Modern State of Israel: Is it biblical?

[TheDivineWatermark]

Preach the gospel to them isn't that what I just said !!! LOL 😋

No, it seems you said this instead (LOL):

There's no more Jew or gentile since 70ad! What is wrong with you??

Now, "IN CHRIST" (that is, in OUR 'STANDING' [legally/positionally] before God 'IN CHRIST' [re: "the Church which is His body"]) there is neither Jew or Gentile... but outside o'that, there is. (Romans 9-11 is all about "nations": "Israel [singular nation]," and "the Gentiles [plural nations]" and God's "governmental ways upon the earth" [in relation to these]; and Israel's past, present, and then future...[their "future" Rom11:15(25-29) especially; parallel with a number of passages I've listed before: Ezek37:12-14,20-23, Hos5:15-6:3, Dan12:1-4,10, Isa26:16-21, Jn6:39 (distinct from v.40); etc...])

 

[KJV1611]

I had added a bracket to my post after you grabbed it... not sure it will help... but here it is again:

[quoting my post with its addition]

"I believe that Acts 3:20-21 [see v.18 also re: the "SUFFERING" part that WAS fulfilled already] and also the passage YOU are pointing out in Acts, refer to something yet future."

I agree that Acts 3:20-21 is yet to be fulfilled because the restitution of all things is restoring the creation back to pre-fall times.
I don't believe rebuilding the tabernacle of David and the restitution of all things are the same events. I also believe that 23 and 24 were fulfilled.... "those days" was from the time of Christ to AD70.

Act 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Act 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

Now, besides Simeon, what passage are you meaning in your quoted post, above, specifically (again)? I want to be sure.

Act 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Simeon is giving a time stamp of when God took the gentiles as his people. It was right then when Christ came.

Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
James is saying that God taking people from the gentiles to be his people was written about in scripture.

Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
The scripture James was taking about was Amos 9. The "after this part of verse 16 is referring to Amos 9:9-10.

Amo 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
Amo 9:10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.

The "building the tabernacle of David" is Amos 9:11.

Amo 9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
The gentiles being called (Simeon and James agree was fulfilled already) is Amos 9:12

Amo 9:12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this

.

So to summarize: AFTER God has sifted Israel and collected all the good grains and killed all the sinners of his people (I don't think this AD70, I think the sword is the sword of the spirit. Then the tabernacle of David is rebuilt.

_______

And... "the kingdom of God" certainly wasn't "WITHIN" [that is, WITHIN the persons of] the Pharisees He was speaking with, do you think?

No I don't think the kingdom of God was within them... in fact they already had THAT KINGDOM, and it was taken from them.

 

[KJV1611]

[continuation of my previous post]

Allow me to post just one further paragraph+ of Gaebelein (his very next paragraph, on this topic):

[quoting]

"[in Eph4] Psalm 68:1-35 is quoted. But we discover an omission. Psalm 68:18 reads, “Thou has received gifts for men, yea, for the rebellious also, that the Lord God might dwell among them.” The last sentence is omitted [when Eph quotes it], for the rebellious are the Jews; they are as the rebellious nation not in view in Ephesians, though the day will come when Israel will be converted and the promised gifts will be bestowed upon that nation. And He who ascended also descended first into the lower parts of the earth. It means the deepest depths of suffering, the shameful death of the cross and that He was buried. (This passage has nothing to do with 1Peter 3:18 - The meaning of this Scripture will be fully explained in our annotations of the First Epistle of Peter.) As the Ascended One He has given gifts for the ministry in the body. These gifts are “apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers.” Other gifts are mentioned in First Corinthians such as the gift of healing, the gift of tongues, etc. These were not permanent gifts, and not absolutely necessary for the perfecting of the saints and the building up of the body of Christ.
"The gifts mentioned here in Ephesians abide to the end until the Church is complete and removed from the earth. The apostles are the apostles of the beginning."

[end quoting; bold and underline and bracketed inserts mine]

Psa 68:18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.

3 Things he did:
1) Ascended
2) Took the captives captive - he took them with him.
3) Gave gifts to men, ending with a semicolon.


The word "yea" is adding more information to the first statement.
The three things he did - he did for the rebellious also so that the Lord might dwell among them. The rebellious ones are found in 1 Peter 3:20. The captivity and the rebellious one's before the flood who heard Jesus' word and BELIEVED were also taken with him.

