What became of the NT pattern of two baptisms?

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Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
83
#1
What has become of this early church pattern of two baptisms?
I see two baptisms as the pattern established by the new testament church.

The Two Baptisms:
1) Water Baptism
2) The Baptism with the Holy Spirit
Not always in this order.

Seven examples of the established two baptism pattern:
A) Prophesied by John the Baptist - Matt.3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33
B) Prophesied by Christ - Acts 1:5
C) The outpouring at Pentecost - Acts chapter two
D) The believers in Samaria - Acts 8:14-17
E) Saul’s Conversion - Acts 9:17-19
F) The house of Cornelius - Acts chapters ten and eleven
G) The disciples in Ephesus - Acts chapter nineteen

Somehow this pattern of two baptisms was not included in the Creeds of the Church,
nor included as standard doctrine. Why was it omitted?
Especially with the clear pattern we see in the scriptures listed above.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,154
29,462
113
#2
“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one
who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry.
He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."
Matthew 3:11
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,700
6,886
113
#3
Mayhaps cuz Scripture sez One Baptism?

Ephesians 4:5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

..........and, to be clear, that is the baptism of the Holy Spirit which is the baptism unto salvation..........
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#4
What has become of this early church pattern of two baptisms?
I see two baptisms as the pattern established by the new testament church.

The Two Baptisms:
1) Water Baptism
2) The Baptism with the Holy Spirit
Not always in this order.

Seven examples of the established two baptism pattern:
A) Prophesied by John the Baptist - Matt.3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33
B) Prophesied by Christ - Acts 1:5
C) The outpouring at Pentecost - Acts chapter two
D) The believers in Samaria - Acts 8:14-17
E) Saul’s Conversion - Acts 9:17-19
F) The house of Cornelius - Acts chapters ten and eleven
G) The disciples in Ephesus - Acts chapter nineteen

Somehow this pattern of two baptisms was not included in the Creeds of the Church,
nor included as standard doctrine. Why was it omitted?
Especially with the clear pattern we see in the scriptures listed above.
Probably because those were only a shadow of the real baptisms in the word and the Holy Spirit to show us the way.
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
#5
What has become of this early church pattern of two baptisms?
I see two baptisms as the pattern established by the new testament church.

The Two Baptisms:
1) Water Baptism
2) The Baptism with the Holy Spirit
Not always in this order.

Seven examples of the established two baptism pattern:
A) Prophesied by John the Baptist - Matt.3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33
B) Prophesied by Christ - Acts 1:5
C) The outpouring at Pentecost - Acts chapter two
D) The believers in Samaria - Acts 8:14-17
E) Saul’s Conversion - Acts 9:17-19
F) The house of Cornelius - Acts chapters ten and eleven
G) The disciples in Ephesus - Acts chapter nineteen

Somehow this pattern of two baptisms was not included in the Creeds of the Church,
nor included as standard doctrine. Why was it omitted?
Especially with the clear pattern we see in the scriptures listed above.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Jesus said be born of water and of the Spirit.

Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Ananias told Paul to be water baptized, and wash away his sins.

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Jews were water baptized in the name of Jesus.

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Samaritans were baptized in the name of Jesus.

Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Gentiles were baptized in the name of Jesus, and those that were baptized unto John's baptism had to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

Jesus came in His Father's name.

The Son inherited the name from the Father.

The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, something some people do not understand either.

1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Water baptism does now also save us, not the washing away of the filth of the flesh, but a good conscience towards God.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

It is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, and we have to identify with the man Christ Jesus by repenting of our sins, being water baptized, and receiving the Holy Spirit.

For if we are planted in the likeness of Jesus' death, which is by water, we shall rise to newness of life receiving the Spirit.

Water baptism is part of the salvation plan of God.

But some people want to take away water baptism, when it is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.

We cannot bypass the burial part of the Gospel, so we cannot bypass the water baptism part of salvation.

Concerning the thief on the cross, Jesus did not die yet when Jesus spoke to him, and the thief could do nothing about it for he was on the cross, so it can be bypassed in a situation like that.

But if someone reads where Jesus says you must be born of water and Spirit, and water baptism does now save us, and we have to identify with the man Christ Jesus by water baptism, will they not be accountable for it.

And if they heard a person say we must be water baptized, and they ignore it, and do not check in to it, will they be accountable for it.

Sure if you confessed Christ, and was on your way to be water baptized and you died before that happened, baptism can be bypassed, for it was in your heart to do it, but could not, but if a person knows about it, and ignores it, will they be accountable for it.
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
#6
Mayhaps cuz Scripture sez One Baptism?

Ephesians 4:5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

..........and, to be clear, that is the baptism of the Holy Spirit which is the baptism unto salvation..........
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

But Ephesians 4:4 talks of receiving the Spirit, and belonging to the body of Christ, and verse 4:5 talks about water baptism.

