Trinity, lets make sense of it

[Zmouth]

First, church dogma doesn't reduce God down to a human, you're misunderstanding and inability to listen and be taught has done this.

Turning a man into a God is no different that reducing God down to the likeness of a man.

The bottom line is he who born of flesh is flesh. (For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. 2 John 7)

Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: (and he said that if he was speaking of himself then his witness was not true see John 5:31) John 8:14

So maybe it is you who are misunderstanding and your inability to listen to what others are saying who do not grasp what you believe might be because one speaks of what they know rather than what they believe. Since knowledge can demonstrate that knowledge without talking down to another person. So please feel free to demonstrate what the Son of man meant in the following passage:

17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
John 8:14-18

 

[KelbyofGod]

How does an omnipresent being change locations?

Omnipresent definition is - present in all places at all times
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/omnipresent

Well, if it's true that some people have the Holy Ghost in them and some do not, then perhaps your idea of omnipresence must be called into question. For example, the bible says that the spirit of God departed from Saul.... how would that be possible if your particular belief about omnipresence is correct?

1Samuel_16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

 

[Hevosmies]

If someone wants to hold a view contrary to all the major church councils, all the church creeds, and all orthodox denominations... that's fine by me.

...

Go back to Rome then. They are the majority. Why are you going against the Holy Catholic Church?

Since when were things decided by majority vote? The majority is by default most often WRONG.

Jesus said will He find faith when He returns?

 

[Hevosmies]

.

Preacher can you tell me if there is something wrong with the way I see the trinity, in my OP? Is it modalism or not?

 

[KJV1611]

And John bare record, saying, I saw [the Spirit descending]
from heaven[ like a dove], and it abode upon him

Mat 3:16 (KJV) And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

The Holy Spirit doesn’t light upon people, birds and mosquitoes do though.

Apparently God had the Spirit descend in the form of a dove so that the people could actually see The Holy Spirit enter into Jesus.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Um, say "thanks" not "I know" humble one.

All I said was, in essence, I agree with your most astute post. Thank you seeing my good point I made. So instead of boasting I just said ‘I know’. Thank you again for seeing that the only brilliance I have has been given to me via my Creator, my God, my Lord, my Savior, my Redeemer, my Sustainer, my Advocate.

 

[Zmouth]

Well, if it's true that some people have the Holy Ghost in them and some do not, then perhaps your idea of omnipresence must be called into question.

So if you have the Holy Ghost in you then tell us what Spirit departed from Saul, if there is any light in your words at all?

1Samuel_16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Matt 6:22-23

 

[Zmouth]

The Holy Spirit doesn’t light upon people, birds and mosquitoes do though.

Num 6:25
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1 John 1:5

Like the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of the eternal God, full of water and light.

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? Luke 11:13

If you listen carefully, it isn't a statement but a question.

 

[KJV1611]

Num 6:25
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1 John 1:5

Like the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of the eternal God, full of water and light.

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? Luke 11:13

If you listen carefully, it isn't a statement but a question.

Seems like a statement to me . What’s the question?

 

[Hevosmies]

Feel free to remove this thread.

I figured it out now. R.C. Sproul explained it to me in a way that I can explain it to others.

Thanks for your time people.

 

[preacher4truth]

All I said was, in essence, I agree with your most astute post. Thank you seeing my good point I made. So instead of boasting I just said ‘I know’. Thank you again for seeing that the only brilliance I have has been given to me via my Creator, my God, my Lord, my Savior, my Redeemer, my Sustainer, my Advocate.

Yes, your most humble, humbleth, humbled, humbleness.

I bet you're real proud of your hillbumnity, hucklebucknity, humbility, I mean humility!

 

[preacher4truth]

Feel free to remove this thread.

I figured it out now. R.C. Sproul explained it to me in a way that I can explain it to others.

Thanks for your time people.

Where did you hear it?

