Need clarity regarding this Predestination thing and something related to an election?

[Hevosmies]

You’ve lost me here..please expound.

Its over.

Still no answer. Will never happen.

Here is my problem with these sign gifts being in use today. People will hear some speak in tongues and think that’s a gift of the Spitit. That was not the tongues the Apostles spoke. Furthermore, they also healed the sick, made the lame to walk, and raised the dead. Why don’t they go to morgues and raise the dead? Surely if tongues and healings are applicable today, so is raising the dead.

Still no answer to my question.

Do you just choose in the flesh where to live? Or do you ask God to tell you what He wants you to do with His life? The bible doesnt tell you to move to Mongolia.

This point will never be touched. EVER

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Its over.

Still no answer. Will never happen.

Still no answer to my question.

Do you just choose in the flesh where to live? Or do you ask God to tell you what He wants you to do with His life? The bible doesnt tell you to move to Mongolia.

This point will never be touched. EVER

Well, God does not make us robots, so we choose where we live, what we eat, what we where, etc. But the Bible is what tells us how to live godly in a sin-cursed world.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

@Hevosmies The Bible was given to the church and her members concerning spiritual matters, not what to wear, eat, etc. It is the way God speaks to us now concerning spiritual matters.

 

[pottersclay]

Name them please.

Edwards
Luther
Calvin
Agustin
Aquinas
Vrs
Palauguis
Eramas
Finney
Wesley
Armininis

Both sides agree in predestination but the debate is how it is done. Is it by forknowledge of us excepting Christ or by another basis.

 

[Endoscopy]

You have not proven by scriptures that harmonize, that the natural man can hear and understand the gospel before he has been regenerated.

You are delving into the quinquarticular controversy between Calvinism and Arminianism. 2 totally opposing views with scripture backing their point of view. When the elders created the creeds they stated the creeds define what a person must believe to be a Christian. Then all Biblical issues outside of the creeds was to agree to disagree. Here is the contraversy. Notice at the bottom is the Biblical defense of each.

Quinquarticular Controversy
The diametrically opposed Calvinist and Arminian 5 points

Reformed/Calvinism
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints

Arminianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace

For a deeper discussion of the differences go to these web sites,

https://www.gotquestions.org/Calvinism-vs-Arminianism.html

Arminianism vs Calvinism Controversial Passages
https://www.xenos.org/essays/calvinism-arminianism-controversial-passages

There are denominations adhering to Calvinism, Arminianism, and parts of each creating a spectrum of different views of these issues.

Calvinism Arminianism debate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Calvinist–Arminian_debate

Biblical Defense of Calvinism
https://www.fivesolas.com/tulipscriptures.htm

Biblical Defense of Arminianism
http://www.evidenceunseen.com/theology/calvinism-versus-arminianism/biblical-defense-of-arminianism/

 

[Endoscopy]

Edwards
Luther
Calvin
Agustin
Aquinas
Vrs
Palauguis
Eramas
Finney
Wesley
Armininis

Both sides agree in predestination but the debate is how it is done. Is it by forknowledge of us excepting Christ or by another basis.

There is the rub of understanding many issues in the Bible. Just as the early elders stated when they created the creeds between 212 and 500. Outside the creeds it is to agree to disagree. Each of these men have some disagreements with each other. This is the reason for all of the gospel preaching denominations. While agreeing about the gospel message each has Biblical disagreements with each other. When I was young the Presbyterian and Reformed Church of America tried to unite into a single denomination. They failed because they couldn't come up with a solution for 1 minor issue they disagreed about.

 

[Hevosmies]

Well, God does not make us robots, so we choose where we live, what we eat, what we where, etc. But the Bible is what tells us how to live godly in a sin-cursed world.

So your answer is: You dont know if you are in the will of God concerning where you are currently living, what job you should be doing, etc.

Thanks. If you say i misrepresented what you said, maybe you should of responded to my question directly.

"we choose" there it is. case closed.

 

[preacher4truth]

Again my friend, the Bible cannot tell you: Where to live, where does God want you to live, does He want you to marry, does He want you in the ministry, etc etc.

True or Not? Its true.

But you wont admit it. WATCH IT.
I wont drop it till you answer this.

Scripture is sufficient for all things concerning faith and practice, revelation of God. Just not which car to drive unless "in one accord" in Acts 2:1 is referring to a Honda.

 

[Hevosmies]

Scripture is sufficient for all things concerning faith and practice, revelation of God. Just not which car to drive unless "in one accord" in Acts 2:1 is referring to a Honda.

