Should we study the rituals God gave Israel?

[gb9]

I agree that gb9 has a terrible mindset of mocking an elderly lady.


Just so you know Blik is a lovely elderly lady who lives in a care home.
The only social interaction she has is on CC.
So try showing a bit of respect. She has a great deal of experience both in
walking with Jesus and in life. She never said any of the things you accuse
her of. Yes Blik has certain traditions she was brought up with but haven’t we
all. They are harmless and she doesn’t try to force others to follow them.

Blik asks questions, draws out truths by the way she phrases things.
Which is remarkable for her age. Blik you may not realise it but you are
a teacher at heart I hope I will still have your clarity of thinking and the
ability to use all the modern technology around me when I’m your age,

Most people unfortunately are so busy and blinded by their own lack
of knowledge to correctly see what you are getting at.

I was/ am a caregiver to both my grandmothers, and a great aunt, so please do not lay the elderly thing on me.

and, yes, she has said the things I have said, just go back through her posts.

let me be as clear as I can- Sabbath keeping has 0 to do with salvation through faith in Christ.

the only way to be saved is faith and belief in Christ. that is the only way, I want all people to come to Christ and trust him for salvation. not trust in command keeping.

so, I want bilk, and all people not to be deceived into thinking their is another way. there is not.

but, since you think tommy robinson is a terrorist, and the muslim invasion and conquering of Europe is a conspiracy theory, you might want to check you own mindset....

 

[tanakh]

I get what you are saying even if the others don’t.

Folks she is not saying we can’t eat pork, must still sacrifice animals,
get circumcised etc. Blik is asking can you see the spiritual intent and
reasoning behind it. Even in the Old Testament God wanted obedience rather
than sacrifice. He wanted people who would worship Him in spirit and in truth
rather than people who obeyed the commandments. Why? Because by doing so
meant everything else fell into place.

There is a saying the New is in the Old concealed, the Old is in the New
revealed. (Testament).

I'm with you on this 100% The early Church members didn't have nice leather bound New Testaments to carry around. All their
scriptural knowledge came from the OT.

The saying you quote was coined by Saint Augustine.

 

[garee]

From studying Paul I have the understanding that Christ brought in the Holy Spirit to us all and that was the time the ceremonial law was not to be used any more.

We know the sacrificial system was a ceremonial law, and Christ is our sacrificial lamb so it is against the Lord's guidance to use that ceremony now. I think it is the same with the other ceremonies.

But the spiritual laws that the ceremonies led to is still in effect, and reading what the Lord said when God gave those laws to us helps us understand the spiritual laws they led to.

I would think if we did use the ceremonial laws like circumcision that pointed ahead as a shadow to the suffering of Christ beforehand as our bloody husband that were used as parables up until the time of the reformation .(1 Peter1:11) they would be useless as far as a shadow pointing ahead. Since they are shadows like the sabbaths we cannot judge . Today if someone used them as a way pointing back to the time of reformation as a reminder of the work of the reformation . It could be like the Christmas ceremony today .

But not all ceremonial laws were made to no effect because of the reformation for instance The water baptism (John's) is still doing its work introducing the new order of priesthood (Melchizedek) no longer after the tribe Levite according to the question asked in John 3:25. "Why is Jesus from the tribe of Judah baptizing men?" Today after men and woman are sent out with the gospel of salvation as a kingdom of priests .In that way he calls all believers kings after the order of Melchizedek. The King of kings and Lord of lords.

Psalm 110:4 The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

The reformation brought one new ordinance as a ceremonial law made up of two to be used as a shadow to come . The head/hair covering for the woman and uncovering for the man along with the breaking of bread or called the Lord's supper. Again ceremonial not something that we can judge one another with . But more a of a representative glory of the upcoming wedding supper in the new heavens and earth.

 

[Miri]

I was/ am a caregiver to both my grandmothers, and a great aunt, so please do not lay the elderly thing on me.

and, yes, she has said the things I have said, just go back through her posts.

let me be as clear as I can- Sabbath keeping has 0 to do with salvation through faith in Christ.

the only way to be saved is faith and belief in Christ. that is the only way, I want all people to come to Christ and trust him for salvation. not trust in command keeping.

so, I want bilk, and all people not to be deceived into thinking their is another way. there is not.

but, since you think tommy robinson is a terrorist, and the muslim invasion and conquering of Europe is a conspiracy theory, you might want to check you own mindset....