 

[Hevosmies]

Where did you hear it?

on YouTube, here:

 

[exegete]

The best example of how to "make sense of it" - at least IMO - comes from an old sermon I heard many years ago. The speaker said that we should think of the sun. I can go out on a sunny day look up at the sky and say 'I feel the sun on my face'. Now, obviously, I do not feel the sun on my face, the sun is 93 million miles away! But I feel the effect of the sun. From the sun comes the sunbeam (light). I cannot grasp the existence of the sun without the light that it emits, in fact, I only know there is a sun because of the light. That light also carries with it the heat of the sun. I feel the heat because it is carried by the sunbeam which emanates from the sun itself.

Now consider: the sun, the sunbeam and the heat cannot exist apart from each other. I cannot have a sunbeam with the sun, I cannot have the heat with out the sunbeam, and I cannot grasp the existence of the sun without the other two. But, all are part of the same thing.

In regards to the Trinity, I only know the Father because I have seen the Son (dare I say, "the Light of the World") and the Spirit brings the heat (again I dare, 'the conviction of sin' and 'tongues of fire' at Pentecost).

Now many may disagree mostly because the Trinity is not explicitedly spelled out in scripture and therefore a doctrine that should not be believed. Fine. But I will go on to make one more point...

Jesus always used parables and metaphors to communicate His message. Why? To communicate spiritual truths in a manner that the people could relate to and understand. How can an earthly man even begin to understand the complexities of an infinite God? IT IS IMPOSSIBLE !! But, I feel, that God has "broken Himself down" into smaller aspects so that - one small part at a time - I can begin to fathom His AWESOMENESS! I cannot grasp the 'wholeness' of God in one viewing, but I can look at smaller pieces and put the puzzle together.

 

[exegete]

A modalist says that liquid water, ice and steam are three different manifestations of one drop of H20.

A trinitarian says that liquid water, ice and steam are three different forms of H20 all having the same nature one drop of H20.

I would say that liquid water, ice and steam are three different molecules of H20 having different forms having different natures since the three molecules of water can not exist at the same time at the same place.

Scientifically speaking, water can exist in all 3 states at the same time. It's called the 'Triple point' and every element/compound has one. For water, it is 32.02 degrees F at 6.11657 mbar.

 

[maxwel]

Go back to Rome then. They are the majority. Why are you going against the Holy Catholic Church?

Since when were things decided by majority vote? The majority is by default most often WRONG.

Jesus said will He find faith when He returns?

I'm glad you got a good explanation from R.C. Sproul.
He was an amazing teacher.

I would have tried to explain things in a similar way,
but I wrongly assumed you'd heard this explanation, and you were just being obstinate.
My apologies.

Hope you have a great Christmas.


...

 

[bygrace]

It was a reply to those who think the Word was created.

God and the Word [2] beings,
became the Father and Son[2] beings
Jesus sitting on the right hand of God the Father[2] beings

The word was not created the word spoken was the very expression of God. Jesus is eternal because HE has always been.

 

[bygrace]

People are forgetting the devil is god of this age,
and the bible says he has the whole world deceived.

all but you of course

 

[bygrace]

Personhood is a state of being, as in childhood, motherhood, fatherhood, knighthood, widowhood, sainthood etc.

It does not describe God's state of being except to reduce him to a human level. This is church dogma you are giving us according to Sproul and Calvin et. al.

that is a humanistic position God is Spirit he communicates with man, He has emotion Anger, Joy, peace, love which HE is able to show to man. That is the ability of one with personality Jesus is God Made fresh the very expression of God God Spirit Yet man cannot restrict HIM to only that because God is too man. God is .

 

[Lanolin]

OP i dont know what modalism is either, but dont think you need to worry about it.
Just read the Bible and receive Gods word for what it is...none of us ought to worry about 'isms' that philosphers who never come to the truth keep trying to squeeze christianity into a man-made philosophy.

I have heard people talk about water, ice and steam, but the Bible talks about spirit, water and blood. So am not sure where they getting that water, ice and steam from. Jesus Christ came in the flesh, (ie. blood) if anyone denies that they dont really know who they talking about.