From Peter to Paul - Just a few noteworthy differences worth considering

djdearing · Jan 11, 2019

Peter - Israel still standing, prophecy being fulfilled. (Acts 2:16-17; 3:21,24-26)
Paul - Israel fallen, prophecies postponed. (Rom 3:10,19;11:11,25; 16:25)

Peter - "Salvation is of the Jews" led by the twelve apostles. (John 4:22; Mat 19:28; 1 Pet 1:10; Rev 21:14)
Paul - Salvation sent to Gentiles through Paul. (Rom 11:13; Col 1:25; 2 Tim 1:11; 1 Cor 3:10)

Peter - Separation between Jew and Gentile, Israel God’s chosen people, Gentiles blessed through Israel. (Mat 10:5; Luke 24:49; Acts 11:19)
Paul - No longer Jew nor Gentile but all are part of a new creature in Christ called his Body. (Gal 3:28; Col 3:11; Eph 2:15; 1 Cor 12:13)

Something new happened after the "great commission" and Paul is not one the Twelve.

"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began"

dcontroversal · Jan 12, 2019

You might want to study some more......you are missing numerous facts about Paul.........

Nehemiah6 · Jan 12, 2019

djdearing said:

Paul is not one of the twelve until he becomes one the twelve.

But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel (Acts 9:15)

ACTS 26
15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Noblemen · Jan 12, 2019

djdearing said:

Peter - Israel still standing, prophecy being fulfilled. (Acts 2:16-17; 3:21,24-26)
Paul - Israel fallen, prophecies postponed. (Rom 3:10,19;11:11,25; 16:25)

Peter - "Salvation is of the Jews" led by the twelve apostles. (John 4:22; Mat 19:28; 1 Pet 1:10; Rev 21:14)
Paul - Salvation sent to Gentiles through Paul. (Rom 11:13; Col 1:25; 2 Tim 1:11; 1 Cor 3:10)

Peter - Separation between Jew and Gentile, Israel God’s chosen people, Gentiles blessed through Israel. (Mat 10:5; Luke 24:49; Acts 11:19)
Paul - No longer Jew nor Gentile but all are part of a new creature in Christ called his Body. (Gal 3:28; Col 3:11; Eph 2:15; 1 Cor 12:13)

Something new happened after the "great commission" and Paul is not one the Twelve.

"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began"

Good scriptures, folk have a hard time seperating them, to their lack of knowledge. It is easier to lump them together and say "here is our gospel, we are spiritual Isreal" that don't work.

JaumeJ · Jan 12, 2019

Nehemiah6 said:

Paul is not one of the twelve until he becomes one the twelve.

But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel (Acts 9:15)

ACTS 26
15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

The twelth Apostle was chosen by drawing lots by th eother eleven after the loss of Judah……..He is Mattias.

Adstar · Jan 12, 2019

This makes absolutely no sense.. Paul was a Jew.. If Paul was preaching that all Israel was fallen then He would be declaring himself to be fallen.. Obviously Paul was saved a saved Jew and thus not fallen..

Romans 3: KJV
10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

This verse is simply stating that all are sinners Both Jew and Gentile it is saying Nothing about Israel being fallen.. So why quote it as if it is stating that Israel is all fallen?

Romans 3: KJV
19 "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God."

This verse is stating that the Law makes all people guilty because no one can do all the law without failure.. This is the same for Jews and Gentiles.. Paul was making no statement here that all Israel was fallen.. So why quote this verse as proof that Paul was stating that all Israel was fallen? When it clearly is not stating that..

Romans 11: KJV
11 "I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy."

If this stating that ALL Israel are fallen? Nope. it is asking a QUESTION.. The Jews ( not all) stumbled by rejecting their Messiah Jesus but does that mean they all where then doomed to fall? Nope on the day of Pentecost 3000 Jewish souls where added to the saved and a number of the took part in the stumble when they took part in the execution of Jesus.. But they repented and believed and where saved.. Now why would Paul state that God was provoking the Jews to become jealous? If God was not still after the Jews to save them as individuals He would not bother to make them jealous..

Romans 11: KJV
25 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

Did you read those two very important words "" in part "" NOT ALL but a part of Israel was blinded.. Jesus Himself made it clear to the Apostles long before Paul became a believer how the Jews In part where blinded::

Matthew 13: KJV
10"And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? {11} He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. {12} For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. {13} Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. {14} And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: {15} For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."

Romans 16: KJV
25 "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,"

What does this verse have to do with the Jews being fallen or not? It is making no such statement either way..

JaumeJ · Jan 12, 2019

There is more than one Israel.
It's in the Book.

Hevosmies · Jan 12, 2019

More material from the Dallas theological cemetary?

Oy vey.... This has been refuted so many times, it gets tiring.

John the Baptist before the cross:

Matthew 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

THE APOSTLE PAUL AFTER THE CROSS:

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

djdearing · Jan 12, 2019

Hevosmies said:

Well of course, "For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me". To the Gentiles is what they had a problem with. Paul's message was not in opposition to the gospel of the circumcision, it was in keeping with it, but his gospel was according to the revelation of the mystery. Therefore Gentile blessing was coming earlier than expected, apart from Israel's rise in the kingdom of heaven. By the way, John's baptism for the remission of sins was to prepare Israel for accepting Messiah. "And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water."

djdearing · Jan 12, 2019

Adstar said:

This makes absolutely no sense.. Paul was a Jew.. If Paul was preaching that all Israel was fallen then He would be declaring himself to be fallen.. Obviously Paul was saved a saved Jew and thus not fallen..

