Broad Path, Narrow Path

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Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
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#41
Are you not suggesting we should rely on your interpretation? I do not rely on theirs, I simply find it helpful to see what others have to say on the subject...........I RELY on the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit to interpret Scriptures for me.

:)
No, I am not. I was hoping for an honest discussion about an issue which Jesus felt important enough to make a pretty big deal out of.

But instead, "many" folks feel the need to justify their own religious views, often by quoting, not the Word's of the Christ, but the words of a preacher that they agree with.

I was hoping to stick to the only 100% safe Word's in which we can trust above all other "voices". And if His Word's bring a religious doctrine of the religions of the land into question, maybe we can choose His Word's and reject the doctrine, instead of the other way around.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
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#42
="posthuman, post: 3802904, member: 170505"]as Adstar told you, look at the verse preceding. not everyone who says lord lord but those who do the will of the Father. not doing His will = Lawlessness. His will is spelled out very clearly : believe in the Son.
His Son said HIS Word's are Life. But "many who come in His Name have said much of His Word's are against us, (Commandments, definition of Holy, etc.) and the Man Jesus came to "remove them". (your words) I don't believe the Scriptures support this teaching as I have shown for 13 months. His Word's Last for ever, "All of them", not just the ones you can use to further your religious belief.

you are having trouble with this because you either reject or twist the scripture which tells us we are not under law, so that you conflate His commands with the Sinai covenant. and stuck here, you assume everyone who actually believes what the gospel says, that through Him we are under grace, not law, you assume we are all practising wickedness and haters of doing right.
Your version of "under the Law" and the Bibles version are two different things. According to Paul we are "under the law" when we transgress it. We are all brought "under it" by the death transgression of them causes. But for those who "do" as the Christ instructs. (Repent, turn to God, do works worthy of repentance) His Word's, not the Popes, or some religious franchise, but the Word's of the Christ, we can have this transgression removed. So we are then "FREE" from this death, no longer "under the Law" and are free to "Choose Life" this time around, as the Christ has taught from the very beginning.

Rom. 6:
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, (live in transgression of God's Laws) that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, (Truly Repentant) live any longer therein?

But if a man has been convinced, as Eve was, and many others, that God's Laws are actually against us, and not for us as the Christ teaches, and that Jesus came, not to free us from the death our rebellion caused, but to remove the definition of sin which they believe is against us, then they will not walk the same path Jesus walked. It will be considered "heresy" to them as it was the Mainstream Preachers of His Time.

2 Tim. 2:
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from Lawlessness. Something we "DO".

Now all that is left is for man to "believe" in Him and His Foundation and reject all the other "voices" who would have us follow a religion which practice transgression of God's Commandments..

read Romans 6-7 again. read Galatians again. there are motivating factors apart from fear of the penalty of the letter of law which impel us to live righteous lives.
You may believe you can create your own "righteousness" to live by and reject the Righteousness of God as those mainstream preachers of Christ's time did, and enter heaven on this popular path followed by Many.

But for me, I'm sticking to the Christ's definition of sin, Christ's definition of Holy, and Christ's definition of righteousness even if the religions of the land do not.
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
113
#43
No one seeks for God, no not one Romans 3

I was found by those who sought Me not,
I became manifest to those who did not ask for Me. Is 65:1
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,417
3,468
113
#44
Really, you believe that Jesus taught to live in Lawlessness as long as we do our version of "wonderful works" in His Name?

You learned this from someone, but it wasn't Jesus.
Oh but you have insulted me and attempted to shame me and you have lied about what i have been saying.. I at no state have ever declared that it is good to live in lawlessness.. You lied when you said i learned this from someone..

Everything God has declared it is good to do that is what we should strive to do.. Everything that God has declared against His will we should strive to avoid it.. BUT all our efforts at righteousness are as filthy rags to God because we humans cannot do the Law 100% correctly 100% of the time.. And thus we are doomed to eternity in the eternal lake of fire if we ever have the temerity to stand before God and seek to justify ourselves with boasts of our Law doing..

