There are only 2 Persons in the Israelite Godhead, not 3 Persons

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Y

YDo

Active member
#101
Dec 9, 2018
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#101
jaybird88 said:
im a man, Jesus was a man, i must be Jesus?? sorry it just does not add up.
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You're right it doesn't add up.
The Trinity doctrine declares three separate and distinct persons in the Father, Son, Holy Ghost polytheistic ideology. Three separate and distinct persons.
Their analogy is flawed when trying to equate the human familial identities to make their point.
I am a man, who is a husband, and a father. Those are not three separate distinct persons. That's one person who is a man first and as such can only be the husband in a marriage and can only be identified as father to his children.
One!
In the case of God the Bible revokes the Triune ideology that arrived centuries after Christ.
God is a Holy Spirit and Immanuel was God who walked among us for 33 years. All God all the time.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#102
Jul 18, 2017
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#102
GraceAndTruth said:
pick pick pick pick.........and the official doctrine uses ONE PERSON.
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Not really. If you say *one person* that leads to Modalism.

Modalism, also called Sabellianism, is the unorthodox belief that God is one person who has revealed himself in three forms or modes in contrast to the Trinitarian doctrine where God is one being eternally existing in three persons. According to Modalism, during the incarnation, Jesus was simply God acting in one mode or role, and the Holy Spirit at Pentecost was God acting in a different mode. Thus, God does not exist as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit at the same time. Rather, He is one person and has merely manifested himself in these three modes at various times. Modalism thus denies the basic distinctiveness and coexistence of the three persons of the Trinity.

From Theopedia
 
Y

YDo

Active member
#103
Dec 9, 2018
151
60
28
#103
Nehemiah6 said:
Not really. If you say *one person* that leads to Modalism.

Modalism, also called Sabellianism, is the unorthodox belief that God is one person who has revealed himself in three forms or modes in contrast to the Trinitarian doctrine where God is one being eternally existing in three persons. According to Modalism, during the incarnation, Jesus was simply God acting in one mode or role, and the Holy Spirit at Pentecost was God acting in a different mode. Thus, God does not exist as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit at the same time. Rather, He is one person and has merely manifested himself in these three modes at various times. Modalism thus denies the basic distinctiveness and coexistence of the three persons of the Trinity.

From Theopedia
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Then trinity that uses three separate and distinct persons is tri-theism.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#104
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
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#104
YDo said:
You're right it doesn't add up.
The Trinity doctrine declares three separate and distinct persons in the Father, Son, Holy Ghost polytheistic ideology. Three separate and distinct persons.
Their analogy is flawed when trying to equate the human familial identities to make their point.
I am a man, who is a husband, and a father. Those are not three separate distinct persons. That's one person who is a man first and as such can only be the husband in a marriage and can only be identified as father to his children.
One!
In the case of God the Bible revokes the Triune ideology that arrived centuries after Christ.
God is a Holy Spirit and Immanuel was God who walked among us for 33 years. All God all the time.
Click to expand...
If the One God is not a 'person,' this being an analogy, with three roles in heaven, on earth, and in our hearts, then I challenge you to do better. Maybe a three dimensional presence appropriate to the environment, in heaven, on earth and in our hearts, might suit you better? Either way, please do not diminish the almighty creator by saying God cannot be present with us on earth so as to take upon himself the sins of mankind, because that is something only GOD can do.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#105
Jan 11, 2013
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#105
jaybird88 said:
i was addressing the flaws in the man>father>son analogy. it does not work. anyone with a 5th grade plus education can easily see through it.
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I cannot abide silliness. Next time, you will go on my ignore list.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#106
#106
PS said:
I cannot abide silliness. Next time, you will go on my ignore list.
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your argument is getting shredded so ignoring me would probably be the better option for you.
 
GraceAndTruth

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
#108
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
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#108
Nehemiah6 said:
Not really. If you say *one person* that leads to Modalism.

