Water Baptism-What Does God's Word Say?

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G

garee

Banned
#221
Mar 28, 2016
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#221
Wansvic said:
Even those in the Old Testament were told that if they did not circumcise as commanded by God, the people were no longer considered of God.

God commanded Abraham to circumcise all male children:
“This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.” Genesis 17:10-14

Moses was also told to circumcise all male children. His disobedience almost cost him his life.

“And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him, and sought to kill him.
Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.
So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.” Exodus 4:24-26

OT= circumcision
NT= Water Baptism

"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead." Col 2-11:12
Click to expand...
OT circumcision = a ceremonial law that pictures Christ our suffering husband beforehand.
OT Water Baptism= a ceremonial law required when a new priest entered the Priesthood.
NT Water Baptism= a ceremonial law under the new order of a priesthood of believers as a kingdom of priest after the manner of Melchezedek.... Christ our high priest from the tribe of Judah, no longer after the tribe of Levi. But after all the nations of the world (John3:25)
OT and NT= the baptism of the holy Spirit which comes as the Holy Spirit gives us ears to hear the gospel.

Genesis 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

Psalm 110:4 The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
 
G

garee

Banned
#222
Mar 28, 2016
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#222
djdearing said:
Hi there,

The promises were only to Israel, and a light unto the Gentiles (Romans 9:3-5). As far as Peter was concerned at this point, "To all that are afar off" is referring to the diaspora, the Jews scattered. Consider this also, Peter many years later,

"And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost." -Acts 10:45

In the middle of Acts we start to see the transition from Peter's ministry with the Twelve, to Paul the apostle to the Gentiles. Unto him first was revealed the mystery of gospel, the one new man, Jew and Gentile in one body. The cross wasn't even preached as good news until Paul. Up until then it was proclaimed as a murder indictment to Israel. You killed the Messiah, Repent and be baptized.
Click to expand...

The promises were only to Christ's bride the church.She is made up of many lively stones that makes up the unseen spiritual house of God, Zion, the heavenly City signified as the mother of us all.

The suffering of Christ beforehand was preached from the beginning . The Blood o Abel cries out. Not all of Israel killed the Messiah. Just the ones that were hopping their Jewish flesh could profit for something. God puts no difference between a Jew and a gentile, male or female. What we are is not what we will be.
 
D

djdearing

Guest
#223
#223
garee said:
The promises were only to Christ's bride the church.She is made up of many lively stones that makes up the unseen spiritual house of God, Zion, the heavenly City signified as the mother of us all.

The suffering of Christ beforehand was preached from the beginning . The Blood o Abel cries out. Not all of Israel killed the Messiah. Just the ones that were hopping their Jewish flesh could profit for something. God puts no difference between a Jew and a gentile, male or female. What we are is not what we will be.
Click to expand...
Read this:

"...Israelites; TO WHOM pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the PROMISES; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came... (ROMANS 9)

There it is my friend. The mystery of the gospel, which Peter did not know just yet, was that in Christ there is no difference. Christ's bride as the church who is made up of both Jew and Gentile was a mystery hidden. So again, Peter didn't know this at the time.

We Gentiles were never given promises, but we receive all spiritual blessings in Christ by faith. Yes, we too were chosen since before the foundation of the world but prophetically speaking Israel only saw Gentile blessing through their RISE, not through their fall.
 
G

garee

Banned
#224
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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#224
djdearing said:
Read this:

"...Israelites; TO WHOM pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the PROMISES; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came... (ROMANS 9)

There it is my friend. The mystery of the gospel, which Peter did not know just yet, was that in Christ there is no difference. Christ's bride as the church who is made up of both Jew and Gentile was a mystery hidden. So again, Peter didn't know this at the time.

We Gentiles were never given promises, but we receive all spiritual blessings in Christ by faith. Yes, we too were chosen since before the foundation of the world but prophetically speaking Israel only saw Gentile blessing through their RISE, not through their fall.
Click to expand...
The same Israelites reject any promise to the gentiles. Abraham had two gentile parents .

I would offer. It's never been about the flesh of one nation. Abel was saved by grace according to the hearing of Christ's faith that worked in Abel to both will and do the good pleasure of God.

Again all Israel are not born again Christians the new name he called His people previously called the Israel. The gospel is not about the flesh of men. Even the Son of man Jesus declared His Jewish flesh profits for nothing. It is the pouring out of the unseen Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit of God that does quicken the souls of men

Acts 15:8-10 King James Version (KJV) And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
 
D

djdearing

Guest
#225
#225
garee said:
The same Israelites reject any promise to the gentiles. Abraham had two gentile parents .

I would offer. It's never been about the flesh of one nation. Abel was saved by grace according to the hearing of Christ's faith that worked in Abel to both will and do the good pleasure of God.