Anyone who factors in their Law doing into the Mix of what sees them saved are doomed to be cast into the eternal lake of fire because the only way to be deemed perfect before the LORD is to rely 100% on the atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ.. Once a person included their law doing into the mix they fall away from the truth and forfit their Eternal salvation..

Can you please show me the Scriptures where Jesus condoned a religion which called Him Lord, Lord, who taught in His Name, but practiced transgression of His Fathers Commandments? I don't believe it is there.
Well it's not there because it is good to do His commandments.. BUT our doing of those commandments is not what saves us.. There is a clear boundary between what saves us,, Gods Grace through Faith in the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ.. And Works..


They had spent their life in a church that claimed Jesus as their Savior. They called Him Lord, Lord. They were told their whole religious life that they were "saved by the Blood of Jesus" and nothing would take that away.
If that where true then they would not have tried to justify themselves by their works they would have said something like::

LORD LORD did we not believe your teachings and trust in the atonement you secured for our salvation on the cross..

They would not have went to their works first if they believe they where saved by grace.. The people in the scriptures went straight to their works in their effort to justify themselves in the Lords sight..

The next thing they remember is opening their eyes and seeing the lake of fire. They see Abraham and Lazarus afar off and realize that they were not part of the first resurrection that God's chosen partook of. But were of the second.
So do you believe that all who live during the 1000 years between the first and the second resurrection will be damned with no possibility of salvation?


Of course they were defending their religious traditions. They had been told by the likes of many on this form and "many many" more in the religious franchises of the land, that as long as they claimed "Belief" they were eternally secure, saved, and their works of Lawlessness meant nothing to their salvation.
Wrong.. The people in that scripture where not claiming their belief or trust in Him as justification for their salvation.. They where talking about their Wonderful WORKS..


And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work lawlessness. (Not "you that do wonderful works in My name") There is no Law against that. But they were practicing transgression of God's Commandments. Maybe like building huge churches in His Name, then placing images of God they created in the likeness of man.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, (Not Lawlessness) I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
There Lawlessness was to disbelieve Jesus and not to trust in the Atonement that He secured for their salvation.. They where not covered by the blood of the LORD because they did not rely on the Blood of the LORD to atone for their transgressions.. They where without the Law of Jesus.. Lawless..


I know this is the religious doctrines of the land that "many" people "believe". That we do not play any part in our own salvation. This is the foundation of hundreds of religions all around the world who all do great works in Christ's Name.
That's what your preaching.. salvation by The Work of law doing.. You're preaching works salvation..


But what I am trying to do is open His Word's, all of them, and find out why Jesus would say I must "Doeth them" when you and "many" who come in Christ's Name preach we "do nothing", and worse yet, if I follow Jesus as did Abraham and Peter, I am some how rejecting His Grace.
No.. I am saying that if a person thinks that their doings in regard to doing the law like not stealing or not killing or not coverting their neighbors goods or wife plays a part in their salvation then they do not have salvation..

My reply is too big for one post.. So i am posting part 2 in the next post..
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,417
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#45
Part two of the reply to Studyman..

Who is this Jesus? Not who the religions of the Land preach, but who does the Bible teach His Son is? Is He not the Word which became Flesh? Is He not the Light of the World? Did God not send Him in the very beginning?

"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."

And was it not this Jesus who spoke to Abram?

Gen. 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, ( deny yourself, take up your cross) unto a land that I will shew thee: (And Follow Me)
Don't add to the word of God..

The actual verse states::

Genesis 12: KJV
1"Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, unto a land that I will shew thee:"

No ( deny yourself, take up your cross )
No (And Follow Me)


Please answer this question. If Abraham had heard these Sayings of the Christ, and "doeth them not", would He have received the Grace of God?
If he didn't ""believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another"" then He would not have received the Grace of God.. Abraham's attempts outside of the above would not cause him to attain the Grace of God.

Abraham was not justified by His works but by Faith.. As the Holy Scriptures declare::

Romans 4: KJV

1 "What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? {2} For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. {3} For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. {4} Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. {5} But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. {6} Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, {7} Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. {8} Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."

Who will the LORD not impute sin upon? The ones that believe Jesus and have Faith in the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ to cover their sins..


John 6:
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Again you should quote the scriptures before:: Lets do so..

