Broad Path, Narrow Path

posthuman · Dec 18, 2018

context:

You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate Me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love Me and keep My commandments.

(Exodus 20:4-6)

a couple relevant facts which have been excluded:

For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive;

and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon Thee.
(Psalm 86:5)

Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
(Matthew 5:7)

posthuman · Dec 18, 2018

Studyman said:

context:

Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

“Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

“All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

(Matthew 19:16-26)

a couple relevant facts which have been excluded:

was this man a believer?
- no - he calls the Lord "teacher" and Christ rebukes him immediately
was this man under the Sinai covenant or the covenant of Christ's blood?
- Sinai - he did not ((at this time as far as is recorded)) trust in Christ, did not believe Jesus is the Christ, and was asking what 'works' ((sic. "what good thing")) he must do -- see Galatians 3:11-12, Romans 10:5-11, etc
- this man considered salvation to be something earned by doing, not received by faith. see Romans 4:4, 11:6, etc
this man kept the law since birth, by his own admission which was not contradicted by Jesus. but he knew he still lacked something. what Jesus instructed him to do was not a commandment of the law, and not something He is recorded as having told others to do.

posthuman · Dec 18, 2018

Studyman said:

here's an interesting exercise:

list all religions of the world. separate them into categories whereby salvation/enlightenment/heaven is attained by works accomplished by man vs. attained by faith in God and His accomplished work

posthuman · Dec 18, 2018

Studyman said:

is your purpose for this thread actually about sabbath?

posthuman · Dec 18, 2018

Studyman said:

context:

Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel, for which I am suffering even to the point of being chained like a criminal. But God’s word is not chained. Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.

Here is a trustworthy saying:

If we died with Him,
we will also live with Him;
if we endure,
we will also reign with Him.
If we disown Him,
He will also disown us;
if we are faithless,
He remains faithful,
for He cannot disown himself.

Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have departed from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

(2 Timothy 2:8-19)

in the context of the passage what is "iniquity" / "lawlessness" ?
- unbelief in the affirmations made:
  - Jesus Christ, raised from the dead
  - God's word is not chained
  - if we died with Him we shall reign with Him
  - He remains faithful when we are faithless
  - His foundation stands firm
  - He knows who are His
- participation in the evils described:
  - disowning Him
  - quarreling about words
  - godless chatter
  - departing from the truth
  - thinking the resurrection has already taken place
please notice that nowhere in the passage is reference made to sabbath or any other Mosaic covenant law. the affirmations & warnings all concern the gospel & faith in it - which includes repentance from dead works.

posthuman · Dec 18, 2018

Adstar said:

Studyman said:

as previously noted this isn't actually what Catholicism, with her rites, sacraments, human intercessors and works of merit, teaches.

it is the gospel written in the scriptures.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves;

it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

(Ephesians 2:8-9)

@Studyman please have a look at Matthew 17:22-27

what is the 'broad path' in that event, and what is the 'narrow way' ?

posthuman · Dec 18, 2018

posthuman said:

typo, sorry

this should be two bullet points, if we died with Him we shall also live with Him & if we endure ((in Him: a matter of enduring in faith not measurement of works)) we we shall reign with Him

it is very interesting that this statement of endurance is set right alongside the statement that He remains faithful even when we do not. what confidence is ours in Him!!

mailmandan · Dec 18, 2018

posthuman said:

All the religions in the world fit into one of two categories. 1. Christ is an ALL-sufficient Savior and man is saved by grace through faith, not works. 2. Christ is an IN-sufficient Savior and man is saved by works. Only true Christianity (and not nominal Christianity) fits into category 1. All other religions fit into category 2.

Adstar · Dec 18, 2018

Studyman said:

That is a very popular, almost universal belief of the catholic church and all her hundreds of daughters. A very popular religious doctrine follow by "many" no doubt.

But the Word of God says:

Ex. 20: 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

2 Tim. 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from lawlessness.

Matt. 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Jesus walked in His Fathers Holy Days, and so did His disciples. So we can expect this is a part of the "narrow path". The "many" who followed the religions of the land created their own High days and commandments.

Surely we must consider the "walk" of our Savior when determining what Path to "enter".

As an ex catholic i can attest most assuredly that the catholic church is a worldly works salvation religion.. I totally renounced that religion when i read the Bible and became a Christian..