Modalism, also called Sabellianism, is the unorthodox belief that God is one person who has revealed himself in three forms or modes in contrast to the Trinitarian doctrine where God is one being eternally existing in three persons. According to Modalism, during the incarnation, Jesus was simply God acting in one mode or role, and the Holy Spirit at Pentecost was God acting in a different mode. Thus, God does not exist as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit at the same time. Rather, He is one person and has merely manifested himself in these three modes at various times. Modalism thus denies the basic distinctiveness and coexistence of the three persons of the Trinity.

From Theopedia
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The doctrine of the Trinity is held historically by orthodox Christianity.
“The ONE true God eternally exists as three distinct Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal, co-eternal, and one in essence.

Don't be tossing out big words you don't understand.
 
Rechazado

Rechazado

New member
#109
Dec 15, 2018
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#109
YehovaYeshua said:
When I Googled the subject "Trinity" it said that it was Tertullian who in the third century AD began to advocate that the Holy Spirit is a person.

I don't believe in the Trinity, the concept that there are THREE Persons in the Israelite Godhead.

I only believe that there are TWO Persons in the Israelite Godhead.

There is God the Father of the Old Testament and there is God the Son.

As for God the Father:

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD.

(The above word "LORD" is the word "Yehova" in Hebrew)

And this God Jehova has a Son:

Psalm 2:12
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little.

Galatians 4:4
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman.

But the most important Biblical evidence that there are only TWO Persons in the Israelite Godhead is found in the letters of Paul.

At the beginning of ALL Paul's letters, Paul ONLY BRINGS GREETINGS to the Church from GOD THE FATHER and from the LORD JESUS CHRIST ... and then, Paul... STOPS! Let's look at those verses:

Romans 1:7
To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:3
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:2
Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1:3
Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:2
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1:2
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:2
To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are at Colosse: Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1:1
Paul and Silvanus and Timotheus, to the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 1:2
Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 1:2
To Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

2 Timothy 1:2
To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

Titus 1:4
To Titus, my own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Philemon 1:3
Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

NOW, if Paul had considered the Holy Spirit to be a Person, would not Paul also have sent greetings from the Holy Spirit to the Church?

Indeed, the Bible says instead that the Spirit is the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 3:16
Don't you know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

Galatians 4:6
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

So clearly the Spirit is something that belongs to God the father and that belongs to God the Son.

Again, if anyone in the New Testament would have known whether the Holy Spirit was a person like God the Father and like God the Son ... Paul would have certainly known it and Paul would also have sent greetings from the Holy Spirit and the reason Paul NEVER did is because Paul knew that the Holy Spirit was not a person.

There are only TWO Persons in the Israelite Godhead, God the Father and God the Son Jesus Christ.

It was Tertullian who in the third century AD floated the idea that the Holy Spirit was a person and the modern church has adopted it Hook, Line & Sinker.
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I agree with you, YY

The Lord Jesús also said , "don't fear those who kill the body. Instead , fear the One who kill the body and the soul in hell..." So here i also see we're Not 3 persons, but a twofold being and, if we were made according to His image, we probably have just 2.
 
Rechazado

Rechazado

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#110
Gracie_14 said:
This is all just so confusing to me.

Matthew 28:19 teaches us to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is obviously referenced to a Triune God. And the Holy Spirit is referred to a "he" not an "it"....so how is the Holy Spirit not a person?

Scripture makes it clear that the Holy Spirit is a person. You haven't read New Testament well enough to know the Holy Spirit is a person.
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Who held the "original gospel" for centuries?
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#111
#111
Gracie_14 said:
This is all just so confusing to me.

Matthew 28:19 teaches us to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is obviously referenced to a Triune God. And the Holy Spirit is referred to a "he" not an "it"....so how is the Holy Spirit not a person?

Scripture makes it clear that the Holy Spirit is a person. You haven't read New Testament well enough to know the Holy Spirit is a person.
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the Most High is a "He" not a "they".
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#114
#114
eternally-gratefull said:
Well scripture says otherwise. So I will take Gods view. You can have your own.. ok?
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Mark 12 32-34
And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher. You have truly said that he is one, and there is no other besides him. 33And to love him with all the heart and with all the understanding and with all the strength, and to love one’s neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.” 34And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And after that no one dared to ask him any more questions.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#115
#115
jaybird88 said:
Mark 12 32-34
And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher. You have truly said that he is one, and there is no other besides him. 33And to love him with all the heart and with all the understanding and with all the strength, and to love one’s neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.” 34And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And after that no one dared to ask him any more questions.
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Ok, now take this with the passage where Jesus spoke in the OT

Isaiah 48:16
“Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord God and His Spirit Have sent Me.”