John 6: KJV
53 "Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. {54} Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. {55} For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. {56} He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. {57} As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. {58} This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. {59} These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. {60} Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?"61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?

I have accepted the Atoning Blood of the LORD Jesus that covers my sins 100% and obtains for me eternal life.. When i believed Jesus and trusted 100% in what He did on the cross to save me Jesus came and dwelled in me in the form of the Holy Spirit.. Jesus dwells within me.. The flesh represents the teachings of Jesus and the Blood represents the Atonement of Jesus.. Salvation comes by believing Jesus and trusting in the Atonement He secured for our salvation..

All praise and honor and boasting are for Jesus and not for any man who dares to stand before the LORD to boast about his wonderful works.. We do not purchase our salvation by our law doing.. God does not owe us a debt that he heeds to repay after the resurrection.. Salvation is a 100% pure loving gift from God that we can never repay.. That's why all glory and boasting and praising is towards and for Jesus..

Romans 3: KJV
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; {26} To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. {27} Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. {28} Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,645
6,276
113
#46
hey, studyman, when you print the 2 above posts, and study them, do a diligent job. study carefully. you will learn much truth.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#47
hey, studyman, when you print the 2 above posts, and study them, do a diligent job. study carefully. you will learn much truth.
He would have to fulfill his screen name (studyman) for that to happen. :cautious:
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
#48
="Adstar, post: 3803416, member: 243243"]Oh but you have insulted me and attempted to shame me and you have lied about what i have been saying.. I at no state have ever declared that it is good to live in lawlessness.. You lied when you said i learned this from someone..

Everything God has declared it is good to do that is what we should strive to do.. Everything that God has declared against His will we should strive to avoid it..
This is exactly what I just said in response to your preaching. This is the Gospel of Christ. Why do we do these things? Because in our old life, we didn't care about what God Considered "good" or what God considered "evil". We lived by our own definition of these things and this "work" killed us.

When we repent, a requirement placed on Salvation by the Lord Jesus Christ, we no longer practice these things, but submit to God's Righteousness. As Paul teaches.

Acts 26:
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

And as Jesus said: " And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me."

And again: "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

So your religious preaching: ""You are very wrong in proclaiming that our Works play a part in our salvation.. They don't" Is common among the great, huge religions of the land that "many" follow. But is in direct opposition to what the Word of God teaches. Jesus said if I don't "DO SOMETHING" I am not Worthy of His Grace. He said this as the Word of God which became Flesh in the person of Jesus, and as the Word of God who created all things.

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

I could post volumes of scriptures which show the same thing, but if man rejects these, they will reject the rest as well.

Matt. 7 is a warning of religious men, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, which create a Path that "many" will follow. But "practice Lawlessness". If you believe Jesus isn't talking about the Laws He created for us as the Word of God, then what can I say.

As you said: Everything God has declared it is good to do that is what we should strive to do.. Everything that God has declared against His will we should strive to avoid it

This is the truth. If we Love God, we will strive to do these things. We will suffer as Christ suffered "learning obedience". We will "walk even as He walked". We will "grow in the lord" unto the "perfect man".

But if we reject God's definition of Holy and Good, and create our own Holy, and our own Good, as did those in Matt. 23, rejecting the Righteousness of God as defined by His Word, then even though we call Him Lord, He doesn't know us.

BUT all our efforts at righteousness are as filthy rags to God because we humans cannot do the Law 100% correctly 100% of the time.. And thus we are doomed to eternity in the eternal lake of fire if we ever have the temerity to stand before God and seek to justify ourselves with boasts of our Law doing..
Again, this is "your" religion, not what the Word of God teaches.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

1 John2:
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

The implication of your religion here is that God's "GOOD" Works that He created beforehand that I should walk on them are only "GOOD" until I walk in them, then they become filthy rags. This is not only false according to basic common sense, but also according to the Scriptures.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

So God's Work's are Righteousness whether I believe in them, follow them, or reject them. as it is written: "
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Jesus didn't reject those in Matt 23 because they taught in Christ's name, Can you find a Law against that? He rejected them because they called Him Lord, Lord, but didn't "DO" what He said to do as the following scriptures detail.