Salvation by Gods gift of grace is the Way to eternal salvation.. it is the Only Way..

Studyman · Dec 18, 2018

p_rehbein said:

Why would a man who believes Jesus in regards to all His Warnings about religious men and false teachers, rely on religious men to interpret the scriptures for them?

Has the Word of God ever led a person away from Him? Has the religious teaching of man ever led people away from Him?

I understand how easy it is to just rely on someone else to interpret the Word of God. But isn't that what Eve did?

Are there really only two differences between the 2 paths?

The broad path created by men furthering man's traditions, created by man's doctrines?

The Narrow path created by the Word of God, and walking in by the Word of God?

Doesn't God write His instructions on the hearts of His People? In the Bible, who are the "ministers of Righteousness"?

I get the religious tradition of having preachers. But isn't it through "preachers" that satan deceives the world? Who is the "preacher" of the narrow path that "FEW" follow?

John Gill (23 November 1697 – 14 October 1771) was an English Baptist pastor, biblical scholar, and theologian who held to a firm Calvinistic soteriology.

I appreciate the input, but as the Christ teaches me; "Take Heed that ye are not deceived". Deceived into what? Following the broad path "many" are on? Something to think about.

Studyman · Dec 18, 2018

mailmandan said:

How about dividing the self proclaimed "Christian" churches of the world into 2 categories.

#1. Those who live in Transgression of the Commandmnets of God by their own religious traditions.

#2. Those who deny themselves and live by Every Word of God as Jesus instructs.

That's right. If you are even a little bit honest with yourself you will see that almost the entire religion falls under #1.

His Apostles were also shown this.

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Luke 13:
23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,

24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

The scriptures, as a whole, teach that satan will deceive the whole world using religions which call the God of Abraham, Lord, Lord.

It starts by convincing everyone who listens that they are "saved". This is first. A man is made immortal first, eternal salvation first, as satan convinced Eve she was already saved, that she "shall surely not die".

Then it teaches that "God doth know" His instructions keep you blind, burden you, make you a slave. And that the only way to be free from the oppression placed on men by God, is to reject the Commandment He gives, and replace them with your own vision of righteousness. "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food"; "she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat".

So then it isn't the wicked mind of man that must repent and turn to God. It's God that must repent and take away His unjust, burdensome instructions He created, that man can not follow.

That man is basically an innocent victim of unrighteous, unjust commandments of God which they preach are "against us", and if they are taken away, "then our eyes will be opened".

The religious leaders of Christ's time also resented the Word of God, they tried to discredit it first, then they nailed it to the Cross in an attempt to shut it up permanently. But the Word of God Rose again, and lasts forever.

A hard pill to swallow for those who transgress the commandments of God by their own religious traditions.

Studyman · Dec 18, 2018

Adstar said:

What I mean by referencing the Catholic religion is their use and promotion of transgressing the Commandments of God by their own traditions. I might note that Jesus didn't know those in Matt. 23, not because they did "works" in Christ's name, but because they living in disobedience to God. The Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time created their own religion, just as did the Catholics.

Jesus didn't reject the Mainstream Preachers of His time because they were trying to "earn" Salvation by obeying God. This is a lie that originated in the catholic church.

They taught against "Living by Every Word of God" as Jesus instructed, just like the Mainstream Preachers of His Time taught against "living by Every Word of God, just like the majority of modern religions of today teach against "Living by every Word of God.

In this way, there is no difference between them all. They all claimed to preach the "Way to eternity" and they all "transgress the Commandments of God by their own religious traditions. Therefore the "broad path" that "many" follow.

In contrast, Neither Jesus, the Word of God which became Flesh, nor His Prophets in the Law and Prophets, nor any of His Disciples, nor any of the examples of Faith given us, practiced Lawlessness nor did they transgressed the Commandments of God by religious traditions of man. Therefore the "Narrow path" that "FEW" follow.

My point here is that we should listen to the Word of God, ALL of it, and not the religious doctrines of men who openly transgress God's Commandments by their religious doctrines. Some thing Christ never did.

Studyman · Dec 18, 2018

Adstar said:

This is my whole point. The difference between what Jesus taught and what religious men teach.

Jesus said: "And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me."

