Daniel 9:25 & 26

[Hevosmies]

There are many last days. Have to look at context.

Then they arent last but second last.

Anyhow: Do you believe Matthew 24:36 is talking about the rapture? (pre trib)

I ask because when you read Matthew 24, it lists a BUNCH OF signs that are extremely easy to notice. Then all of a sudden in v36 it says no man knows the day or hour, but surely we can tell easily from the signs He just finished telling.
Its almost as if Jesus switches topics mid-air. Or its an idiom that I dont understand. Maybe it means we cant tell a specific DAY but we can tell the season, go figure

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then they arent last but second last.

Anyhow: Do you believe Matthew 24:36 is talking about the rapture? (pre trib)

I ask because when you read Matthew 24, it lists a BUNCH OF signs that are extremely easy to notice. Then all of a sudden in v36 it says no man knows the day or hour, but surely we can tell easily from the signs He just finished telling.
Its almost as if Jesus switches topics mid-air. Or its an idiom that I dont understand. Maybe it means we cant tell a specific DAY but we can tell the season, go figure

I know many think that, i can say it might be, still open for someone to showsomething else

 

[Hevosmies]

I know many think that, i can say it might be, still open for someone to showsomething else

Same im also open.

No matter which way you look at it: post trib or pre trib its kind of strange.

On the post-trib side how can "no one know the day or hour" when He just listed a bunch of signs that are easy to see by everyone?
On the pre-trib side how come Jesus just switches topics to a pre-trib rapture on the fly without explaining it to the disciples?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Same im also open.

No matter which way you look at it: post trib or pre trib its kind of strange.

On the post-trib side how can "no one know the day or hour" when He just listed a bunch of signs that are easy to see by everyone?
On the pre-trib side how come Jesus just switches topics to a pre-trib rapture on the fly without explaining it to the disciples?

(I think I may have already said this to you, so if so, please disregard )

… "but of that day and hour knoweth [PERFECT TENSE] no man [not even Jesus]" is not saying no one CAN EVER know, or no one WILL EVER know (I believe Jesus has known ever since His resurrection/ascension, and then He later disclosed further information ON THAT SUBJECT: His Second Coming to the earth context, in The Revelation [95ad]--again, see the wording in Rev1:1).

And as a pre-tribber, I do not believe Jesus covered the subject of our Rapture (at all) in His Olivet Discourse (which is all about His Second Coming to the earth, FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom [and the specific time period that immediately LEADS UP TO and PRECEDES THAT])… if that's what your second question is asking.

 

[Hevosmies]

(I think I may have already said this to you, so if so, please disregard )

… "but of that day and hour knoweth [PERFECT TENSE] no man [not even Jesus]" is not saying no one CAN EVER know, or no one WILL EVER know (I believe Jesus has known ever since His resurrection/ascension, and then He later disclosed further information ON THAT SUBJECT: His Second Coming to the earth context, in The Revelation [95ad]--again, see the wording in Rev1:1).

And as a pre-tribber, I do not believe Jesus covered the subject of our Rapture (at all) in His Olivet Discourse (which is all about His Second Coming to the earth, FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom [and the specific time period that immediately LEADS UP TO and PRECEDES THAT])… if that's what your second question is asking.

Why couldnt Matthew 24:36 and Matthew 24:38ff be about the rapture? No signs there.

Think about it: How can people be marrying and given in marriage and drink and eat and everything going well if the book of revelation seals trumpets and vials are being poured out and its absolute devastation on every corner with mark of the beast going on and all the natural disasters?

Everyone knows at what our the Lord doth come if we got all those signs preceding it.

But then again, WHY would Jesus just switch topics randomly without further explaining to the disciples. Oy vey!

No wonder we got differing views on the olivet discourse

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Why couldnt Matthew 24:36 and Matthew 24:38ff be about the rapture? No signs there.

Well, yeah, for one thing, I think "But of THAT day and hour" (v.36) refers back to something previous in the context, namely verses 33 "[when...] …know that IT is near, even at the doors" as well as verse 28's "so shall also the coming of the Son of man be"

(and as I've mentioned in past posts, all "Son of man cometh/coming of/shall come/etc" verses/passages are about His Second Coming to the earth... not our Rapture).

I believe that "the beginning of birth PANGS" (verses 4-8) are the equivalent of the SEALS of Rev6 at the START of the 7-yr trib, and that the chapter (Mt24) progresses in time from there.

Think about it: How can people be marrying and given in marriage and drink and eat and everything going well if the book of revelation seals trumpets and vials are being poured out and its absolute devastation on every corner with mark of the beast going on and all the natural disasters?

Well, at the 6th Trumpet/2nd Woe [6th Trumpet events, and just before and/or at 2nd Woe] time slot [note, I believe the 5th Trumpet/1st Woe is the MID-trib point], (at 6th Trumpet events) people are sending gifts to one another, and "make merry [or celebrating]," per Revelation 11:10... so this is after the mid-trib point as I see it (and the 5th Trumpet/1st Woe events had at least "5 months" time attached to it, and add to that the time-frame of the 6th Trumpet events, for the 2nd Woe concludes that set); my own study of the chronology of it places it closer to about the "3/4-of-the-way-through" point in time.

My understanding is that it's not stating that things are hunky dory, but that people are focused on the things of this life [even basic things] rather than on the things of God and the fact that He is [will be, at that future time frame] indeed "coming" to reign. They will be disregarding God's Word, "just as in the days of Noah" (who was a "preacher of righteousness," and likely whom they could see building an ark for a number of years leading up to the flood judgment, and then the parade of animals heading to get to it shortly before...yet, it says, "they knew not until the flood came...". It's not that they did not have a bunch of warning(/warning-time), it's that they disregarded God's Word via Noah... Noah's not the one who "knew not until," he knew and believed and prepared the ark; "they" who were "all" taken away in judgment, had disregarded every means of warning--this, I believe, is the main thrust of the passage before us)

Everyone knows at what our the Lord doth come if we got all those signs preceding it.