1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

 

[KJV1611]

[continued ^ ] So here is the part of Gaebelein's commentary he refers to (in the above post and quote of him) regarding 1Pet3 under discussion:

[quoting]

"The chief question is: Did our Lord go to Hades in a disembodied state? In fact, all depends on the question of what is the true meaning of the sentence, “quickened by the Spirit.” Now, according to the interpretations of the men who teach that the Lord visited Hades, the spirits in prison, during the interval between His death and the morning of the third day, He descended into these regions while His dead body was still in the grave. Therefore, these teachers claim that His human spirit was quickened, which necessitates that the spirit which the dying Christ commended into the Father’s hands had also died. This is not only incorrect doctrine, but it is an unsound and evil doctrine. Was the holy humanity of our Lord, body, soul and spirit dead? A thousands times No! Only His body died; that is the only part of Him which could die. The text makes this clear: “He was put to death in flesh,” that is, His body. There could be no quickening of His spirit, for His spirit was alive. Furthermore, the word quickening, as we learn from Ephesians 1:20 and Ephesians 2:5-6, by comparing the two passages, applies to His physical resurrection, it is the quickening of His body. To teach that the Lord Jesus was made alive before His resurrection is unscriptural. The “quickened by the Spirit” means the raising up of His body. His human spirit needed no quickening; it was His body and only His body. And the Spirit who did the quickening is not His own spirit, that is, His human spirit, but the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:11 speaks of the Spirit as raising Jesus from among the dead.

"We have shown that it was an impossibility that Christ was in any way quickened while His body was not yet raised, hence a visit to Hades is positively excluded between His death and resurrection. There is only another alternative. If it is true that He descended into these regions, then it must have been after His resurrection. But that is equally untenable. The so-called “Apostle’s Creed” puts the descent between His death and resurrection and all the other theorists follow this view. We have shown what the passage does not mean. It cannot mean a visit of the disembodied Christ to Hades, for it speaks of the quickening by the Spirit, and that means His physical resurrection."

[end quoting]

https://biblehub.com/commentaries/gaebelein/1_peter/3.htm

I don't want to waste a whole lot of time on this because I think you're mind is already made up on this. But did you know, that Joseph being cast into prison is a foreshadow of Christ going to minister to the spirits in prison? Do you know why Pharaoh did what he did on the THIRD day?

Gen 40:20 And it came to pass the third day, which was Pharaoh's birthday, that he made a feast unto all his servants: and he lifted up the head of the chief butler and of the chief baker among his servants.
Gen 40:21 And he restored the chief butler unto his butlership again; and he gave the cup into Pharaoh's hand:
Gen 40:22 But he hanged the chief baker: as Joseph had interpreted to them.

TDW, the bible is a parable from cover to cover and commentators don't get it and they will lead you in the complete opposite direction of the truth. They would be today's equivalent of Scribes and Pharisees.... Yes they know the scripture from cover to cover but had absolutely no clue what it meant. The true meaning of scripture is hidden from them, always has been and always will be. The scripture is revealed to us by the Holy Spirit. Scribes and Pharisees don't have that.

 

[KJV1611]

Ok.. wow you must have a great deal of cognitive dissonance when you try to explain were Jesus is right now and that theres still death, dying and sorrow all around us. Also, when you go to Jerusalem and see that they still have day and night plus theres no city streets of pure gold.

I guess you think Jesus is stuck sitting at the LITERAL right hand of God... Don't you know the RIGHT HAND is the hand of salvation? It's all symbolism. Jesus isn't literal sitting at the literal right hand of God, nor is the rest of the stuff you mentioned.

 

[KJV1611]

I would find it more helpful if you would just add that you are a full blown preterist

then people would not exhaust themselves trying to figure out how you come to those conclusions

it's like looking both ways at a railroad xing, seeing a freight train barreling down and standing in the middle of the tracks anyway

and then finding out 'oopsie!' that train was not metaphorical after all

I think you must not read much of what I post because I am not a preterist at all. I believe Christ will return again and I believe there will be a 1000 year reign. How does that make me a preterist, much less full blown?

Here's the difference between me and people who think everything is future. When I read this verse and verses like it, I believe them.

Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

The futurist view doesn't believe that verse, they change it to mean 2000 years later... Well Jesus did return from the grave BEFORE the disciples went to all the cities of Israel.

Oopsie I"m sorry that verse is metaphorical because it doesn't fit my theology lol.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I guess you think Jesus is stuck sitting at the LITERAL right hand of God... Don't you know the RIGHT HAND is the hand of salvation? It's all symbolism. Jesus isn't literal sitting at the literal right hand of God, nor is the rest of the stuff you mentioned.

It is NOT *all symbolism* since the fact of Christ sitting a the right hand of God the Father is repeated several times in the New Testament.