So Jesus said if I don't "TAKETH NOT" and "FOLLOWETH". These are both works that He is not doing for me, I must do them. If I don't, then I am not "WORTHY of His Grace".

These are His Words not religious man's word.

Matt. 7:
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work lawlessness.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Again. Jesus is instructing me to "DO" something. If I "DO" I will endure the storms that come. "wiles of the devil"

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

If I "do them not" I will not endure the storms to come. "wiles of the devil"

Is this not the perfect definition of the two Paths Jesus taught about?

Adstar · Dec 19, 2018

Studyman said:

You should have quoted the verses that preceded..

Matthew 7: KJV
21 "¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. {22} Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? {23} And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Here above we have people standing before the LORD trying to justify their eternal existence with God by the Works they did.. Did Jesus preach to do wonderful works? Yes .. Did they do wonderful works? Yes and this is what you are preaching correct??? Then why are they rejected by Jesus and cast out ?

Because salvation comes by Believing Jesus and trusting in the Atonement Jesus secured for our salvation.. You are very wrong in proclaiming that our Works play a part in our salvation.. They don't.. We are saved because our transgressions are forgiven not because of the measure of the good works we have done..

As for the commandments of Jesus... John declared them in 1 john 3::

1 John 3: KJV
21 "Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. {22} And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. {23} And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment."

mailmandan · Dec 19, 2018

Adstar said:

Amen! You hit the nail on the head! "Trying to justify their eternal existence with God by the works they did," which also sounds familiar in posts #31-33. These many people in Matthew 7:22-23 fall into category 2 from post #28.

Matthew 7:21 - "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

*John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

If these many people in Matthew 7:22-23 were believers, then they would have said, Lord, Lord didn't "YOU" (Romans 3:24-28) instead of Lord, Lord, didn't "WE." Works salvation is NO SALVATION AT ALL.

Studyman · Dec 19, 2018

Really, you believe that Jesus taught to live in Lawlessness as long as we do our version of "wonderful works" in His Name?

You learned this from someone, but it wasn't Jesus. This is the whole point of my existence on this forum. Not to insult you or shame you, but to show why Jesus warns about religious men, and the influence their teaching, a "little leaven", has on the whole lump.

I am not aware where Jesus ever said, condoned, taught, partook of or otherwise accepted ANY Religion which practiced Lawlessness while doing wonderful works of man in His Name. I am a student of His Word but could have missed something. Can you please show me the Scriptures where Jesus condoned a religion which called Him Lord, Lord, who taught in His Name, but practiced transgression of His Fathers Commandments? I don't believe it is there.

Second, do you know what Jesus is talking about when He says "In that day"? Is this not the second resurrection? Can these folks not see their fate. Think about their dilemma.

They had spent their life in a church that claimed Jesus as their Savior. They called Him Lord, Lord. They were told their whole religious life that they were "saved by the Blood of Jesus" and nothing would take that away. They had nothing to do with these "good works" because it was the "fruits" of their faith.. Their pastor sent every friend of theirs that died to heaven. EVERY SINGLE ONE, regardless of their Lawlessness or rejection of God's Words. They gave Jesus the credit for everything they did, everything they preached, and were convinced that they were on the Path of righteousness to eternal life. Then they died as all men do.

The next thing they remember is opening their eyes and seeing the lake of fire. They see Abraham and Lazarus afar off and realize that they were not part of the first resurrection that God's chosen partook of. But were of the second. Of course they were defending their religious traditions. They had been told by the likes of many on this form and "many many" more in the religious franchises of the land, that as long as they claimed "Belief" they were eternally secure, saved, and their works of Lawlessness meant nothing to their salvation. Then to find out it was all a falsehood "in that day" when it is too late to repent? There is not a one of us who wouldn't do the exact same thing. This is why Jesus inspired it to be written "Today" if you hear His voice, don't harden your heart." It's too late to change after we die.

You asked "Why did Jesus reject them"? But When Jesus gives you the answer that I posted. you seemed to not even "see" it.

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work lawlessness. (Not "you that do wonderful works in My name") There is no Law against that. But they were practicing transgression of God's Commandments. Maybe like building huge churches in His Name, then placing images of God they created in the likeness of man.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, (Not Lawlessness) I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

I know this is the religious doctrines of the land that "many" people "believe". That we do not play any part in our own salvation. This is the foundation of hundreds of religions all around the world who all do great works in Christ's Name.