Ironically, it doesnt say anywhere that its sufficient for all things concerning faith and practice.

It says all scripture is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction etc.

Look.. If the Apostles had gone by that, we wouldn't even have the new testament. They would of just had the Tanakh and quoted Deuteronomy and said "it says here dont add to His words, we cant write the new testament, canon is closed, that would be adding to His word". And the Apostles could of just continued in the flesh being fishermen instead of asking for God's will for their life, which they could not find in the OT.

Its an indefensable position from scripture, cessationism that is. Easiest debate to win.
There are only three arguments to make:
1. so many fake miracles, therefore none can be real
2. God never spoke to me, therefore He cant speak to anyone
3. Canon is closed and all prophecies must be added to the bible (Even tho the Bible contains prophets whose writings arent in the canon, so unbiblical point there)

But I get it, its the pushback against the charismatic abuse of spiritual gifts, I dont care if people are cessationists. I just dont believe its biblical. Doesn't affect their salvation.

I hope you read the calvinistcorner link I posted earlier wtih an open mind. Its written by Matt slick. The ownner of CARM
Here it is: http://calvinistcorner.com/gifts.htm

 

[Endoscopy]

So your answer is: You dont know if you are in the will of God concerning where you are currently living, what job you should be doing, etc.

Thanks. If you say i misrepresented what you said, maybe you should of responded to my question directly.

"we choose" there it is. case closed.

We can be used wherever we live or work. Those are not the issue. What we do wherever we are is.

 

[Milee777]

So your answer is: You dont know if you are in the will of God concerning where you are currently living, what job you should be doing, etc.

Thanks. If you say i misrepresented what you said, maybe you should of responded to my question directly.

"we choose" there it is. case closed.

But i think... Its like we choose but by the inspiration of the Scriptures... And asking for wisdom regarding that particular area in our lives... Like for example.. You want to go to London but you have an option to go to Africa.. And then you ask the Lord regarding this situation, you ask wisdom... And then you get what you asked for. God gives you the wisdom and finally you chose Mongolia. So now.. Has the Scripture helped in making the choice... it tells us that God asks us to bring all our concerns to Him and to ask His wisdom. But the Scripture won't directly say - Son, go to Mongolia. But, indirectly.. With the help of Scripture... we make our petitions... our prayers because the Scripture shows that He cares.

 

[Hevosmies]

But i think... Its like we choose but by the inspiration of the Scriptures... And asking for wisdom regarding that particular area in our lives... Like for example.. You want to go to London but you have an option to go to Africa.. And then you ask the Lord regarding this situation, you ask wisdom... And then you get what you asked for. God gives you the wisdom and finally you chose Mongolia. So now.. Has the Scripture helped in making the choice... it tells us that God asks us to bring all our concerns to Him and to ask His wisdom. But the Scripture won't directly say - Son, go to Mongolia. But, indirectly.. With the help of Scripture... we make our petitions... our prayers because the Scripture shows that He cares.

Good way to tie things together! Thanks friend.

 

[Milee777]

But i think... Its like we choose but by the inspiration of the Scriptures... And asking for wisdom regarding that particular area in our lives... Like for example.. You want to go to London but you have an option to go to Africa.. And then you ask the Lord regarding this situation, you ask wisdom... And then you get what you asked for. God gives you the wisdom and finally you chose Mongolia. So now.. Has the Scripture helped in making the choice... it tells us that God asks us to bring all our concerns to Him and to ask His wisdom. But the Scripture won't directly say - Son, go to Mongolia. But, indirectly.. With the help of Scripture... we make our petitions... our prayers because the Scripture shows that He cares.

And maybe....something else too. Take my example. I was leaning onto people, i was directionless.. I then texted my pastor.. I just said 'i need God's guidance'... to that he replied something.. What he said was as though it was coming from God.. Because i didnt tell him any details of which area i needed guidance for... but he gave me guidance in that very area. He was to the point. I already know he is a man of God.

 

[preacher4truth]

Ironically, it doesnt say anywhere that its sufficient for all things concerning faith and practice.

It says all scripture is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction etc.

Look.. If the Apostles had gone by that, we wouldn't even have the new testament. They would of just had the Tanakh and quoted Deuteronomy and said "it says here dont add to His words, we cant write the new testament, canon is closed, that would be adding to His word". And the Apostles could of just continued in the flesh being fishermen instead of asking for God's will for their life, which they could not find in the OT.

