Trinity, lets make sense of it

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
#41
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him.

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

The Bible only attributes the Father as God.

One God who is a Holy Spirit, and that is why the Spirit moved in creation(Genesis 1:2), and Jesus was conceived by the Spirit(Matthew 1:20), and the Spirit dwells in the saints(John 14:26;Romans 8:9), and Father is a title for God, and the Son is the man Christ Jesus(Matthew 1:20-21), which He was made according to the flesh(Romans 1:,3-4), and made of a woman, made under the law(Galatians 4:4).

Jesus is the beginning of the creation of God, for He is the first plan God had before He started creation, who is the Word of God.

In the beginning was the plan of God to come in the future in flesh, and that plan was with God before He laid down the foundation of the earth, and that plan was God manifest in the flesh.

All things were made with the plan of God to come in the future in flesh, and without that plan God would of not created anything He created, for Jesus is the reason creation is successful, eternal life, and judging people and the angels.

I believe there is one God, and Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, are not 3 persons of a trinity, but the 3 ways God has a relationship with His children designated by titles.

Father- parent of the saints.

Son- God's visible relationship to the saints, and in visible activity.

Holy Spirit- God's invisible relationship to the saints, and in invisible activity.

But the same God with no distinction of persons, and Jesus created all things, came in flesh, and dwells in the saints.

The name Jesus.

The Father said He would reveal a new name to the Jews, and speak to them(Isaiah 52:5-6).

Jesus said He came in His Father's name(John 5:43).

The Son shall be called the everlasting Father(Isaiah 9:6-7).

The prophet Agur asked the question, what is His name, and what is His Son's name if you can tell, meaning they would both share the same name(Proverbs 30:4).

Jesus told Philip if he has seen Him, he has seen the Father, and the words He speaks are not His own, but the Father that dwells in Him, He does the works(John 14:7-10).

The name of the Father is Jesus.

The Son inherited the name from the Father(Hebrews 1:4).

The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus(John 14:26).

Jews(Acts 2:38), Samaritans(Acts 8:14-17), and Gentiles(Acts 19:1-5), were all baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Jesus at the right had of God.

David said, the LORD said unto my Lord, sit at My right hand until I make your enemies your footstool(Psalm 110:1).

For the Son must reign until His enemies are conquered, and when they are conquered then the Son shall submit to God the Father that God may be all in all(1 Corinthians 15:24-28).

Jesus is at the right hand of God(Psalms 110:1;Romans 8:34).

Jesus said all power is given to Me in heaven and earth(Matthew 28:18).

There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus(2 Timothy 2:5).

Jesus is God manifest in flesh(1 Timothy 3:16).

God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, God and man in harmony(2 Corinthians 5:18-19).

There is one throne in heaven, and one who sits on that throne(Revelation 4:2), which is the throne of God and the Lamb, God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus(Revelation 22:3-4).

Only a sinless man can reconcile the world unto God, but no man is sinless so God manifest Himself in flesh as the Savior of the world, and reconciled the world unto Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, God and man in harmony.

Since the man Christ Jesus is the Savior, and Mediator, God exalted the man Christ Jesus to be at His right hand, exercise the throne of power, until His enemies are conquered, and when His enemies are conquered, then there is no need for the Son to exercise the throne of power, and the Son shall submit to God, stop being at the right hand, stop exercising the throne of power, that God may be all in all.

God is ruling through the man Christ Jesus for the sake of the saints.

The only person we will see in heaven is Jesus, and if you have seen Him you have seen the Father.

Let us make man in our image.

Adam was created in the image of God(Genesis 1:26).

Adam was made in the figure of Him to come, Jesus(Romans 5:14).

The image of God is the image of Christ.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

God had the plan to come in the future in flesh, and created Adam in that image, which the image of God is the image of Christ.

So the let us make man in our image has to include the man Christ Jesus, for He is part of that image.

1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

I believe there is only one God with no distinction of persons, and Jehovah was His name in the Old Testament, which represents physical deliverance, and Jesus in the New Testament, which represents spiritual deliverance.

Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
#42
can you then explain what blaspheme against the Holy Spirit
means in the bible, using the bible ?
 

bygrace

Active member
Dec 3, 2018
150
55
28
#43
If the Holy Spirit was a person,
then Jesus would be called the Son of The Holy Spirit.
If the Holy Spirit was not to be Identified Jesus would not have called HIm the Comforter, Jesu would not say those who blasphemy aginst The Holy Spirit would not be forgiven as it would be if they said against the Son or Father.
The Holy Spirit was not one of a personality you could not blasphemy, restain, quench, grieve.

If The Holy Spirit was not one of personification He would not be able to lead you, teach you, and bring into remembrance empower you.

The Holy Spirit is known in both old and new Testaments \: Spirit of the living God, Spirit of the Lord, eternal Spirit, Spirit of the Lord God, Spirit of the Father, Spirit of truth. and many more.
 

bygrace

Active member
Dec 3, 2018
150
55
28
#44
35And the angel answered and said unto her, (The Holy Ghost) shall come upon thee,
and (the power of the Highest) shall overshadow thee: therefore also
that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called (the Son of God).

Again if it was a person, Jesus would be called the Son of the Holy Spirit.
one should never refer to the Holy Spirit as "it" that is unreverent to the Spirit of God.
 

DustyRhodes

Senior Member
Dec 30, 2016
2,117
599
113
#45
Trinity…..1 john 5

7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness on earth:[b] the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

God tells us "your ways are not My ways".
We are human, God is the Almighty.
We need to submit to Him in many things
that we may never understand. The best
way to do that is to stop intellectualizing
Him and start trusting Him. Surrendering
all of our self to Him and grasping all of
what He says will take us a long way.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
#46
one should never refer to the Holy Spirit as "it"
that is unreverent to the Spirit of God.
Then why does the bible do just that?

In Greek, as in English, the word spirit is neuter—neither masculine nor feminine in gender.
Pneuma is the Greek word meaning “spirit.” It is always grammatically neuter, properly
represented by the English pronoun “it” (John 1:32; Romans 8:16).

The Greek parakletos (comforter) is masculine in gender, so translators used the personal
pronouns he and him for the Greek masculine pronouns. In many languages, a word’s gender
has nothing to do with whether the thing itself is literally male or female. For example,
the Spanish word mesa (table) is feminine. Gender in language is a mere grammatical tool.
 

bygrace

Active member
Dec 3, 2018
150
55
28
#47
can you then explain what blaspheme against the Holy Spirit
means in the bible, using the bible ?
the example Jesus gave in Matthew and Mark was saying that Jesus cast out devils by the power of a devil. However, Jesus never said they have done so. Also, Jesus is the only one who speaks on this in the entire Bible. I think there is a very telling reason too. This is the most abusive misused term in the word of God to create condemnation and control of others. Most do not know that Jesus was admonishing the Pharisees. And the Pharisees spoke in anger and hatred for Christ yet they were ignorant of the moving of the Holy Spirit. The blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is one of knowledge. To many Christian today are suffering from the idea thy have done this and cannot be forgiven this was created by foolish want2be preachers and ill taught want2be teachers of the word.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
#48
Trinity…..1 john 5
.
I would not us that verse to define His Word

The Comma Johanneum, also called the Johannine Comma or the Heavenly Witnesses,
is a comma (a short clause) found in some manuscripts of the First Epistle of John[1] at 5:7–8.

The scholarly consensus is that that passage is [a Latin corruption] that entered the Greek
manuscript tradition in some subsequent copies.[1] The Comma and the question of its
authenticity have particular bearing on the development of the theological doctrine of the Trinity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_Johanneum

-someone added scripture to boost there view it seems.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#49
maybe in our galaxy, but surely no human knows the physics in another galaxy could be the same as ours or not then there is the particles in our galaxy with an integer spin (bosons)
The laws of physics are considered universal principles since there is only this one physical world?
 

bygrace

Active member
Dec 3, 2018
150
55
28
#50
Then why does the bible do just that?

In Greek, as in English, the word spirit is neuter—neither masculine nor feminine in gender.
Pneuma is the Greek word meaning “spirit.” It is always grammatically neuter, properly
represented by the English pronoun “it” (John 1:32; Romans 8:16).