But what I am trying to do is open His Word's, all of them, and find out why Jesus would say I must "Doeth them" when you and "many" who come in Christ's Name preach we "do nothing", and worse yet, if I follow Jesus as did Abraham and Peter, I am some how rejecting His Grace.

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me."

Not WORTHY of HIS GRACE. (His Words.)

"You are very wrong in proclaiming that our Works play a part in our salvation.. They don't" (Your Words.)

Narrow Path= Christ's word's

Broad path = Religious man's words.

This is key.

Who is this Jesus? Not who the religions of the Land preach, but who does the Bible teach His Son is? Is He not the Word which became Flesh? Is He not the Light of the World? Did God not send Him in the very beginning?

"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."

And was it not this Jesus who spoke to Abram?

Gen. 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, ( deny yourself, take up your cross) unto a land that I will shew thee: (And Follow Me)

Please answer this question. If Abraham had heard these Sayings of the Christ, and "doeth them not", would He have received the Grace of God?

It was a tough choice for Abraham, and it was a hard pill to swallow for those religions in Christ's time which had following a religion which transgressed the Commandments of God by their own religious tradition for centuries. It will be no different for you and I today.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Jer. 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, (The Christ, the Word of God which became Flesh) Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, (Hear His Sayings) where is the good way, and walk therein, (Doeth them) and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

John 6:
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

I hope you might consider.

posthuman · Dec 19, 2018

Studyman said:

this is obviously a gross mischaracterization of the post you are quoting.

posthuman · Dec 19, 2018

Studyman said:

as Adstar told you, look at the verse preceding. not everyone who says lord lord but those who do the will of the Father. not doing His will = Lawlessness. His will is spelled out very clearly : believe in the Son.

you are having trouble with this because you either reject or twist the scripture which tells us we are not under law, so that you conflate His commands with the Sinai covenant. and stuck here, you assume everyone who actually believes what the gospel says, that through Him we are under grace, not law, you assume we are all practising wickedness and haters of doing right.

read Romans 6-7 again. read Galatians again. there are motivating factors apart from fear of the penalty of the letter of law which impel us to live righteous lives.

p_rehbein · Dec 19, 2018

Studyman said:

Why would a man who believes Jesus in regards to all His Warnings about religious men and false teachers, rely on religious men to interpret the scriptures for them?

Has the Word of God ever led a person away from Him? Has the religious teaching of man ever led people away from Him?

I understand how easy it is to just rely on someone else to interpret the Word of God. But isn't that what Eve did?

Are there really only two differences between the 2 paths?

The broad path created by men furthering man's traditions, created by man's doctrines?

The Narrow path created by the Word of God, and walking in by the Word of God?

Doesn't God write His instructions on the hearts of His People? In the Bible, who are the "ministers of Righteousness"?

I get the religious tradition of having preachers. But isn't it through "preachers" that satan deceives the world? Who is the "preacher" of the narrow path that "FEW" follow?

John Gill (23 November 1697 – 14 October 1771) was an English Baptist pastor, biblical scholar, and theologian who held to a firm Calvinistic soteriology.

I appreciate the input, but as the Christ teaches me; "Take Heed that ye are not deceived". Deceived into what? Following the broad path "many" are on? Something to think about.

Are you not suggesting we should rely on your interpretation? I do not rely on theirs, I simply find it helpful to see what others have to say on the subject...........I RELY on the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit to interpret Scriptures for me.

Studyman · Dec 19, 2018

posthuman said:

"Did Jesus preach to do wonderful works? Yes .. Did they do wonderful works? Yes and this is what you are preaching correct??? Then why are they rejected by Jesus and cast out ?"

This is a mischaracterization of what Jesus teaches. He didn't "cast them out" because they were doing stuff in His name, there is no law against that. My post reflects the foolish implications of this statement. Of course Jesus didn't condone a religion which call's Him Lord, Lord, which does wonderful works in His Name, but who practice a religion which transgresses God's commandments, otherwise known as "lawlessness". Yet Adstar seems to imply with this statement that these folks were cast out because they did as Jesus instructed. My post reflects the Biblical fact that this is not true and my question would expose this if a man were to consider it.

I don't expect you to understand.

Broad Path, Narrow Path

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