Water Baptism-What Does God's Word Say?

[mailmandan]

If Acts 2:38 is as most here suggest, that its referring to the repentance part, but not to the baptism part.

WHY is it translated the way it is? Even though many of the modern bible translators dont believe in baptismal regeneration?

It's not hard to find a Bible verse that "on the surface" appears to teach something that it doesn't and James 2:24 is a good example of a Bible verse that "on the surface" appears to teach that we are saved by works, but if you don't dig a little deeper and properly harmonize Scripture with Scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine (as I did with Acts 2:38 - Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18) then you end up with a contradiction.

In Matthew 3:11, we read - I baptize you with water for (eis) repentance.. Did John baptize in water for "in order to obtain" repentance or for "in regards to/on the basis of" repentance? Obviously you don't baptize a new believer "in order to obtain" repentance, but BECAUSE they already repented. So baptism would be "in regards to/on the basis of" repentance.

Greek scholar A. T. Robertson, was probably the greatest Greek scholar of his day. He authored a large Greek Grammar, as well as a six volume series entitled, Word Pictures in the New Testament. In his comments on Acts 2:38 he shows how the grammar of this verse can be used to support more than one interpretation of this text. He then reaches this conclusion: “One will decide the use here according as he believes that baptism is essential to the remission of sins or not. "My view is decidedly against the idea that Peter, Paul, or any one in the New Testament taught baptism as essential to the remission of sins or the means of securing such remission. So I understand Peter to be urging baptism on each of them who had already turned (repented) and for it to be done in the name of Jesus Christ on the basis of the forgiveness of sins which they had already received.” - https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/acts/acts-2-38.html

 

[Sketch]

In Matthew 3:11, we read - I baptize you with water for (eis) repentance.. Did John baptize in water for "in order to obtain" repentance or for "in regards to/on the basis of" repentance? Obviously you don't baptize a new believer "in order to obtain" repentance, but BECAUSE they already repented. So baptism would be "in regards to/on the basis of" repentance.

That's good.
The way I like to explain it is, baptism is a ceremony.
A ceremony is an outward sign of an inward reality.
Or at least it should be. My understanding is that baptism is a PUBLIC confession of faith that
FOLLOWS a personal confession of faith. The outward ceremony for the inward reality.

 

[Wansvic]

I'm going to study this. Thank you!

After study of some different bible translations I found that with only two exceptions, so far, that the meaning of the scripture in Acts 2:38 as seen by the structure of the wording are consistent.
"Repent,
and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:38

There are three different things going on here:
1. Repent, (comma)
2. and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, (comma)
3. and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The NIV and the Amplified bibles remove the comma between repent and be baptized. This gives the scripture an entirely different meaning.

 

[Wansvic]

If Acts 2:38 is as most here suggest, that its referring to the repentance part, but not to the baptism part.

WHY is it translated the way it is? Even though many of the modern bible translators dont believe in baptismal regeneration?

God preserves His words whereby people can get saved.
"The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Psalm 12:6-7

 

[7seasrekeyed]

After Jesus secured salvation through His death, burial, and resurrection, all of mankind must step out in faith and get water baptized into the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins.

nope

1Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and an earthly sanctuary. 2A tabernacle was prepared. In its first room were the lampstand, the table, and the consecrated bread. This was called the Holy Place.3Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place, 4containing the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant. Inside the ark were the gold jar of manna, Aaron’s staff that had budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant. 5Above the ark were the cherubim of glory, overshadowing the mercy seat. But we cannot discuss these things in detail now.

6When everything had been prepared in this way, the priests entered regularly into the outer room to perform their sacred duties. 7But only the high priest entered the inner room, and then only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance.

8By this arrangement the Holy Spirit was showing that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still standing. 9It is an illustration for the present time, because the gifts and sacrifices being offered were unable to cleanse the conscience of the worshiper. 10They consist only in food and drink and special washings—external regulations imposed until the time of reform.

Redemption through His Blood

11But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that have come,a He entered the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made by hands (that is, not of this creation). 12He did not enter by the blood of goats and calves, but He entered the Most Holy Place once for all by His own blood, thus securing eternal redemption.

13For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that their bodies are clean, 14how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself unblemished to God, purify our consciences from works of death, so that we may serve the living God!
15Therefore Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, now that He has died to redeem them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

16In the case of a will, it is necessary to establish the death of the one who made it, 17because a will does not take effect until the one who made it has died; it cannot be executed while he is still alive.
18That is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. 19For when Moses had proclaimed every commandment of the Law to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, along with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people, 20saying, “This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep.”

21In the same way, he sprinkled with blood the tabernacle and all the vessels used in worship. 22According to the Law, in fact, nearly everything must be purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
23So it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24For Christ did not enter a man-made copy of the true sanctuary, but He entered heaven itself, now to appear on our behalf in the presence of God.

25Nor did He enter heaven to offer Himself again and again, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26Otherwise, He would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But now He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27Just as man is appointed to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28so also Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him.

 

[Sketch]

The NIV and the Amplified bibles remove the comma between repent and be baptized.

Remove?
Remove the comma?
Who put it there in the first place?

 

[Ignorun]

After study of some different bible translations I found that with only two exceptions, so far, that the meaning of the scripture in Acts 2:38 as seen by the structure of the wording are consistent.
"Repent,
and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:38

There are three different things going on here:
1. Repent, (comma)
2. and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, (comma)
3. and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The NIV and the Amplified bibles remove the comma between repent and be baptized. This gives the scripture an entirely different meaning.

Thank you! I very much appreciate your input.

 

[Ignorun]

Remove?
Remove the comma?
Who put it there in the first place?