Again all Israel are not born again Christians the new name he called His people previously called the Israel. The gospel is not about the flesh of men. Even the Son of man Jesus declared His Jewish flesh profits for nothing. It is the pouring out of the unseen Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit of God that does quicken the souls of men

Acts 15:8-10 King James Version (KJV) And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Click to expand...

You got it. "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel.....They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."

And we all know this truth! "Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham."
 
Sketch

Sketch

Well-known member
#226
Nov 1, 2018
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#226
Wansvic said:
Please provide the scriptures indicating the use of the formula of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost?
Click to expand...
Is this what you are looking for?

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
 
D

djdearing

Guest
#227
#227
garee said:
OT circumcision = a ceremonial law that pictures Christ our suffering husband beforehand.
OT Water Baptism= a ceremonial law required when a new priest entered the Priesthood.
NT Water Baptism= a ceremonial law under the new order of a priesthood of believers as a kingdom of priest after the manner of Melchezedek.... Christ our high priest from the tribe of Judah, no longer after the tribe of Levi. But after all the nations of the world (John3:25)
OT and NT= the baptism of the holy Spirit which comes as the Holy Spirit gives us ears to hear the gospel.

Genesis 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

Psalm 110:4 The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
Click to expand...

There's no water in Colossians 2 my friend. There is more than one baptism in the bible and they don't all involve water.

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit." (This is the baptism that places us into Christ)

Don't forget this one either,

"And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;"
 
G

garee

Banned
#228
Mar 28, 2016
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#228
djdearing said:
There's no water in Colossians 2 my friend. There is more than one baptism in the bible and they don't all involve water.

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit." (This is the baptism that places us into Christ)

Don't forget this one either,

"And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;"
Click to expand...
Two kinds of baptisms . One cerinomial and the other done without hands called salvation.
 
D

djdearing

Guest
#229
#229
garee said:
Two kinds of baptisms . One cerinomial and the other done without hands called salvation.
Click to expand...

Besides the baptism unto Moses there three baptisms in this verse alone. And there are more.

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire”
 
I

Ignorun

Active member
#230
Dec 18, 2018
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#230
djdearing said:
There's no water in Colossians 2 my friend. There is more than one baptism in the bible and they don't all involve water.

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit." (This is the baptism that places us into Christ)

Don't forget this one either,

"And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;"
Click to expand...
DJ
Would you be so kind to tell what baptisms in Acts are water baptisms. I mean to simply ask which do you believe include water and which do not. I thank you.
 
D

djdearing

Guest
#231
#231
Ignorun said:
DJ
Would you be so kind to tell what baptisms in Acts are water baptisms. I mean to simply ask which do you believe include water and which do not. I thank you.
Click to expand...
In the book of Acts all are water baptisms expect for I think twice when Spirit baptism is mentioned by name. Is that why you were asking?
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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#232
Nov 27, 2018
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#232
djdearing said:
Hi there,

The promises were only to Israel, and a light unto the Gentiles (Romans 9:3-5). As far as Peter was concerned at this point, "To all that are afar off" is referring to the diaspora, the Jews scattered. Consider this also, Peter many years later,

"And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost." -Acts 10:45

In the middle of Acts we start to see the transition from Peter's ministry with the Twelve, to Paul the apostle to the Gentiles. Unto him first was revealed the mystery of gospel, the one new man, Jew and Gentile in one body. The cross wasn't even preached as good news until Paul. Up until then it was proclaimed as a murder indictment to Israel. You killed the Messiah, Repent and be baptized.
Click to expand...
Jesus made the following comments regarding water baptism:
Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Mark 16:16-17
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Please provide scriptural proof that water baptism was a sign that would cease.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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#233
eternally-gratefull said:
Yep, keep trying, like the jews, to add works to the gospel.

God will not a cept your payment, he will only a cept his sons, but if you think he will accept yours, all the power to you
Click to expand...
I am providing scriptural proof for the comments regarding our obedience to what God expects as shown in His Word. I am not adding anything. Am strictly pointing to the scriptures. So if you have a problem with what is being shared you will have to take that up with the Lord.
 
D

djdearing

Guest
#234
#234
Wansvic said:
Jesus made the following comments regarding water baptism:
Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Mark 16:16-17
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Please provide scriptural proof that water baptism was a sign that would cease.
Click to expand...

Not trying to be rude when I say this :)

But I will try and answer your question if you will first answer this.

Continue the next verse in Mark you posted.

Mark 16:17-18 KJV
[17] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Show me the believers with those signs. Or maybe you would like to cast out some devils, speak in a language you’ve never learned, use your gift of healing, take up a deadly serpent, and drink something deadly?

