Jesus birth and childhood

Lanolin · Dec 28, 2018

I have a question that others might know to answer or maybe just need some clarification....
Can you tell me when Jesus was born the route his parents took, when did he go to Egypt and when did he arrive back to Nazareth. Also when did the wise men visit him in Bethlehem or did they meet him in Nazareth? . I'm still confused about that. I understand he was dedicated at the temple in Jerusalem after he was circumcised, or was he circumcised there? His parents sacrificed two turtledoves and two prophets declared him them the Messiah, but also the wise men, the shepherds and the angels knew about his birth. King Herod (who was in Jerusalem) ordered the slaughter of every male babe under two in Bethlehem but the angels warned Mary and Joseph telling them to flee into Egypt...but why Egypt could they not have gone back to Nazareth? It says so scripture is fulfilled but we arent given any detail of just how long they were in Egypt, only till King Herod had died, was that a short time or a few years??

If anyone can give a simple chronology of this would be much appreciated.

Lanolin · Dec 28, 2018

Bump..sorry I just would like to know. The birth narratives in Luke and Matthew are quite different. matthew mentions bethlehem and egypt, then Nazareth but omits the dedication in Jerusalem. LUke mentions Behtlehem, Jerusalem and then Nazareth, but omits the flight to Egypt.

TabinRivCA · Dec 28, 2018

Lanolin said:

If you can, check out 'Drive thru History' programs from this week on TBN. The narrator, Dave Stotts, covers the trail of Jesus' birth right from Israel. It's beautiful.

Lanolin · Dec 28, 2018

Aw sorry I dont get TBN, is there a link where I can see it?

TabinRivCA · Dec 28, 2018

Lanolin said:

You can catch it on YT type 'Drive thru History/watch/full episodes' or just search for it. I thought everyone got TBN, it's free on it's own station. God bless hope you find the program.

Lanolin · Dec 29, 2018

Thanks, no if its american dont get it as I dont live in america.

TabinRivCA · Dec 29, 2018

Lanolin said:

Well TBN is world-wide but if you can't find it, the program is on You Tube but some are clips.

Lanolin · Dec 29, 2018

We dont get TBN. Got Sky tv but no TBN.

Maybe if you could just write what the chronology is on here because not everyone has tv.

Lanolin · Dec 29, 2018

Or anyone....
For edification.
I mean surely some people posting on here must visited Bethlehem and can tell us how long it would take to journey to Jerusalem, Egypt or Nazareth.

Adstar · Dec 30, 2018

Jesus was born in Bethlehem..His parents went from the region of nazareth to bethlahem because Joseph was of the house of david and the Cencus of the roman Empire stipulated that the heads of families must go to their home rejion to register..

The wise men visited Jesus in Bethlehem. After visiting Herod and asking Him where the promised Messiah was prophecised to be born.. Herod's scribes told Him the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem..

This is why an angel came to Joseph in a dream to tell him to flee with Mary and Jesus to Egypt.. Because Herod fearing the loss of His Kingship soon sent out solders to kill all the children in Bethlehem under 2 years of age..

How long Jesus was in Egypt the Bible does not say..

The time taken to get to Egypt would depend on what form of transport Joseph used.. He could have went to the closest port and sailed to Alexandria.. This would have been the quickest.. He could have taken an overland route by horse and carriage this would have been the longest and even longer if the roads where in poor condition.. So no one can really tell you how long because we do not know how Joseph traveled..

Lanolin · Dec 30, 2018

Would just like to know thanks. Sorry but tbn isnt the Bible. Lukes account just contradicts Matthews account unless I am missing something. JEsus couldnt have been in two places at once, and if he was circumcised at eight days and then presented at Jerusalem, soon after his birth according to Luke - the town where Herod was...and declared Messiah by two prophets at the temple, then whats all this about fleeing by night to Egypt?! The wise men were afraid to return to Jerusalem yet in Luke Jesus is actually presented in the temple right in Jerusalem. If King Herod was smart he would have questioned Simeon and Anna or simply waited by the temple for any babies presented there. Mary and Jospeh did not stay long in Bethelehem anyway according to Luke they just visited the temple then went straight back to Nazareth.

This blog raises some questions. I do understand that Nazareth is Marys hometown and Bethlehem is Josephs. So that doesnt bother me. Its just the egypt thing. I dont get. https://remnantofgiants.wordpress.com/2018/12/13/the-two-stories-of-jesus-birth-in-bethlehem/

If people here are good at explaining trinity, predestination, tongues, the fall and everything else from the Bible surely someone can explain this.