So if an elderly person doesn’t think quite the same as yourself, or puts things
across in quite the same way, you insult and make fun at them! Wow

By the way, nowhere in this thread did Blik say we must all not eat pork or that
salvation is not through Christ, as you keep accusing her of.

 

[Lanolin]

Its not fair to put words in other peoples mouths I have come across that here as well been accused of saying things and thinking things I didnt even mention.

People please dont jump to conclusions, read carefully what people are sharing dont assume.

Some people keep talking about the reformation, I dont know about that, didnt know it was even a thing. In the Bible, theres no reformation...Jude writes that we must earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints. And that the foundation of our faith is Jesus Christ and the apostles.

Unless that foundation has crumbled and changed, well I dont know...a foundation to me is the base..it still stands. Whatever was built on top of it...well I dont know about that all I know is from the ground up.

It is good to understand where Jesus Christ came from, his family background and history etc. its just a way of getting to know Him better. The apostles were all Israelites, so unless someone wants to disregard that...its good to know. Even Paul, apostle to the gentiles...talked about his background and was probably more strict than any of them when he was Saul but when he came to Christ he counted all his background as just dung the only thing that mattered to him was knowing Jesus. But this is because he wanted to reach out to the gentiles who obviously were not even allowed in the temple and couldnt observe any of the laws God gave through Moses. Hes not saying gentiles come under those laws again since they never observed them in the first place...

If you have the time to study then thats great but if you dont I wouldnt worry too much about it, but thing is the OT was given for our learning and we can understand Gods heart more in the way he shaped his nation Israel...and dont forget Jesus is King of this nation.

 

[Locutus]

Regardless of whether people want to "study" the rituals and victuals of the OT get this - Paul considered them bondage:

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

And that Christians were and are totally free of the rituals and victuals:

Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

Peter stated the rituals and victuals were a yoke on the neck:

Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

 

[Miri]

People just don’t get it do they.

Blik, NEVER SAID to follow the. ceremonial laws.
She NEVER SAID Jesus is not the way to salvation

She referred to the studying of the spirit behind them, the reasoning,
the intent what they referred to.

Sigh. I do wish people would actually fully read rather than skim read and miss
what was actually said.

 

[garee]

Some people keep talking about the reformation, I dont know about that, didnt know it was even a thing. In the Bible, theres no reformation...Jude writes that we must earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints. And that the foundation of our faith is Jesus Christ and the apostles.

Yes there is such a thing. The time period in which there were kings in Israel that came about because the unbelieving (no faith) Jew became jealous of the surrounding "pagan nations" . God gave them over temporally to do that which they should not of . The reformation restored the government of the church back to the days of judges . (no fleshly mediator) it is it like our King of kings said to Samuel the last Jude . Its not you they are rejecting as king to reign over them but me.

The time of reformation came when Christ said the parable has provide all it was designed to . that reformation doctrine which carries much weight has all but been forgotten about, as it would seem.

Hebrews 9:9-11 King James Version (KJV) Which was a figure (parable) for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

The foundation of our faith is the word of God . Not the apostles. Why add the apostles in that discription?

 

[garee]

Regardless of whether people want to "study" the rituals and victuals of the OT get this - Paul considered them bondage:

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

And that Christians were and are totally free of the rituals and victuals:

Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

Peter stated the rituals and victuals were a yoke on the neck:

Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Good point. In bondage to shadows (shadow worshippers) as those who walk by sight, the temporal that seen And therefore not by faith to the unseen eternal .

 

[tanakh]

I get what you are saying even if the others don’t.

Folks she is not saying we can’t eat pork, must still sacrifice animals,
get circumcised etc. Blik is asking can you see the spiritual intent and
reasoning behind it. Even in the Old Testament God wanted obedience rather
than sacrifice. He wanted people who would worship Him in spirit and in truth
rather than people who obeyed the commandments. Why? Because by doing so
meant everything else fell into place.

There is a saying the New is in the Old concealed, the Old is in the New
revealed. (Testament).

People just don’t get it do they.

Blik, NEVER SAID to follow the. ceremonial laws.
She NEVER SAID Jesus is not the way to salvation

She referred to the studying of the spirit behind them, the reasoning,
the intent what they referred to.

Sigh. I do wish people would actually fully read rather than skim read and miss
what was actually said.