And solve the appearant contradiction (using your interpretation)
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#116
#116
eternally-gratefull said:
Ok, now take this with the passage where Jesus spoke in the OT

Isaiah 48:16
“Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord God and His Spirit Have sent Me.”

And solve the appearant contradiction (using your interpretation)
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what contradiction? i dont see the Most High being called "they" anywhere. are you talking about "the Lord and His Spirit" part of the passage?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#117
#117
jaybird88 said:
what contradiction? i dont see the Most High being called "they" anywhere. are you talking about "the Lord and His Spirit" part of the passage?
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I figured you would refuse to go look at context ofg what I was saying, so you could properly respond to me. But since you could not. Here I will help you

Is 48: 12 Listen to Me, O Jacob,
And Israel, My called:
I am He, I am the First,
I am also the Last.
13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth,
And My right hand has stretched out the heavens;
When I call to them,
They stand up together.
14 “All of you, assemble yourselves, and hear!
Who among them has declared these things?
The Lord loves him;
He shall do His pleasure on Babylon,
And His arm shall be against the Chaldeans.
15 I, even I, have spoken;
Yes, I have called him,
I have brought him, and his way will prosper.
16 “Come near to Me, hear this:
I have not spoken in secret from the beginning;
From the time that it was, I was there.
And now the Lord God and His Spirit
[c]Have sent Me.”
17 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer,
The Holy One of Israel:
“I am the Lord your God,

What more proof do you need?

It says Jesus was the first and last
The creator of all things
The sustainor of all things
He was there in the begining when all things were made and has spoken from that time forward
He is the redeemerHe is the HOLY ONE of Israel (The MOST HIGH)
He is the LORD THEIR GOD

And he WAS SENT by the FATHER, and HIS SPIRIT

So again, resolve the conflict..

Either your interpretation of the passage you gave is flawed. or God lied in the book of Isaiah
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#118
#118
eternally-gratefull said:
I figured you would refuse to go look at context ofg what I was saying, so you could properly respond to me. But since you could not. Here I will help you

Is 48: 12 Listen to Me, O Jacob,
And Israel, My called:
I am He, I am the First,
I am also the Last.
13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth,
And My right hand has stretched out the heavens;
When I call to them,
They stand up together.
14 “All of you, assemble yourselves, and hear!
Who among them has declared these things?
The Lord loves him;
He shall do His pleasure on Babylon,
And His arm shall be against the Chaldeans.
15 I, even I, have spoken;
Yes, I have called him,
I have brought him, and his way will prosper.
16 “Come near to Me, hear this:
I have not spoken in secret from the beginning;
From the time that it was, I was there.
And now the Lord God and His Spirit
[c]Have sent Me.”
17 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer,
The Holy One of Israel:
“I am the Lord your God,

What more proof do you need?

It says Jesus was the first and last
The creator of all things
The sustainor of all things
He was there in the begining when all things were made and has spoken from that time forward
He is the redeemerHe is the HOLY ONE of Israel (The MOST HIGH)
He is the LORD THEIR GOD

And he WAS SENT by the FATHER, and HIS SPIRIT

So again, resolve the conflict..

Either your interpretation of the passage you gave is flawed. or God lied in the book of Isaiah
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where does the passage say Jesus?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#119
#119
jaybird88 said:
where does the passage say Jesus?
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See thats what your supposed to be telling me, Resolve the two passages.

WHO was sent by the father and spirit?i
WHO is the redeemer?

I only know of one who fits that defenition.. Can you show me another?
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#120
#120
eternally-gratefull said:
See thats what your supposed to be telling me, Resolve the two passages.

WHO was sent by the father and spirit?i
WHO is the redeemer?

I only know of one who fits that defenition.. Can you show me another?
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the Father is speaking, i dont get your point? what does this have to do with the Almighty being called "He" and not "they"?
 
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