The Greek parakletos (comforter) is masculine in gender, so translators used the personal
pronouns he and him for the Greek masculine pronouns. In many languages, a word’s gender
has nothing to do with whether the thing itself is literally male or female. For example,
the Spanish word mesa (table) is feminine. Gender in language is a mere grammatical tool.
the Bible does not call the Holy Sprit an "it" thank you. the Holy Spirit in identified as masculine in scripture those His action me be seen as gentle. the word Parakletos means one who comes to a long side to help. ONE who comes. Not it.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
#51
Jesus is the beginning of the creation of God, for He is the first plan God
had before He started creation, who is the Word of God.
.
God and the Word existed before time began.
There was never a time the Word did not exist.

God and the Word became the Father and Son.
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,719
113
#52
The Father has a Throne, the Son will have a throne.

Why does the Holy Spirit not have a throne mentioned ?
Oh so having a throne equals being God.

That argument is inherently weak and non sequitur.

Let's say Jesus doesn't have a throne, so he becomes God when he "gets one?" Was King Henry the VIII God too, he had a throne? What about King David, was he God too?

When the Holy Spirit was lied to in the NT what was said to Ananias? That he lied not to man, but to God; Acts 5:4.

Again, your argument is inherently weak and your teaching is heretical. The Holy Spirit is just as much God as the Father and the Son.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
#55
That's just plain heresy, and totally ignorant.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God...


And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with
the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

I think it is ignorant to say otherwise
 
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,198
113
#56
35And the angel answered and said unto her, (The Holy Ghost) shall come upon thee,
and (the power of the Highest) shall overshadow thee: therefore also
that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called (the Son of God).

Again if it was a person, Jesus would be called the Son of the Holy Spirit.
From John 14...


16 I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

Jesus called the Holy Spirit He and Him, not it. The Spirit is the third Person in the triune Godhead my friend.
 
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,198
113
#57
Then why does the bible do just that?

In Greek, as in English, the word spirit is neuter—neither masculine nor feminine in gender.
Pneuma is the Greek word meaning “spirit.” It is always grammatically neuter, properly
represented by the English pronoun “it” (John 1:32; Romans 8:16).

The Greek parakletos (comforter) is masculine in gender, so translators used the personal
pronouns he and him for the Greek masculine pronouns. In many languages, a word’s gender
has nothing to do with whether the thing itself is literally male or female. For example,
the Spanish word mesa (table) is feminine. Gender in language is a mere grammatical tool.
In Greek, masculine and feminine does not necessarily mean male and female.


αμαρτία is Greek for sin, and is in the feminine. That does not mean only females sin.
 

bygrace

Active member
Dec 3, 2018
150
55
28
#58
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God...


And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with
the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

I think it is ignorant to say otherwise
and the word was God
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,526
2,608
113
#59
I didn't realize there was so much confusion on the trinity.

I thought this was pretty well sorted about 1700 years ago, by the time we got to the Council of Constantinople.


This is like arguing with atheists.
They'll often pose some "new and impossible dilemma", having no idea the question first surfaced over 2500 years ago, and it's already been soundly answered for millennia.

..

...
 
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,198
113
#60
Then why does the bible do just that?

In Greek, as in English, the word spirit is neuter—neither masculine nor feminine in gender.
Pneuma is the Greek word meaning “spirit.” It is always grammatically neuter, properly
represented by the English pronoun “it” (John 1:32; Romans 8:16).

The Greek parakletos (comforter) is masculine in gender, so translators used the personal
pronouns he and him for the Greek masculine pronouns. In many languages, a word’s gender
has nothing to do with whether the thing itself is literally male or female. For example,
the Spanish word mesa (table) is feminine. Gender in language is a mere grammatical tool.
24 πνεῦμα ὁ θεός, καὶ τοὺς προσκυνοῦντας αὐτὸν ἐν πνεύματι καὶ ἀληθείᾳ δεῖ προσκυνεῖν.(John 4’

God is Spirit, pneuma ho Theos, so by using your logic, God is not a Person but an ‘it’.