Except, again, this is not the point of the words "but of that day and hour KNOWETH [PERFECT tense] no man"... Perfect tense means (pretty much) "until further information is supplied which changes that status" (which is what I believe Jesus supplied in the later writing of The Revelation, detailed "timing" issues from Seal #1 to His Rev19 "return" to the earth [all of this aspect being the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" thing]).

Jesus' point is NOT to say everyone's forbidden to ever "know," or it's impossible for anyone to ever "know"... etc... (just "knoweth [perfect tense] no man/one..." at the time He spoke that.

But then again, WHY would Jesus just switch topics randomly without further explaining to the disciples. Oy vey!

Yeah, I don't think He is.

No wonder we got differing views on the olivet discourse

At the time Jesus spoke His Olivet Discourse, He had not yet spoken to them ANYTHING regarding "rapture," but HAD ALREADY spoken to them about the circumstances surrounding His Second Coming to the earth (in Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50), which formed the basis of their LATER Q to Him in Matt24:3 (regarding "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" which they understood rightly would be followed by "the age [singular] to come" [Matt12:32 preceding chpt 13], what we call "the promised and prophesied earthly MK," commencing upon His "return" to the earth--they just did not grasp the TIMING of it). This is what He responding about in and throughout the rest of the 2 chpts (24-25).

 

[Bookends]

I saw that, and replied, it does not change anything,
Judgment occures After the abomination of desolation, it has not occured yet.


Ouch, psalms 2 tells us what this rod of iron means,

2 Why do the nations rage,
And the people plot a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
And the rulers take counsel together,
Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us break Their bonds in pieces
And cast away Their cords from us.”
4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;
The Lord shall hold them in derision.
5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath,
And distress them in His deep displeasure:
6 “Yet I have set My King
On My holy hill of Zion.”
7 “I will declare the decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
9 You shall break them with a rod of iron;
You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’ ”
10 Now therefore, be wise, O kings;
Be instructed, you judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear,
And rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry,
And you perish in the way,
When His wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.

Rod of iron is a term of judgment, Jesus will break the nations and kings who disobey and dash them to peaces, he will have order in his kingdom

And you know i love you to bro, even though we disagree, we do not attack as many do, and i appreciate our conversations,

The Rod of Iron is strong and it reigns forever even now. I was dashed by this Rod of Iron when I realized I needed a savior. All Christians were dashed by this Rod of Iron, in which God is putting back together piece by piece. My problem and perhaps so many others, is that I try to put the pieces together myself. This usually ends up with repentance and a re-surrender to God's almighty power/will and ways in which I don't understand. This my friend is the purpose of the Rod of Iron, it is at work from the time of Christ and will be to his second coming.

Look close at the psalm you quoted. While Jesus has the Rod of Iron, the nations will rage (your millennium view is a time perfect peace on earth). The raging nations is now and has been since Christ's kingdom begin at His 1st coming, Yet God put Christ on the throne (verse 6). People now (and back then) want to throw off the bonds (chords) of God, however, God's wants us relinquish control to Him, not by a forceful way, but the emptying of our hearts. Jesus wants us to be a part of that, to be change agents in other peoples lives, to be ambassador's of His Kingdom to the lost. You are so blinded by your literacy that you can't see it true meaning and implication. God over and over use the physical/tangible things to help us understand the spiritual. And after saying this, I suppose I should stop trying to get people to see.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Rod of Iron is strong and it reigns forever even now. I was dashed by this Rod of Iron when I realized I needed a savior. All Christians were dashed by this Rod of Iron, in which God is putting back together piece by piece. My problem and perhaps so many others, is that I try to put the pieces together myself. This usually ends up with repentance and a re-surrender to God's almighty power/will and ways in which I don't understand. This my friend is the purpose of the Rod of Iron, it is at work from the time of Christ and will be to his second coming.

Look close at the psalm you quoted. While Jesus has the Rod of Iron, the nations will rage (your millennium view is a time perfect peace on earth). The raging nations is now and has been since Christ's kingdom begin at His 1st coming, Yet God put Christ on the throne (verse 6). People now (and back then) want to throw off the bonds (chords) of God, however, God's wants us relinquish control to Him, not by a forceful way, but the emptying of our hearts. Jesus wants us to be a part of that, to be change agents in other peoples lives, to be ambassador's of His Kingdom to the lost. You are so blinded by your literacy that you can't see it true meaning and implication. God over and over use the physical/tangible things to help us understand the spiritual. And after saying this, I suppose I should stop trying to get people to see.

Well i thought i could have a normal conversation, but i see that is not to be,
Believe what you want.

I could say you are blind also, but would never say it because it is not a valid argument to support ones view. All t does is make you look bad, as if you can not support your own argument.

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

There are many last days. Have to look at context.

What do you mean, there are many last days? Is this 'last days' according to scripture? TKS 😋

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Same im also open.

No matter which way you look at it: post trib or pre trib its kind of strange.

On the post-trib side how can "no one know the day or hour" when He just listed a bunch of signs that are easy to see by everyone?
On the pre-trib side how come Jesus just switches topics to a pre-trib rapture on the fly without explaining it to the disciples?

mid trib? Lol

I think some things we will not know as fact until they happen

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What do you mean, there are many last days? Is this 'last days' according to scripture? TKS 😋

Last days end of tribulation
Last days end of the time of gentiles
Last days end of the earth

Again, what is context!