People don't study the spirit behind the OT. The whole Bible is a progressive revelation of Jesus. That's why he explained it on the way to Emmaus. He is the embodiment of the Law and the Prophets. We are not expected to practice the rituals but to understand
how they reveal Christ. There are endless debates about the contents of Revelation on site but few fail to realise that almost all of that book reveals Christ through allusions to the Law and the Prophets. John and all the NT writers were led by the Holy Spirit through the OT .

 

[Locutus]

Maybe bliking heck could have included in the op an example such as what is the spiritual significance for Christians of sacrificing a pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons and how it affects our daily walk?

Luke 2:24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

 

[gb9]

People just don’t get it do they.

Blik, NEVER SAID to follow the. ceremonial laws.
She NEVER SAID Jesus is not the way to salvation

She referred to the studying of the spirit behind them, the reasoning,
the intent what they referred to.

Sigh. I do wish people would actually fully read rather than skim read and miss
what was actually said.

* never said in this thread.

said in the past. go back through her posts.

notice, in this thread, after she accused me of speaking falsehoods, I came back and said " o.k. so keeping the Sabbath is an option, but not a requirement for Christ followers.

she never agreed with this statement.

so, you see, as in the case with bilk and I, when you have been going back and forth at times , for months. you get a good grasp on what each other think.

 

[Miri]

Maybe bliking heck could have included in the op an example such as what is the spiritual significance for Christians of sacrificing a pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons and how it affects our daily walk?

Luke 2:24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

Wow you really don’t know her do you.
See my earlier post - she deserves your prayers and respect if nothing else.

 

[Miri]

* never said in this thread.

said in the past. go back through her posts.

notice, in this thread, after she accused me of speaking falsehoods, I came back and said " o.k. so keeping the Sabbath is an option, but not a requirement for Christ followers.

she never agreed with this statement.

so, you see, as in the case with bilk and I, when you have been going back and forth at times , for months. you get a good grasp on what each other think.

You don’t know her at all. What a shame and a tragedy.
Some day you will kick yourself for being so awful to her.

 

[Locutus]

Wow you really don’t know her do you.
See my earlier post - she deserves your prayers and respect if nothing else.

What's my post got to do with "knowing" the poster?

She's the one stating:

"But most of us are somewhat lacking in discipline to remember to always do, or even the knowledge of that path. God gave instructions very clearly when God gave the rituals, we need to know and understand them. "

So my question is perfectly valid in asking how studying the rituals helps us understand where we are in Christ.

 

[Miri]

What's my post got to do with "knowing" the poster?

She's the one stating:

"But most of us are somewhat lacking in discipline to remember to always do, or even the knowledge of that path. God gave instructions very clearly when God gave the rituals, we need to know and understand them. "

So my question is perfectly valid in asking how studying the rituals helps us understand where we are in Christ.

There is no need for nastiness and sarcasm.

 

[Locutus]

There is no need for nastiness and sarcasm.

How is this "nastiness and sarcasm"?

 

[Miri]

. Maybe bliking heck could have included in the op an example such as what is the spiritual significance for Christians of sacrificing a pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons and how it affects our daily walk?

Luke 2:24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

There is no need for nastiness and sarcasm.

How is this "nastiness and sarcasm"?

..............

 

[Nehemiah6]

Some people keep talking about the reformation, I dont know about that, didnt know it was even a thing. In the Bible, theres no reformation...

There is indeed. You have misunderstood what that phrase "the time of reformation" (in Hebrews 9:10) means as related to rituals: Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation*.

*Strong's Concordance
diorthósis: a making straight, rectification
Transliteration: diorthósis
Definition: a making straight, rectification [some Bibles have *new order*]

It simply means the time when the New Covenant was ESTABLISHED, and a rectification was made in how sinners must approach God. Christ's sacrifice on the cross put an end to all ceremonies pertaining to the Old Covenant. Indeed the veil in the temple was supernaturally torn from top to bottom to confirm that "IT IS FINISHED" meant it is finished.

The title of this thread says "Should we study the rituals...", and that verse above says God is done -- finished -- with the rituals. End of story. Why? Because Christ is THE REALITY who has fulfilled everything pertaining to the Old Covenant.

So now for any Christian to raise this issue is to OPPOSE GOD AND CHRIST. In other words, it is a rejection of the perfection of the finished work of Christ. And that is what the epistle to the Hebrews is all about -- a warning to Hebrew Christians to avoid reverting to Moses after Christ has set aside the Old Covenant.

 

[Nehemiah6]

There is no need for nastiness and sarcasm.

Locutus is correct. He asked a valid question, which you should have answered one way or another.