Anyone who factors in their Law doing into the Mix of what sees them saved are doomed to be cast into the eternal lake of fire because the only way to be deemed perfect before the LORD is to rely 100% on the atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ.. Once a person included their law doing into the mix they fall away from the truth and forfit their Eternal salvation..
Again, this is the religion of the land that "many" follow. But how can I claim to trust in the atonement of the Christ, when I don't believe His Word's about who receives this atonement?

Your preaching "Once a person included their law doing into the mix they fall away from the truth and forfit their Eternal salvation" is fascinating.

So if I claim Faith in Jesus for remission of sins, and strive to do as He says and obey the Laws He created "for me" I am falling away and will lose my salvation.

But if I claim Faith in Jesus for remission of sins, but follow a religion which transgresses the Commandments of God by their own religious traditions, I have secured eternal salvation.

2 Paths. One directed by the Word of God which became Flesh, and one directed by the word of religious man.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
#49
="Adstar, post: 3803416, member: 243243"]


Well it's not there because it is good to do His commandments.. BUT our doing of those commandments is not what saves us.. There is a clear boundary between what saves us,, Gods Grace through Faith in the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ.. And Works..
That's right Adstar, it isn't there because it is good to obey God and Jesus never rejected anyone who was striving to obey God. Even when they sinned, their sin is forgiven because He sees they are "striving to obey Him", not some religious franchise or modern religion of the land, but the "good" "righteous" just and "holy" Laws of God..

Jesus is the one who saves us. If I am on death ROW for murder and the sentence is death, I can stop killing people for the rest of my life. But my works, although good, does not save me. I must be pardoned by a Higher Power. And this Higher Power says He gives Mercy to folks who repent and turn to Him. Not folks who turn to some popular religion which transgresses the Commandments of God by their own religious traditions.

Do you believe Jesus backed out on His Promises to those in Matt. 7? "And showing Mercy to thousands that Love Me and Keep My Commandments" or "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Why did Zechariahs in Luke 1 know Jesus when He came, but the Pharisees didn't? Did Zechariahs receive this promise, did Abraham?

If that where true then they would not have tried to justify themselves by their works they would have said something like::

LORD LORD did we not believe your teachings and trust in the atonement you secured for our salvation on the cross..

They would not have went to their works first if they believe they where saved by grace.. The people in the scriptures went straight to their works in their effort to justify themselves in the Lords sight..
We all have works Adstar. You, me and those in Matt. 7. To preach you don't have "works" is a gross self deception.

If a religion rejects the Christ's requirements He placed on Salvation, and created their own religious works, like their own "good works", their own Sabbaths, their own High Days, their own images of God in the likeness of men, but believed they were saved anyway, are they saved in your religion?

There is an insidious lie that is furthered by the Many on the Broad path and that is this. That the Pharisees were trying to "earn" Salvation by obeying God's Commandments. This is a widely taught falsehood that many believe in. It almost seems like you are accusing Jesus of rejecting these folks because they were being obedient to Him. I hope you have not been deceived by this insidious lie.

So do you believe that all who live during the 1000 years between the first and the second resurrection will be damned with no possibility of salvation?
You are assuming these died during the 1000 year Reign of Christ. Do you have any evidence that there will be a huge religion followed by "many" which call Him Lord, Lord, teach in His Name, but practices Lawlessness? Again, these are your words with zero support from the Word of God.

Wrong.. The people in that scripture where not claiming their belief or trust in Him as justification for their salvation.. They where talking about their Wonderful WORKS..
The thought they were saved Adstar. They were convinced by someone that they were on the path to eternity. That is the whole reason for this chapter. They gave Jesus the credit for everything they did. They are the poster child for the broad path. They called Jesus Lord, Lord, they may have even sung Jesus happy birthday, but because they practiced Lawlessness, they were rejected. Same as the Pharisees, same as Cain, same as Ananias. Had they did as Zechariahs and Abraham they would not have been in the second resurrection and would not be placed a position to defend their religion.


There Lawlessness was to disbelieve Jesus and not to trust in the Atonement that He secured for their salvation.. They where not covered by the blood of the LORD because they did not rely on the Blood of the LORD to atone for their transgressions.. They where without the Law of Jesus.. Lawless..
Again, who is Jesus? Is He not the Word of God which became Flesh? Did He not create the Laws He is speaking of. Can I "believe" in His Blood without believing who HE DECLARES receives it?