The Father is literally in Heaven, and so is the Son. The throne of God is literally in Heaven, and so is the throne of Christ. You can believe it, or disbelieve it, but you cannot downgrade it to mere symbolism. That makes God a liar.

REVELATION 4
1After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
2And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
3And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: andthere was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
4And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
5And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
6And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
7And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
8And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
9And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
10The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
11Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I think you must not read much of what I post because I am not a preterist at all. I believe Christ will return again and I believe there will be a 1000 year reign. How does that make me a preterist, much less full blown?

Here's the difference between me and people who think everything is future. When I read this verse and verses like it, I believe them.

Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

The futurist view doesn't believe that verse, they change it to mean 2000 years later... Well Jesus did return from the grave BEFORE the disciples went to all the cities of Israel.

Oopsie I"m sorry that verse is metaphorical because it doesn't fit my theology lol.

well, my mistake then, but I seem to recall some conversations where you certainly appeared to sound an awful lot like one

yet you speak of futuristic view...many events have happened so don't know why you say that

however, one verse does not a doctrine make.

at any rate, you do not agree with folks who are not preterist so.... and I'm not saying I don't believe you...

perhaps it is your stance on Israel...or your interpretations of so much being metaphorical (typical preterist view) symbolic

sorry for getting it wrong though

 

[KJV1611]

It is NOT *all symbolism* since the fact of Christ sitting a the right hand of God the Father is repeated several times in the New Testament.

The Father is literally in Heaven, and so is the Son. The throne of God is literally in Heaven, and so is the throne of Christ. You can believe it, or disbelieve it, but you cannot downgrade it to mere symbolism. That makes God a liar.

REVELATION 4
1After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
2And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
3And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: andthere was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
4And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
5And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
6And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
7And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
8And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
9And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
10The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
11Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Do you think Jesus ever gets up out of that seat goes other places or does he have to stay in that seat forever?

 

[KJV1611]

well, my mistake then, but I seem to recall some conversations where you certainly appeared to sound an awful lot like one

yet you speak of futuristic view...many events have happened so don't know why you say that

however, one verse does not a doctrine make.

at any rate, you do not agree with folks who are not preterist so.... and I'm not saying I don't believe you...

perhaps it is your stance on Israel...or your interpretations of so much being metaphorical (typical preterist view) symbolic

sorry for getting it wrong though

One verse doesn't make a doctrine and one verse doesn't contradict another verse either. When Jesus said he would return before the 12 disciples went to all the cities of Israel, he meant EXACTLY that. The problem comes in with futurist who think EVERY SINGLE mention of Christ returning is ALWAYS talking about the second advent and it's not true.

Many of the prophecies about Jesus coming again are about him returning from the grave, the resurrection. Futurists are the ones who twist "generation" into 2000 years and they do that because they won't acknowledge nor accept the fact that every mention of Jesus returning ISN'T the second advent.

I agree with futurists on some things and preterists on other things... both of those are the extremes and truth lies between the two extremes.

There are two of everything in the bible and that's because one is the spiritual version and other is the flesh or earthly version. Some say metaphorical but I say there is nothing metaphorical about it because both are real and tangible. When I say spiritual Israel or spiritual Jerusalem etc. I'm not talking about pie in the sky non-existent "spiritual", '"m talking about the spiritual being real and tangible. Israel is one of things - Spiritual Israel is just and real and tangible as flesh Israel, so is heavenly Jerusalem.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

One verse doesn't make a doctrine and one verse doesn't contradict another verse either. When Jesus said he would return before the 12 disciples wen to all the cities of Israel, he meant EXACTLY that. The problem comes in with futurist who think EVERY SINGLE mention of Christ returning is ALWAYS talking about the second advent and it's not true. Many of the prophecies about Jesus coming again are about returning from the grave, the resurrection. Futurists are the ones who two "generation" into 2000 years and they do that because they won't acknowledge nor accept the fact that every mention of Jesus returning ISN'T the second advent.

I agree with futurists on some things and preterists on other things... both of those are the extremes and truth lies between the tow extremes.

There are two of everything in the bible and that's because one is the spiritual version and other is the flesh or earthly version. Some say metaphorical but I say there is nothing metaphorical about it because both are real and tangible. When I say spiritual Israel or spiritual Jerusalem etc. I'm not talking about pie in the sky non-existent "spiritual", '"m talking about the spiritual being real and tangible. Israel is one of things - Spiritual Israel is just and real and tangible as flesh Israel, so is heavenly Jerusalem.

well good on yah

 

[Lanolin]

I guess you think Jesus is stuck sitting at the LITERAL right hand of God... Don't you know the RIGHT HAND is the hand of salvation? It's all symbolism. Jesus isn't literal sitting at the literal right hand of God, nor is the rest of the stuff you mentioned.

