Things to Consider Before Attempting to Correct the King James Bible

[Epiales]

In other words you don't care about the correct definition of English words are. Therefore you can make up your own personal definition is!!!

Not at all! I refer back to the Hebrew and Greek definitions. As stated earlier, there are at least 800+ words in the KJV that do not mean what our English words mean today. The only way to get the definition is to go back to the Hebrew and Greek.

 

[Epiales]

Oh man, this one is tough for me to continue to read, considering both sides here because I do. I'm talking about the God creating evil conversation.... Stirring clear of personal attacks, calling character into question, I want to say because this is a topic of great interest to me.

I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not among you one wise man who will be able to decide between his brethren,
1 Corinthians 6:5 NASB

I am not a wise enough sister on this matter, lol (hope there is room for a giggle).


I mean of course it messes with our sensibilities considering our Holy, set apart, God as creating, evil, adversity, chaos, calamity. It doesn't make sense, and one feels the need to protect His Holy Goodness.

And yet I ponder too these things. I think in looking at the context before Isaiah 45:7, we can get a better understanding...

Thus says the Lord to Cyrus His anointed, Whom I have taken by the right hand, To subdue nations before him And to loose the loins of kings; To open doors before him so that gates will not be shut: "I will go before you and make the rough places smooth; I will shatter the doors of bronze and cut through their iron bars. "I will give you the treasures of darkness And hidden wealth of secret places, So that you may know that it is I, The Lord , the God of Israel, who calls you by your name. "For the sake of Jacob My servant, And Israel My chosen one, I have also called you by your name; I have given you a title of honor Though you have not known Me. "I am the Lord , and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the Lord , and there is no other, The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these.
Isaiah 45:1‭-‬7 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/isa.45.1-7.NASB

Hey sis,

The bottom line here is when the chapter is understood in context, that God creates adversity and calamity, or woe for those that are disobedient unto Him. This is exactly what happened. The children of Israel ended up in 70 years of Babylonian captivity. This wasn't 'evil' it was judgment on them for their actions.

Our carnal minds perceive this to be 'evil', but God is not carnal, and He sure does not think like we do. I hear people say a lot that it's evil because of OUR perception. It's not about OUR perception. God does not create evil or does evil to anyone.

The topic was about the KJV, which is why I brought this verse up. The KJV uses the worst word here for the context of the scripture, and because of this, we have millions of people walking around claiming that God is the Author of evil; that He created evil.

Then look at Joseph’s words after he was reconciled to his brothers, “As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive.”(Gen. 50:20) God uses all things, good and evil, in our lives to fulfill His plan.

And my point all along. God does not create evil, nor did He create it in the beginning. But God will use what man plans as evil against someone else and turn it into good.

 

[Dino246]

May i ask about this fellows and gals...it appears alot diff....can you share why it has such a variance ?....love in Christ Sherril........(KJV) Ephraim compasseth me about with lies, and the house of Israel with deceit: but Judah yet ruleth with God, and is faithful with the saints.)
NIV>>>>
Ephraim surrounds Me with lies
And the house of Israel with deceit;
Judah is also unruly against God,
Even against the Holy One who is faithful.
NASB>>>>Ephraim surrounds Me with lies
And the house of Israel with deceit;
Judah is also unruly against God,
Even against the Holy One who is faithful.
View attachment 191919

Hi Sherril,
What these verses show is difference... that’s it. If you assume the KJV is correct, you will conclude the newer versions are wrong. However that is an arbitrary assumption. The KJV may be familiar to you, but it isn’t the standard of accuracy; the sources are. On this verse you will have to dig deeper to determine the right version.

 

[preacher4truth]

Perhaps we should define what the text means in Romans 8:16, "The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,?"

 

[Hevosmies]

Right (can't help thinking we may have left the thread long ago). So we've moved to God's guidance now. Well, Agabus is mentioned in God's word as having given a message by the Holy Spirit to Paul, a message that wasn't in the Scriptures. The second Calvinist guy I mentioned expands on this at some length. Um, Sackcloth, you are a Calvinist, right?

Yup.

Which Calvinist guy would this be btw?

I wish there were continuationist calvinists. I know of two, both of which I like, naturally.
Sam Storms is one and Matt Slick is another (he runs the CARM website which will pop up if you google anything christian related most of the times)

 

[Hevosmies]

Perhaps we should define what the text means in Romans 8:16, "The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,?"

Do so I wanna know. Bring on the knowledge bro

 

[preacher4truth]

Yup.

Which Calvinist guy would this be btw?

I wish there were continuationist calvinists. I know of two, both of which I like, naturally.
Sam Storms is one and Matt Slick is another (he runs the CARM website which will pop up if you google anything christian related most of the times)

Yes, I too want to know who it is as well, would like to listen to him.

 

[John146]

I request you define that list of words without looking them up. When you read scripture you shouldn't have to have a dictionary there with the words that ceased to exist in English or try to find out what the real translation of the non existent animals really are. Your view is fallacious to say the least.

In all other areas of study,

Hi Sherril,
What these verses show is difference... that’s it. If you assume the KJV is correct, you will conclude the newer versions are wrong. However that is an arbitrary assumption. The KJV may be familiar to you, but it isn’t the standard of accuracy; the sources are. On this verse you will have to dig deeper to determine the right version.

And if you conclude the NASB, ESV, NIV or any other single version to be the word of God, then all others are false. It's either one or none. Most on here, I guess, would vote none, there is no Bible we can trust to be the holy, pure words of God that we can trust.