I didn’t think so ;)

My point is, something has changed.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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#235
Nov 27, 2018
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#235
djdearing said:
Hi there,

The promises were only to Israel, and a light unto the Gentiles (Romans 9:3-5). As far as Peter was concerned at this point, "To all that are afar off" is referring to the diaspora, the Jews scattered. Consider this also, Peter many years later,

"And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost." -Acts 10:45

In the middle of Acts we start to see the transition from Peter's ministry with the Twelve, to Paul the apostle to the Gentiles. Unto him first was revealed the mystery of gospel, the one new man, Jew and Gentile in one body. The cross wasn't even preached as good news until Paul. Up until then it was proclaimed as a murder indictment to Israel. You killed the Messiah, Repent and be baptized.
Click to expand...
Paul's ministry did not exclude Peter's instruction of laying the foundation through obedience to God's command for each of us to repent, be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and to receive the Holy Ghost. Paul's ministry was to further educate believers regarding Christian living; thus building upon the laid foundation that was expressed on the Day of Pentecost.

Read Paul's own words regarding water baptism:
Rom 6:3-6
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Col 2:11-14
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
 
D

djdearing

Guest
#236
#236
Wansvic said:
Paul's ministry did not exclude Peter's instruction of laying the foundation through obedience to God's command for each of us to repent, be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and to receive the Holy Ghost. Paul's ministry was to further educate believers regarding Christian living; thus building upon the laid foundation that was expressed on the Day of Pentecost.

Read Paul's own words regarding water baptism:
Rom 6:3-6
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Col 2:11-14
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Click to expand...
You’re making the common mistake of assuming everywhere you see baptism you read water into it. Consider a word study on this in the New Testament and you will see it doesn’t always mean immersion with water involved.
 
I

Ignorun

Active member
#237
Dec 18, 2018
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#237
djdearing said:
John 1:31
And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.

Water baptism is intimately associated with Israel. Paul's epistles to the church do not include one single verse or instruction to ensure all converts are water baptized.
Click to expand...
DJ,
What Paul did not write is not as important as what he did write. One could argue, since Paul didn't include one single verse or instruction to the church to ensure all converts are water baptized suggests the converts, the congregations understood water baptism and were taught the truth concerning it.
 
I

Ignorun

Active member
#238
Dec 18, 2018
180
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#238
djdearing said:
Not trying to be rude when I say this :)

But I will try and answer your question if you will first answer this.

Continue the next verse in Mark you posted.

Mark 16:17-18 KJV
[17] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Show me the believers with those signs. Or maybe you would like to cast out some devils, speak in a language you’ve never learned, use your gift of healing, take up a deadly serpent, and drink something deadly?

I didn’t think so ;)

My point is, something has changed.
Click to expand...
Hello DJ
Good point. I hope you don't mind me responding. You have another one you are discussing with.
I haven't been able to read all the previous posts. If you would like me to bow out, that's fine.
You make a good point, again.
My response would be: The miraculous portion that you (appropriately) present as a challenge does not parallel the doctrine concerning baptism. The miraculous signs would cease. But that does not mean that the doctrine of those who used those signs would necessarily change.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#239
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
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113
#239
djdearing said:
Not trying to be rude when I say this :)

But I will try and answer your question if you will first answer this.

Continue the next verse in Mark you posted.

Mark 16:17-18 KJV
[17] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Show me the believers with those signs. Or maybe you would like to cast out some devils, speak in a language you’ve never learned, use your gift of healing, take up a deadly serpent, and drink something deadly?

I didn’t think so ;)

My point is, something has changed.
Click to expand...
Respectfully, things have not changed. Jesus said He is the same today, yesterday and forevermore. God's Word is established.
Devils are cast out in Jesus' name. His power still applies today. Upon asking for and receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost speaking in an unknown tongue occurs on a daily basis throughout the world. I was recently healed by following the Word's instruction to call for prayer by the elders of the church. A complete healing of a medical problem that hindered my life for the past 14 years took place with no pain medication withdrawal and no adverse side effects. As far as drinking something deadly that had no effect --only God knows. And of course I wouldn't tempt God by messing with any serpents.

I know that God's Word is the same yesterday, today and forevermore. If people are not experiencing what is recorded within its pages you can be guaranteed the fault is not on God's end.

Jesus said to ask the Father for the Holy Spirit and He will give it:
"And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" Luke 11:9-13
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#240
#240
Wansvic said:
I am providing scriptural proof for the comments regarding our obedience to what God expects as shown in His Word. I am not adding anything. Am strictly pointing to the scriptures. So if you have a problem with what is being shared you will have to take that up with the Lord.
Click to expand...
Your saying they are required for salvation. And your wrong..

And yes, I have a problem with people espousing a false gospel of works
 
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