That's what your preaching.. salvation by The Work of law doing.. You're preaching works salvation..
I am furthering the teaching of the Christ of the Bible, you are furthering the teaching of the religions of the land.

I am showing who Jesus declares He gives His Grace to, What Jesus says are required before He will share His Gift with me.

2 Paths, one that Jesus is the King of, and the other which is controlled by the religions of the land that call Him Lord, Lord, but do not "believe" much of what he says..

No.. I am saying that if a person thinks that their doings in regard to doing the law like not stealing or not killing or not coverting their neighbors goods or wife plays a part in their salvation then they do not have salvation..
Again, I am not interested in the salvation which religious man preaches, rather, the Salvation the creator created.

2 Tim. 2:Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. (lawlessness)

So according to the Word of God, if I am stealing, or cheating on my wife, or killing, then I must first repent of these things before the Christ will share His Grace with me.. Your preaching to the contrary is common among the religions of the land, but not what the Word of God which became flesh said.

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me."

You may not want to believe these Word's of the Christ, or include them in your religious doctrines, that is your choice. But Jesus is clear, both as the Word of God and as the Man Jesus. If we don't "DO" as HE instructs, then He doesn't know us.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
#50
="Adstar, post: 3803418, member: 243243"]Part two of the reply to Studyman..


Don't add to the word of God..
The actual verse states::
Genesis 12: KJV
1"Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, unto a land that I will shew thee:"
No ( deny yourself, take up your cross )
No (And Follow Me)
Genesis 12: KJV
1"Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, unto a land that I will shew thee:"

Matt. 10:And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

How is the instruction that the Christ gave to Abram, any different than the message the Christ gave in Matt? How am I adding to God's Word by quoted Him? Just because you might not believe His Word's doesn't mean they are not true.

If he didn't ""believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another"" then He would not have received the Grace of God.. Abraham's attempts outside of the above would not cause him to attain the Grace of God.
And how do we know He "believed" the Christ? Because He disobeyed His instruction, or because he obeyed. Here is what the Word of God says.

Gen. 26:
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Shall I "Believe" These Word's, or shall I follow the words of a religion which says we have no part in our own Salvation?

Abraham was not justified by His works but by Faith.. As the Holy Scriptures declare::

Romans 4: KJV
1 "What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? {2} For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. {3} For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. {4} Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. {5} But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. {6} Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, {7} Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. {8} Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."

Who will the LORD not impute sin upon? The ones that believe Jesus and have Faith in the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ to cover their sins..
I would love to have a conversation with you about this scripture, but most on this forum refuse to engage. We will see if you follow suit. I would ask you some questions here.

#1. How was a man's sins cleansed prior to the Word of God becoming Flesh? Was there a Priesthood specifically given by the Christ to the Levites to perform sacrificial "works of the Law" for remission of sins? Surely you don't deny this.

#2. Did Abraham have the Levitical Priesthood with it's sacrificial "works of the Law" to cleanse his sins? Or was that Law "ADDED" 430 years after Abraham?

So Abraham had sins no doubt, but his sins were not forgiven by the "works of the Law" that were added 430 years later. He was justified "apart" from the Law of justification.

1 Now the LORD (Christ) had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him

So does this "work" show He believed in the Christ and His words? Had he done as Eve, in your religion, would he still be blessed? Would the Christ have still shown him Mercy?

So then Paul, who believed "ALL" things written in the Law and Prophets, understood perfectly that men's sins were forgiven "Before" the justification laws given by Moses, that the Jews were still pushing. They were forgiven because of the promises of the Christ from the very beginning.

Gen. 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

And again:

Matt. 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

And again:

Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

And again:

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. (Like He did to Noah, Abram, Zechariahs, and every other example of Faith in the Bible)

Same message front and back. How can a man claim His Blood, but not "believe" in the Word's of the Christ that gave it?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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#51
="Adstar, post: 3803418, member: 243243"]Part two of the reply to Studyman..

Again you should quote the scriptures before:: Lets do so..