No never said that.
Dont guess things I never said.

 

[Lanolin]

KJV1611 what Jesus revealed to John was a vision on the Lords day.
You might look up what the Lords day is.

Am not an adventist or futurist or preterist so I dont know why you trying to argue something....we want to make sense of whats happening in the land of Israel thats all remember its Jesus birthplace where he lived, died and rose again and he still regards it as his inheritance. Why because Jesus is King of Israel...and yes he has people in his Kingdom but he also makes a new heaven and a NEW EARTH.

 

[Locutus]

There is nothing in the "land of israel" that has anything to do with prophecy.

 

[Lanolin]

There is nothing in the "land of israel" that has anything to do with prophecy.

Then you dont read your Bible check out ezekiel chapter 37 which mentions repeatedly the land God gave to Israel. Esp see verse 14 and 21 and 25

 

[KJV1611]

KJV1611 what Jesus revealed to John was a vision on the Lords day.
You might look up what the Lords day is.

Am not an adventist or futurist or preterist so I dont know why you trying to argue something....we want to make sense of whats happening in the land of Israel thats all remember its Jesus birthplace where he lived, died and rose again and he still regards it as his inheritance. Why because Jesus is King of Israel...and yes he has people in his Kingdom but he also makes a new heaven and a NEW EARTH.

I wasn’t trying to argue and I think what I wrote came out kind of smart assish but that was not my intent so I apologize. What I meant was the right hand and all the things that you mentioned are not literal. They’re real and tangible but they’re not the earthly physical things. The right hand of God is a position, not a place.

I have researched what the Lords day is and I’ve found that it’s the day of the Lord.... two different ways to say the same thing. It’s like saying “Christmas day” or “the day of Christmas“.... both are the same.

 

[KJV1611]

Then you dont read your Bible check out ezekiel chapter 37 which mentions repeatedly the land God gave to Israel. Esp see verse 14 and 21 and 25

Ezekiel 37 was fulfilled when the dead dry bones of the Old Testament saints were unearthed and lay in Jerusalem for three days.

God put sinews and flesh in them and then covered them with skin. And after the three days were over, he breathed the breath of life in them and they stood to their feet as an exceeding great army and walked the streets of Jerusalem.

Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 

[Hevosmies]

There's no more Jew or gentile since 70ad! What is wrong with you??

HAHAHAHAHA

What is wrong with you right back at him.

Did you think for more than a split second before you posted that? The verse says there is no jew or greek, MALE OR FEMALE. So are you suggesting since 70AD there are NO MORE males or females on the planet?

There you have it folks, consistent interpretation. Gender is a spectrum, and we dont really know. We are just androgynous beings.

See how consistent interpretation destroys the claim claim COMPLETELY?

Look, all the verse means is that everyone gets saved the same way.
It doesnt mean that you are no longer a japanese person if you get saved... You are still japanese, jewish, ugandan, finnish, spanish, russian, whatever after you get saved.

Reality is tough. I know.

These replacement theology guys are definately twisting to make it fit.

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

HAHAHAHAHA

What is wrong with you right back at him.

Did you think for more than a split second before you posted that? The verse says there is no jew or greek, MALE OR FEMALE. So are you suggesting since 70AD there are NO MORE males or females on the planet?

There you have it folks, consistent interpretation. Gender is a spectrum, and we dont really know. We are just androgynous beings.

See how consistent interpretation destroys the claim claim COMPLETELY?

Look, all the verse means is that everyone gets saved the same way.
It doesnt mean that you are no longer a japanese person if you get saved... You are still japanese, jewish, ugandan, finnish, spanish, russian, whatever after you get saved.

Reality is tough. I know.

These replacement theology guys are definately twisting to make it fit.

Jews and gentiles is what's being spoken of here, not male's or female's!?

......there are no more Jews or gentile, to...... just simply means what it means. The Jews being God's chosen people and the gentiles ( or the 70 Nations from Babel) God's chosen enemies were no more.

Quit getting off the subject and acting like you're superior to everyone else. Male nor female, because of the Patriarchal world they lived in woman were treated unequal, but Paul is saying no more, not in the kingdom of God. TKS 😋

 

[Locutus]

Then you dont read your Bible

I do, I do read me boyble - but unlike you futuristas I don't attempt to water it down with apologetics in disbelief. Yer not much better than atheists.

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

JC said that all prophecy would be fulfilled in the 1st century AD:

Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.