Its an indefensable position from scripture, cessationism that is. Easiest debate to win.
There are only three arguments to make:
1. so many fake miracles, therefore none can be real
2. God never spoke to me, therefore He cant speak to anyone
3. Canon is closed and all prophecies must be added to the bible (Even tho the Bible contains prophets whose writings arent in the canon, so unbiblical point there)

But I get it, its the pushback against the charismatic abuse of spiritual gifts, I dont care if people are cessationists. I just dont believe its biblical. Doesn't affect their salvation.

I hope you read the calvinistcorner link I posted earlier wtih an open mind. Its written by Matt slick. The ownner of CARM
Here it is: http://calvinistcorner.com/gifts.htm

Doctrine, correction, reproof, instruction ARE faith and practice bro.

 

[Endoscopy]

Doctrine, correction, reproof, instruction ARE faith and practice bro.

At 74 and being raised a Christian I am still learning more. We never stop learning. I came across some books about codes in the Torah. There were the names of 20th century men with birth and death dates. Also in 2 messianic sections the Name of Jesus with "it is he" along with the names of his disciples replacing Judas with the one named to replace him. These codes prove beyond all doubt that the original language of the Bible is really authored by God!!

 

[preacher4truth]

At 74 and being raised a Christian I am still learning more. We never stop learning. I came across some books about codes in the Torah. There were the names of 20th century men with birth and death dates. Also in 2 messianic sections the Name of Jesus with "it is he" along with the names of his disciples replacing Judas with the one named to replace him. These codes prove beyond all doubt that the original language of the Bible is really authored by God!!

Um. Documentation?

 

[Endoscopy]

Um. Documentation?

The books I have are:
The Bible Code
263 pages
Bible Code II the Countdown
291 pages
Both by Michael Drosnin

Bible Prophecy Proved Through The Mysterious Bible Codes
192 pages
By Grant R. Jeffrey

In these books the awesome foreknowledge of God is proven. A Bible Code is found in the Old Testament by starting with an original language text starting with a letter and using an interval counting forwards or backwards finding a message. In the Torah 20th century mens names with birth and death dates were found. In 2 messianic scriptures the name of Jesus with "it is he" and the 11 names of his disciples with the name of the one replacing Judas listed. Only 11 because 2 had the same name. Many other codes were found.

God caused the authors of those books write them with those codes embedded. Thus proving they were authored by God.

The first codes were found by rabbis looking at the beginning of the 5 books of the Torah. 4 had one word while the fifth had a different word. This caused the Israeli Institute similar to MIT in the US to have some some programing students create a software program to search the books of the Old Testament for more codes book by book. They released the program for anyone who wanted it. Thus the above books about the codes were created.

 

[preacher4truth]

The books I have are:
The Bible Code
263 pages
Bible Code II the Countdown
291 pages
Both by Michael Drosnin

Bible Prophecy Proved Through The Mysterious Bible Codes
192 pages
By Grant R. Jeffrey

In these books the awesome foreknowledge of God is proven. A Bible Code is found in the Old Testament by starting with an original language text starting with a letter and using an interval counting forwards or backwards finding a message. In the Torah 20th century mens names with birth and death dates were found. In 2 messianic scriptures the name of Jesus with "it is he" and the 11 names of his disciples with the name of the one replacing Judas listed. Only 11 because 2 had the same name. Many other codes were found.

God caused the authors of those books write them with those codes embedded. Thus proving they were authored by God.

The first codes were found by rabbis looking at the beginning of the 5 books of the Torah. 4 had one word while the fifth had a different word. This caused the Israeli Institute similar to MIT in the US to have some some programing students create a software program to search the books of the Old Testament for more codes book by book. They released the program for anyone who wanted it. Thus the above books about the codes were created.

Well, bless your heart sir. The Bible doesn't need an outside source and imho it all proves, well, what P. T. Barnum allegedly said.

Looks like other books can magically do the same things: https://www.nelsonprice.com/bible-code-exposed/

 

[ForestGreenCook]

But how does the Holy Spirit reveal things to people my friend? By His word.

You keep repeating the same things that I tell you. I just said that the Holy Spirit reveals "the understanding of the gospel" which is the same as "revealing his word". The thing is; it is not revealed until after regeneration.

 

[Endoscopy]

Well, bless your heart sir. The Bible doesn't need an outside source and imho it all proves, well, what P. T. Barnum allegedly said.

Looks like other books can magically do the same things: https://www.nelsonprice.com/bible-code-exposed/

ROFL
Try telling that to an atheist. They will laugh at you for your magic fairy in the sky!! They ridicule the Bible. Therefore I use science to prove to them big bang evolution is debunked by science and evidence in the Bible proves their assertions are false. These codes prove this assertion of mine about the Bible absolutely being created by God.