John 6: KJV
53 "Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. {54} Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. {55} For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. {56} He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. {57} As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. {58} This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. {59} These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. {60} Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?"61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?[/QUOTE]

The Word's of Christ is LIFE. Many are on a path that "omits" much of His Word's in order to promote the vision of their own mind and religious traditions which are not supported by the Word of God. This is what the Pharisees did, and Eve as well.

What if Jesus goes back to being the Word of God where He was before?

His Word's are Spirit and they are Life. His Word's, not the religions of the land.

I have accepted the Atoning Blood of the LORD Jesus that covers my sins 100% and obtains for me eternal life.. When i believed Jesus and trusted 100% in what He did on the cross to save me Jesus came and dwelled in me in the form of the Holy Spirit.. Jesus dwells within me.. The flesh represents the teachings of Jesus and the Blood represents the Atonement of Jesus.. Salvation comes by believing Jesus and trusting in the Atonement He secured for our salvation..

All praise and honor and boasting are for Jesus and not for any man who dares to stand before the LORD to boast about his wonderful works.. We do not purchase our salvation by our law doing.. God does not owe us a debt that he heeds to repay after the resurrection.. Salvation is a 100% pure loving gift from God that we can never repay.. That's why all glory and boasting and praising is towards and for Jesus..
Everyone ever to name the name of Jesus believes the same thing. But Jesus says if they "practice Lawlessness" He doesn't even know them despite what they may believe or have been convinced of..

So do we have any modern examples of a religion which are populated by "MANY" but transgress God's Commandments? (practice lawlessness)

Is creating images of God in the likeness of man lawful according to the Life Giving Word's of the Christ? How about God's Sabbath that was created for man? Is it "lawful to reject them and create our own after the imaginations of our mind? How about rejecting God's Definition of Holy and creating our own? How about creating our own High Days, while rejecting the Christ's. Did Jesus, would Jesus ever condone such behavior "IN HIS NAME"?

Would Jesus ever do these things to His Father? Is this religious man's definition of "FAITH? Shall we stop our ears and hide our eyes from this "broad path" just because we may find ourselves on it?

Rev. 18:
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins,(Lawlessness) and that ye receive not of her plagues.

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

Is this not the "broad path" Jesus warned of?


Romans 3: KJV
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; {26} To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. {27} Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? (Justification by Priesthood "works of the Law) Nay: but by the law of faith. ( Love God and Love your brother) {28} Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."
You can't understand Paul if you don't know or "believe" ALL that is written in the Law and Prophets that he taught from.. If a man rejects, or "omits" the existence of the Levitical Priesthood and it's "Works of the Law" for justification of sins, then you can not understand his struggle with the Mainstream Preachers of his time who were still pushing these "Works of the Law" for justification.

This stuff was a hard pill to swallow for those religious men of Christ's time whose interest was to preserve their traditions, not serve their God.

I will be a hard pill for the "many" religious men of today as well. My hope is that you might "believe" in the warnings of the Christ and follow the Him of the Bible, and not the him of the broad path.
 

Hepzibah

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2015
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#52
It is simple really - the broad path is for those who claim that we cannot stop sinning in this life. The narrow path is for those who trust in what Christ did and sin no more.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#53
For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few
(Matthew 7:14)

interesting that He says few "find it" -- not that few "keep it" or "walk on it" etc
why would He choose this word? obviously, because it is perfect.

this word is only used one other time in the Bible, here:

And when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding no way to punish them, because of the people, for all were praising God for what had happened.
(Acts 4:21)
why does He say "find" ?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#54
For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few
(Matthew 7:14)

interesting that He says few "find it" -- not that few "keep it" or "walk on it" etc
why would He choose this word? obviously, because it is perfect.


this word is only used one other time in the Bible, here:

And when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding no way to punish them, because of the people, for all were praising God for what had happened.
(Acts 4:21)
why does He say "find" ?

we have a complement in the OT, here, with 'many' men trying to find a gate and failing, after 'few' found it -

But the men reached out their hands and brought Lot into the house with them and shut the door. And they struck with blindness the men who were at the entrance of the house, both small and great, so that they wore themselves out groping for the door.
(Genesis 19:10-11)
how are these related?

