not your first.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

This is totally unbiblical bro, a distortion of the Gospel.

The just live by faith; Romans 1:17 &c. The just are those who are justified by faith and all are after the pattern of Abraham, there is no second class as you are making it out to be by your allowance. There are none who are justified by faith that don't live it.

You're making a disclaimer not in Scripture to support your doctrine, and this is how you read your doctrine into the text when it is not there. You are doing this because you do not understand the truth of the Gospel message bro, you're turning it into another gospel.

I retract the statement in red. My point in my statement was that all that Christ died for will be with him in heaven, without the loss of even one.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I agree with your second sentence, but not your first.

I retract my statement "whether they have faith or not". My purpose of the statement was to show that all that Christ died for will live in heaven without the loss of even one. I believe that all regenerate people have faith.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

This is totally unbiblical bro, a distortion of the Gospel.

The just live by faith; Romans 1:17 &c. The just are those who are justified by faith and all are after the pattern of Abraham, there is no second class as you are making it out to be by your allowance. There are none who are justified by faith that don't live it.

You're making a disclaimer not in Scripture to support your doctrine, and this is how you read your doctrine into the text when it is not there. You are doing this because you do not understand the truth of the Gospel message bro, you're turning it into another gospel.

I got carried away with the point I was trying to make, that all he died for will be in heaven and made a false statement about whether they had faith or not. However, man's faith does not save him eternally.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I got carried away with the point I was trying to make, that all he died for will be in heaven and made a false statement about whether they had faith or not. However, man's faith does not save him eternally.

Man's faith does not save him, period. Lost man is void of faith in God, as it is a fruit of the Spirit per Galatians 5:22.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I agree with your second sentence, but not your first.

What I am saying is faith is a fruit of the Spirit, on this we both agree. However, faith comes via the word of God, as Romans 10:17 clearly states. Those who have died, are dying now, and will die later not hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ, die in an unregenerate state, seeing that faith comes by the word, and if they never heard the word, they never had faith. No faith means no regeneration, nor regeneration means no salvation.