 

[Sherril]

Hi Sherril,
What these verses show is difference... that’s it. If you assume the KJV is correct, you will conclude the newer versions are wrong. However that is an arbitrary assumption. The KJV may be familiar to you, but it isn’t the standard of accuracy; the sources are. On this verse you will have to dig deeper to determine the right version.

Dino may i ask why are they so diff. brother...love in Christ Sherril...what is the true interpretation of that verse...

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Perhaps we should define what the text means in Romans 8:16, "The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,?"

I seeth this as Him confirming useth as a childeth of God, not in a wayeth of speaking to us. When we beareth witness to something, we confirmeth as trutheth. I added all the 'eth' to go with the KJV theme of the thread.

 

[Dino246]

In all other areas of study,

And if you conclude the NASB, ESV, NIV or any other single version to be the word of God, then all others are false. It's either one or none. Most on here, I guess, would vote none, there is no Bible we can trust to be the holy, pure words of God that we can trust.

This is an old, well-refuted argument. I don't assume that any particular translation is perfect, so I don't worry about this like you seem to.

Your black-and-white approach is deeply flawed. It blinds you to the real situation and tends to limit your trust in God. You can't comprehend that your pet translation isn't perfect, because in your mind, that leaves you with nothing at all. It's quite sad.

 

[Dino246]

Dino may i ask why are they so diff. brother...love in Christ Sherril...what is the true interpretation of that verse...

I'd have to do some homework on it to answer that... which will have to wait until the weekend.

What I will say is that it isn't a core doctrinal issue.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Yes, I too want to know who it is as well, would like to listen to him.

Isn't Francis Chan a Calvinist and also a continuist?

 

[John146]

This is an old, well-refuted argument. I don't assume that any particular translation is perfect, so I don't worry about this like you seem to.

Your black-and-white approach is deeply flawed. It blinds you to the real situation and tends to limit your trust in God. You can't comprehend that your pet translation isn't perfect, because in your mind, that leaves you with nothing at all. It's quite sad.

How then, do you know what God has said? Not just the major doctrines, but all Scripture? Aren't you interested in knowing all the truth God has for us? God, who gave us His word, was not capable of preserving His word for us today?

 

[John146]

Isn't Francis Chan a Calvinist and also a continuist?

Calvinist and believes in water regeneration...another gospel in my opinion.

 

[Dino246]

How then, do you know what God has said? Not just the major doctrines, but all Scripture? Aren't you interested in knowing all the truth God has for us? God, who gave us His word, was not capable of preserving His word for us today?

More unnecessary black-and-white thinking. You're welcome to it; I prefer truth.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

How then, do you know what God has said? Not just the major doctrines, but all Scripture? Aren't you interested in knowing all the truth God has for us? God, who gave us His word, was not capable of preserving His word for us today?

He did preserve his word to us. He did it in the Bible, but not only on the King James, it's in all versions and translations, because his word is not ink on paper or material, it's spirit and truth. A person with no affinity toward God can read any Bible on Earth and not have one word from God. It's when you read these words from God with the holy Spirit that the word is revealed.

 

[Sipsey]

There appears to be many “learned” individuals on this site. It seems that many who study on a regular basis have a fairly extensive library of bound & electronic reference books. This thread is interesting on many levels, but the original posting of defending the KJV made me think of a site I have used in the past. It lists the original text from several manuscript families for each verse, then the Greek & translation from several translations. It’s neatly done and can be a good comparative study aid. Here it is for those interested;

http://www.greeknewtestament.com/B43C001.htm

 

[Hevosmies]

There appears to be many “learned” individuals on this site. It seems that many who study on a regular basis have a fairly extensive library of bound & electronic reference books. This thread is interesting on many levels, but the original posting of defending the KJV made me think of a site I have used in the past. It lists the original text from several manuscript families for each verse, then the Greek & translation from several translations. It’s neatly done and can be a good comparative study aid. Here it is for those interested;

http://www.greeknewtestament.com/B43C001.htm

Thanks a lot! Great website!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

May i ask about this fellows and gals...it appears alot diff....can you share why it has such a variance ?....love in Christ Sherril........(KJV) Ephraim compasseth me about with lies, and the house of Israel with deceit: but Judah yet ruleth with God, and is faithful with the saints.)
NIV>>>>
Ephraim surrounds Me with lies
And the house of Israel with deceit;
Judah is also unruly against God,
Even against the Holy One who is faithful.
NASB>>>>Ephraim surrounds Me with lies
And the house of Israel with deceit;
Judah is also unruly against God,
Even against the Holy One who is faithful.
View attachment 191919

I look in the OT. And I can not find a time when Judah RULED with God.

I do however, see that they also, just like israel and Ephram, were unruly, so much in fact. Babylon conquered them, Medea and persia enslaved them Greece defiled their holy place. And even when christ walked the earh, their unruliness cause rome to totally destroy them and scatter them all over the earth.


Also, the hebrew can help.

The term interpreted “rule” in the KJV or “walk” in the NKJV is this

RWD - to rome about freely, to tear oneself loose (walk with no guide)
To wander restlessly, to roam
here accordeing to the dictionary of biblical languages

8113 רוּד (rûḏ): v.; ≡ Str 7300; TWOT 2129—1. LN 34.40–34.41 (qal) disassociate, formally, roam, be in a state of no longer being in an association, as a figurative extension of roaming or wandering about in linear motion (Jer 2:31; Hos 12:1[EB 11:12]+), see also domain LN 15; (hif) start to roam (Ge 27:40+); 2. LN 25.223–25.250 (hif) be troubled, formally, be caused to roam, i.e., have feelings of anxiety or distress as a figurative extension of being driven or caused to flee in linear motion (Ps 55:3[EB 2]+)

Yep. I think we see who got it wrong.