the men of Sodom had found the door, but they plotted evil in their hearts.
Lot knew the door, it was of his own house - he spoke to the men through it
the angels found the door immediately, and, blinding the men who plotted evil, shut it - grabbing Lot with their hands and pulling him in.
the men of Sodom looked for, but could not find it. they meant to use the gate for evil.
Lot hesitates - when he should have found the door, it being time to leave.
a second time, the angels take him with their hands and lead him out.
Lot hes
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#55
we have a complement in the OT, here, with 'many' men trying to find a gate and failing, after 'few' found it -

But the men reached out their hands and brought Lot into the house with them and shut the door. And they struck with blindness the men who were at the entrance of the house, both small and great, so that they wore themselves out groping for the door.
(Genesis 19:10-11)
how are these related?

the men of Sodom had found the door, but they plotted evil in their hearts.
Lot knew the door, it was of his own house - he spoke to the men through it
the angels found the door immediately, and, blinding the men who plotted evil, shut it - grabbing Lot with their hands and pulling him in.
the men of Sodom looked for, but could not find it. they meant to use the gate for evil.
Lot hesitates - when he should have found the door, it being time to leave.
a second time, the angels take him with their hands and lead him out.
Lot hes
Lot hesitates, and does not 'find the door' when it is time to leave.
the angels, a second time, with their own hands take him and the family he has with him, and bring them out ((through some gate?)), '
the LORD having mercy' on them.

interesting that Lot was contrary and disobedient to the angels all throughout this account, but for some reason ((apparently apart from obeying the heavenly messengers)) the LORD's mercy didn't depart from him.


thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; and shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
(Exodus 20:6)

why was the LORD's mercy on Lot? on Lot's daughters? on Lot's wife?

does Genesis 18:16-33 -- wherein we find an intercessor -- have anything to do with it? :unsure:
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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#56
The broad path is people attempting to earn entry into Heaven by their own efforts (good deeds or good works).

.
Or people with no thought of GOD whatsoever. Religion is not the norm today. Most give no thought to what GOD would have in their lives. This path is much broader.

Willful sin and outright stiff necked rebellion in those who profess is also a consideration in this.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#57
a couple commandments:

If you make an altar of stone for Me, you shall not build it of cut stones, for if you wield your tool on it, you will profane it.
And you shall not go up by steps to My altar, so that your nakedness will not be exposed on it.
(Exodus 20:25-26)
no wielding tools to shape your altar.
no going up to it by steps.


why?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#58
Or people with no thought of GOD whatsoever. Religion is not the norm today. Most give no thought to what GOD would have in their lives. This path is much broader.

Willful sin and outright stiff necked rebellion in those who profess is also a consideration in this.

what do such people typically say, when pressed to answer, why they should be admitted through pearly gates?

this time of year -- what do they say, whether they should receive lumps of coal or a better gift, a snake or a loaf of bread, for Christmas? they've been 'naughty' or 'nice' ?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#59
And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt:
Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself:
‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’
But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’
I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.
(Luke 18:9-14)
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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#60
what do such people typically say, when pressed to answer, why they should be admitted through pearly gates?

this time of year -- what do they say, whether they should receive lumps of coal or a better gift, a snake or a loaf of bread, for Christmas? they've been 'naughty' or 'nice' ?
Considering even those who are within feel inadequate in themselves. I can't imagine that those who are without will have to be told.

And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
(Rev 6:14-17 KJV)

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
(Gal 6:7 KJV)

However there are those who profess but will say in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
(Mat 7:22-23 KJV)


Iniquity; living a life apart from God bent towards death rather than Light; Jesus Christ our Lord.

I find Matt 7:22 interesting.

Satan is a created being living only through the life that GOD gives to all. In respect to that Where do you think satan and his cohorts draw the ability to perform miracles and prophecy?

Does satan have power in and of himself?

He was an Angel existing through HE that is, was, will be forever more.

Speaking to pagans Paul proclaimed, For it is a certainty even as your prophets have said. In HIM we live, move and have our being.

Off to worky. Have blessed day in the Light; Jesus Christ our LORD.