Lanolin · Dec 31, 2018

Ok maybe a question for the elders at church then. i am not asking this cos I know already and am testing everyone, Im asking because I dont know!

Lord please show me. i mean I know Moses was brought up Egyptian, but i dont know how much of that relates to Jesus, or whether it was because God wanted him to come out of .egypt to experience the exodus. Kind of a reverse exodus if you ask me. He could have just fled to Nazareth which was in Galilee outside of Judea.

mar09 · Dec 31, 2018

Hi lanolin,

Away a few days, I just came across your thread.

It is interesting how, after hearing the Christmas birth story for so long, some details are still not clear even to me.

As you asked abt the fleeing by night to Egypt, I only understand that after realizing how the wise men have fled not leading Herod to the infant King, he was enraged and ordered the killing of all male children up to age 2, hoping to kill Jesus. While we do not know how long it took for the king to wait for the wise men to report back to him, I heard or read (from long before) that that may be some months before Herod’s order. It didn’t look like herod was smart after all, as he did not think about questioning abt babies presented at the temple-- or realize that the Magi would evade him!

Luke 2 simply says that after presenting Jesus in the Temple on the eighth day, it says in verse 39:
39 And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth.

Matt. 2 does not tell the interval from the Magi being warned in a dream not to return to Herod, but with verse 13, after they had gone (for a time), and an angel of the Lord has come to Joseph, verse 16 then says herod “gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were 2 yrs old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi.”

Lanolin · Jan 1, 2019

Yea its the timing that's not really clear.
I mean I dont think Mary and Joseph ever intended to stay in Bethlehem, but if you read Matthew it kind of implies that was going to be Jesus birthplace and home orignially, it also doesnt mention they were travelling from Nazareth for a census/taxation like Lukes narrative does. It kind of shows that because King Herod ordered the babies to be killed thats why they fled to egypt and when herod was dead, went to Galilee avoiding Judea altogether so wonder how did Jesus get presented in the temple in Jerusalem which is in Judea for the purifcation then if Joseph as afraid to even go there..? They ended up settling in Nazareth.

But if you read Lukes narrative Nazareth was Marys hometown..and they were just passing through Bethlehem. They couldnt even find a place to stay, you would think, its Josephs hometown surely they must have some relatives there why would they need to stay in an inn. But according to Matthew, the wise men met them at their house in Bethlehem, theres no mention of a manger, and there being no room.

I undesrstand maybe Matthew was at pains to draw parallels with prophecies and Moses experiences too, like how Moses was nearly destroyed at birth because Pharoah didnt want any male Hebrew children. About five times in two chapters he quotes various prophets saying this happened to fulfill this prophecy. But I do wonder just how much Matthew knew - to me Lukes account makes more sense..although I would be inclined to think why couldnt mary, heavily pregnant have stayed at home in Nazareth to give birth, Joseph just HAD to drag her all the way to Bethlehem. Most pregnant women wouldnt do a lot of travelling just as they are about to give birth. Its quite a fair way to travel from Nazareth to Bethlehem. Mary had already been to visit her pregnant cousin elizabeth a few months prior, but note her husband zacariah didnt ask her to travel anywhere. And if Matthew is correct in that say they fled to egypt on top of all that travelling from nazareth to bethlem thats a huge amount of travelling for a pregnant mum and then a young child.

Hmm bit of a puzzle

JohnRH · Jan 2, 2019

Lanolin said:

(Matthew 2:1b - 23 likely occurs between Luke 2:38 & 39). Here's my take:

1. Mary & Joseph travel from Nazareth to Bethlehem
2. Jesus is born and laid in a manger in Bethlehem
3. Shepherds visit Jesus in the manger and make it known abroad
4. Eight days later Jesus is circumcised (assumedly in Bethlehem).
5. After her purification (assumedly in Bethlehem) Mary, Joseph, & Jesus go to the temple at Jerusalem (6 miles away) to present Him to the Lord and offer the sacrifice.
6. Simeon & Anna speak at the temple.
7. Mary, Joseph, & Jesus go back to Bethlehem and are now in a house.
8. The wise men arrive at Jerusalem to inquire about where Christ is to be born. (How long between seeing the star in the east and arriving at Jerusalem? Up to two years maybe?)
9. The wise men go to the house in Bethlehem (6 miles away) and present gifts. (How long did they stay? How long until Herod realized he'd been "mocked"?)
10. The wise men go back to their own country.
11. Joseph, Mary, & Jesus go to Egypt.
12. Herod kills the children. (How long did it take to politically haggle, ratify, and implement this scheme? Up to two years maybe?)
13. Herod dies.
14. Joseph, Mary, & Jesus go back home to Nazareth (Matt. 2:23 & Luke 2:39).