I think Wansvic was merely calling attention to the fact that the comma affects the reading. The comma may have been inserted by translators that they believe would follow the meaning of the Greek text by the punctuation.

 

[Wansvic]

I think Wansvic was merely calling attention to the fact that the comma affects the reading. The comma may have been inserted by translators that they believe would follow the meaning of the Greek text by the punctuation.

God left mankind with a pure word. (Psalm 12:6-7)
The fact that everyone must repent, be water baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin, and ask for and receive the Holy Ghost is scattered throughout the scriptures.

 

[mailmandan]

The fact that everyone must repent, be water baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin, and ask for and receive the Holy Ghost is scattered throughout the scriptures.

Faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony* You remain confused because you do not properly harmonize Scripture with Scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine. So where do you attend church?

 

[Sketch]

The NIV and the Amplified bibles remove the comma between repent and be baptized. This gives the scripture an entirely different meaning.

Right.
Were the commas in the original? (nope)
What are the supporting scriptures for the claim that water baptism ALONE is for the remission of sins?

 

[Sketch]

I think Wansvic was merely calling attention to the fact that the comma affects the reading. The comma may have been inserted by translators that they believe would follow the meaning of the Greek text by the punctuation.

Yes. But he also said that the "removal" of the commas effects (changes) the meaning.
This assumes the commas were in the original. I question that assumption.
Where are the supporting scriptures for the claim that water baptism ALONE is for the remission of sins?

 

[Sketch]

God left mankind with a pure word. (Psalm 12:6-7)
The fact that everyone must repent, be water baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin, and ask for and receive the Holy Ghost is scattered throughout the scriptures.

Where do you find "... water baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin... scattered throughout the scriptures." ???

 

[Wansvic]

So wansvic what about that speaking in tongues as evidence of getting the Holy Spirit? Yes or no? what do you believe?

And one more thing: Why would Jesus reject someone for being baptized the way He said? (Father, Son and Holy Spirit)?

I believe both ways are BIBLICAL and VALID because God sees the heart and because the Bible cant contain errors AND because when you know Jesus, you know He wont just say to someone on judgment day "Oh well too bad you used to wrong baptism formula, its over for you" I just dont see that as a realistic option.

Here is an article about this topic: https://carm.org/must-baptism-be-in-jesus-name

"
Therefore, the Oneness Pentecostal people are simply in error by demanding that baptism be done with the formula "In Jesus name." Instead, it should be done as Jesus commanded:

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit," (Matt. 28:19).

The proper way to baptize in Jesus' name is to say, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.""

This article agrees with me in that the name of the Lord is abbreviation on the baptismal formula laid out by Jesus. This is not just my imagination the early church witness confirms this! I can look up the references IF you take any interest in what they thought, i realize some people believe they were all heretics.

There is power in the name of Jesus.
Jesus said "All power has been given unto me. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Matt 28:18-19.
Each recorded water baptism is performed in the singular name of Jesus.

Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk. Acts 3:16

Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. Acts 4:10

But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Acts 8:12

And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, DO ALL in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him. Col 3:17

 

[Sketch]

There is power in the name of Jesus.
Jesus said "All power has been given unto me. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Matt 28:18-19.
Each recorded water baptism is performed in the singular name of Jesus.

In the "singular name of Jesus" ???
I think you are forget a few others who are of great importance. (the Father and the Holy Spirit)

I agree that there is ceremonial authority in the rite of baptism, but it is not ALONE required for the remission of sins.
Otherwise, we would have to be rebaptized every time we confess our sins.

Luke 24:47 KJV
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 10:42-43 NIV
He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

 

[Wansvic]

In the "singular name of Jesus" ???
I think you are forget a few others who are of great importance. (the Father and the Holy Spirit)

I agree that there is ceremonial authority in the rite of baptism, but it is not ALONE required for the remission of sins.
Otherwise, we would have to be rebaptized every time we confess our sins.

Luke 24:47 KJV
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 10:42-43 NIV
He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Every recorded water baptism in the entire bible is performed in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 2:38, 8:12, 10:44-48, 19:1-6)

 

[Sketch]

Every recorded water baptism in the entire bible is performed in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 2:38, 8:12, 10:44-48, 19:1-6)

Are you recommending that we ignore this?

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

 

[miknik5]

Why was the Holy Spirit poured out on the Gentiles in Acts 10; specifically, what was Peter's answer to the Jewish Christians in Acts? What relation is there with the Holy Spirit being poured out on Gentiles in Acts 10 and Peter's vision of all manner of beasts?
What is the gift of the Holy Spirit?
Here is the verse from early post: 1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
Preposition BY. By one Spirit doesn't say how they were all baptized.

However in the scripture you initially posted regarding the gentiles and peters “wake up call” not to call any thing that God makes clean, unclean, the scripture clearly shows that the Holy Spirit had come upon the gentiles because they had heard the Voice of God and believed the Gospel. All this prior to water baptism

Being baptized by the Holy Spirit is God’s necessary work because those who hear and believe are those who are marked and baptized into Christ

Water baptism is an outward sign (done by the hand of man) to declare and reveal what God has done

 

[miknik5]

Are you recommending that we ignore this?

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

No one can bring on the Holy Spirit but God

We preach the Gospel. Those who hear and believe will receive the Truth as it should be received.

As from (the mouth of) God
God sees and knows who will believe and receive the truth inwardly upon the heart. And these are those who will be baptized by The Holy Spirit who is one just as the father and the son are one.

 

[miknik5]

Naaman was made clean. Not by water but by God

All the scriptures were given to us in signs and representations to point us to Christ.

God in His grace, hid His Son in His Word.

From beginning.
To end