One baptism, G908.

baptisma
bap'-tis-mah
From G907; baptism (technically or figuratively): - baptism.

baptizō
bap-tid'-zo
From a derivative of G911; to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,700
6,886
113
#7
the water being spoken of is not water baptism........it is from the physical birth.......the breaking of the mothers water........sorry........

One Baptism unto salvation........Holy Spirit baptism..........water baptism is simply a witness of the Holy Spirit baptism. Does nothing for salvation......unless, of course, you believe in works Salvation I suppose
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,700
6,886
113
#8
John 3:6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
 

bygrace

Active member
Dec 3, 2018
150
55
28
#9
What has become of this early church pattern of two baptisms?
I see two baptisms as the pattern established by the new testament church.

The Two Baptisms:
1) Water Baptism
2) The Baptism with the Holy Spirit
Not always in this order.

Seven examples of the established two baptism pattern:
A) Prophesied by John the Baptist - Matt.3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33
B) Prophesied by Christ - Acts 1:5
C) The outpouring at Pentecost - Acts chapter two
D) The believers in Samaria - Acts 8:14-17
E) Saul’s Conversion - Acts 9:17-19
F) The house of Cornelius - Acts chapters ten and eleven
G) The disciples in Ephesus - Acts chapter nineteen

Somehow this pattern of two baptisms was not included in the Creeds of the Church,
nor included as standard doctrine. Why was it omitted?
Especially with the clear pattern we see in the scriptures listed above.

we are told Jesus is the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit In the gospel of John. We too must understand the word Baptize, Baptism, Baptizing and Baptize in context to the Greek and Hebrew words and how they are to be used.

they mean submerge in water and also mean In clothed with.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
83
#10
Mayhaps cuz Scripture sez One Baptism?

Ephesians 4:5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

..........and, to be clear, that is the baptism of the Holy Spirit which is the baptism unto salvation..........
I gave seven biblical examples of two baptisms. Did you miss that?
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
83
#11
Probably because those were only a shadow of the real baptisms in the word and the Holy Spirit to show us the way.
The "real baptisms in the word"? Tell us more. Thanks.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
83
#12
And if they heard a person say we must be water baptized, and they ignore it, and do not check in to it, will they be accountable for it.

Sure if you confessed Christ, and was on your way to be water baptized and you died before that happened, baptism can be bypassed, for it was in your heart to do it, but could not, but if a person knows about it, and ignores it, will they be accountable for it.
Do you believe not being baptized in water is a sin?
What about the baptism with the Holy Spirit?
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
83
#13
we are told Jesus is the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit In the gospel of John. We too must understand the word Baptize, Baptism, Baptizing and Baptize in context to the Greek and Hebrew words and how they are to be used.

they mean submerge in water and also mean In clothed with.
What about the two baptisms?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#14
Nothing happened. They are still applicable

1. is from God one is from man
2. One saved, one is a response to salvation
3. One is done at tyhe moment we have faith, the other is done when you chose to have it done
4. One is eternal, one is momental
5. One is an act of God, a gift. The other is an act of man, an act of obedience.

6. One is a work of God, one is a work of man.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#15
I gave seven biblical examples of two baptisms. Did you miss that?
Why did paul say there was only one? Answer that and you will hopefully see the point he was making.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
83
#16
Why did paul say there was only one? Answer that and you will hopefully see the point he was making.
That's a great example of "proof-texting".
Taking your personal opinion to the Bible in search of biblical authority.

He was talking about unity in the church, the body of Christ.
Water baptism is for that purpose, the baptism with the Holy Spirit is not.
He wasn't discussing how many kinds of baptism there are.
On that subject he would agree with me. He received both baptisms.

Which baptism are you denying?
I provided seven scriptures for you to refute.
Get to it.

Ephesians 4:3-6
Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
83
#17
Nothing happened. They are still applicable

1. is from God one is from man
2. One saved, one is a response to salvation
3. One is done at tyhe moment we have faith, the other is done when you chose to have it done
4. One is eternal, one is momental
5. One is an act of God, a gift. The other is an act of man, an act of obedience.

6. One is a work of God, one is a work of man.
Which baptism are you claiming is from man?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#19
That's a great example of "proof-texting".
Taking your personal opinion to the Bible in search of biblical authority.

He was talking about unity in the church, the body of Christ.
Water baptism is for that purpose, the baptism with the Holy Spirit is not.
He wasn't discussing how many kinds of baptism there are.
On that subject he would agree with me. He received both baptisms.

Which baptism are you denying?
I provided seven scriptures for you to refute.
Get to it.

Ephesians 4:3-6
Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
This is a great example of proof textiing. You just said I was wrong, by inserting your own opinion.

Paul is stating fact.

There is only 1 lord

There is only 1 faith (not many)

There is only one baptism (which saves) (the question is the one performed by God or the one performed by man?)

There is ony one Father

To insert the meaning of water baptism here is a flaw. It ignores the baptism perfrormed by God. And states the work of men is more powerful than the work of God. But hey, if thats what you think, It seems many agree with you.. So at least your not alone.