Kavik · Jan 2, 2019

I think there's some difficulty in coming up with a chronology - there are two birth narratives, totally different from each other, which have been woven over time into a single nativity story we know today.

They conflict quite a bit in some cases - by the time Quirinius held his census, Herod had already been dead about 10 years. There are, of course, issues with the census as well - no Roman census would make people go back to their ancestral villages; that would be an absolute logistical nightmare. The Romans could essentially care less where you came from - they wanted to know where you lived now and how much property/land you had at your present location so they could tax you accordingly.

Though there were Jewish communities in Egypt, getting there wouldn't have been a spur of the moment thing; it would have required some planning and travel would have likely been done in a caravan with many other people.

I think things like this make any sort of chronology difficult at best - I think you'd have to do a chronology of sorts for each of the two narratives.

Lanolin · Jan 2, 2019

JohnRH said:

(Matthew 2:1b - 23 likely occurs between Luke 2:38 & 39). Here's my take:

1. Mary & Joseph travel from Nazareth to Bethlehem
2. Jesus is born and laid in a manger in Bethlehem
3. Shepherds visit Jesus in the manger and make it known abroad
4. Eight days later Jesus is circumcised (assumedly in Bethlehem).
5. After her purification (assumedly in Bethlehem) Mary, Joseph, & Jesus go to the temple at Jerusalem (6 miles away) to present Him to the Lord and offer the sacrifice.
6. Simeon & Anna speak at the temple.
7. Mary, Joseph, & Jesus go back to Bethlehem and are now in a house.
8. The wise men arrive at Jerusalem to inquire about where Christ is to be born. (How long between seeing the star in the east and arriving at Jerusalem? Up to two years maybe?)
9. The wise men go to the house in Bethlehem (6 miles away) and present gifts. (How long did they stay? How long until Herod realized he'd been "mocked"?)
10. The wise men go back to their own country.
11. Joseph, Mary, & Jesus go to Egypt.
12. Herod kills the children. (How long did it take to politically haggle, ratify, and implement this scheme? Up to two years maybe?)
13. Herod dies.
14. Joseph, Mary, & Jesus go back home to Nazareth (Matt. 2:23 & Luke 2:39).

Hmm kind of makes sense although iffy about 7. Because Luke does not say they went back to Bethlehem but straight to Nazareth back home. Bethlehem is south of Jerusalem and I dont think its on the way to Nazareth.
A conundrum...

Lanolin · Jan 2, 2019

Kavik said:

I think there's some difficulty in coming up with a chronology - there are two birth narratives, totally different from each other, which have been woven over time into a single nativity story we know today.

They conflict quite a bit in some cases - by the time Quirinius held his census, Herod had already been dead about 10 years. There are, of course, issues with the census as well - no Roman census would make people go back to their ancestral villages; that would be an absolute logistical nightmare. The Romans could essentially care less where you came from - they wanted to know where you lived now and how much property/land you had at your present location so they could tax you accordingly.

Though there were Jewish communities in Egypt, getting there wouldn't have been a spur of the moment thing; it would have required some planning and travel would have likely been done in a caravan with many other people.

I think things like this make any sort of chronology difficult at best - I think you'd have to do a chronology of sorts for each of the two narratives.

Yea also the different Herods are confusing. I probably need a time line of their reigns too.
Some translations say it was a tax not a census...I dont quite understsnd that. But then wouldnt Joseph if he had to go back to his home in Bethlehem have owned property there. If they were to be taxed.

JohnRH · Jan 2, 2019

Lanolin said:

Luke doesn't say that they went straight back to Nazareth. It says "when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord". Parents protecting their child against a known danger (Herod) was definitely "according to the law of the Lord". They would have been in violation of 'love your neighbor as yourself'. I'm sure you can go through Exodus to Deuteronomy and find several specific "things" they wouldn't have "performed" according to the law of the Lord.

Luke 2:39 And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth.

Lanolin · Jan 3, 2019

JohnRH said:

You stretching it a bit. Also you cutting scripture in half, it clearly says they returned to Galilee, to their own city Nazareth. Also according to Matthew the angel came to Joseph in a dream when they were IN Bethlehem and told them to flee to .egypt and that very night they fled. No mention of going to Jerusalem at all.

You can go through and find things that arent there, but that's what you choose to look for. I'm just looking at what the Bible plainly says for each gospel. Also in context Luke was referring to the purification ritual and the sacrifices required for a firstborn son.

Jesus birth and childhood

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