Romans 3: KJV
10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

This verse is simply stating that all are sinners Both Jew and Gentile it is saying Nothing about Israel being fallen.. So why quote it as if it is stating that Israel is all fallen?

Romans 3: KJV
19 "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God."

This verse is stating that the Law makes all people guilty because no one can do all the law without failure.. This is the same for Jews and Gentiles.. Paul was making no statement here that all Israel was fallen.. So why quote this verse as proof that Paul was stating that all Israel was fallen? When it clearly is not stating that..

Romans 11: KJV
11 "I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy."

If this stating that ALL Israel are fallen? Nope. it is asking a QUESTION.. The Jews ( not all) stumbled by rejecting their Messiah Jesus but does that mean they all where then doomed to fall? Nope on the day of Pentecost 3000 Jewish souls where added to the saved and a number of the took part in the stumble when they took part in the execution of Jesus.. But they repented and believed and where saved.. Now why would Paul state that God was provoking the Jews to become jealous? If God was not still after the Jews to save them as individuals He would not bother to make them jealous..

Romans 11: KJV
25 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

Did you read those two very important words "" in part "" NOT ALL but a part of Israel was blinded.. Jesus Himself made it clear to the Apostles long before Paul became a believer how the Jews In part where blinded::

Matthew 13: KJV
10"And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? {11} He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. {12} For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. {13} Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. {14} And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: {15} For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."

Romans 16: KJV
25 "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,"

What does this verse have to do with the Jews being fallen or not? It is making no such statement either way..

You misinterpret what I said. Of course they are blind in part, I agree with that. The point that should be made is Why Paul? Gentile blessing was prophesied to come through Israel's rise, but it was a mystery kept secret that even though the nation as whole rejected their Messiah, that Gentiles would receive all spiritual blessings in Christ. Furthermore, that the church, which is His body, is neither Jew or Gentile, the one new man. Now don't get me wrong, Israel as a nation has prophecy yet to fulfill, and when the fulness of the Gentiles be come in, it will come to pass that all Israel shall be saved. It's time to get on board with what God has revealed through his chosen vessel Paul. He's not done with the Twelve either. They will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel, make no mistake.

Nehemiah6 · Jan 12, 2019

JaumeJ said:

Matthias was a *temporary fill-in*. No disrespect to him, but the apostle Paul was the 12th apostle by every measure. Please read the start of every epistle by Paul, starting with Romans 1:1.

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God...

djdearing · Jan 12, 2019

Nehemiah6 said:

Hi Nehemiah6, let me explain why the evidence is irrefutable. Please read.

“Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection. “ -Acts 1:21-22

The new apostle would be given the authority of the remaining eleven in being witnesses of the ministry and resurrection of Jesus. As such, they were required to:

Have accompanied with the disciples during Jesus’ ministry while on earth
Had to have followed Jesus and the disciples in John’s baptismal ministry
Had to have witnessed the resurrection and ascension of Jesus

It came down to Barsabas and Matthias. Paul did not meet any of these qualifications.

After prayer and casting of lots, Matthias was ordained the twelfth apostle and witness.

“And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.”

Maybe Peter made a mistake? Remember that before Jesus’ ascension he gave Peter the keys of the kingdom of heaven:

“And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Also Jesus’ taught the disciples the rule of two:

“Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.”

Not only so, but through their prayer and the promise provided by Jesus himself the disciples could have expected to see God’s approval in the appointment process.

“And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son."

So then, there seems to be no Scriptural reason that Peter made a mistake in numbering Matthias with the eleven.

****And most importantly Matthias is confirmed by the Holy Spirit and PAUL in Acts 2:4 and 1 Cor 15:5-8.****

"And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

"And that he was seen of Cephas, THEN OF THE TWELVE..." (THAT'S PAUL TALKING THROUGH INSPIRATION OF THE SPIRIT)

Nehemiah6 · Jan 12, 2019

djdearing said:

And yet we do not find a single action of Matthias recorded in Scripture.

As I said, he was a temporary fill in, but who wrote over half of the New Testament, and who traveled with the Gospel more extensively than any other apostle, and planted more churches than any other apostle?

Even Stephen and Philip are mentioned in Acts, but nary a word about Matthias. The drawing of lots was not the same as the express election of Paul by God and Christ.

Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother... (1 Cor 1:1)
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia... (2 Cor 1:1)

Hevosmies · Jan 12, 2019

Not sure if Paul is one of the original or not but does it matter? He is an apostle none the less.

djdearing · Jan 12, 2019

Nehemiah6 said:

I'm amazed at everything you just dismissed, even Paul, who did not meet the qualifications, whom you say took over for Judas, declared Matthias as part of the Twelve. Either you didn't read what I presented or you forsook it for your own faulty logic, and an made an assertion that is wholly unsupported.

Or could it be sir, that God had something huge in store, the dispensation of the grace of God given to him for us (Eph 3:2). God didn't show his hand until he was ready. He is the apostle to the Gentiles appointed by the risen Christ and said the Twelve added nothing to him (Gal 2:5-7).

Consider all of this my friend, and let scripture interpret scripture.

"But if any man be ignorant, let him bet ignorant."

JaumeJ · Jan 13, 2019

Nehemiah6 said:

You are the very first flesh I have heard say this about Mattias. You must understand all who are "sent out" by God are apostles to this day, however the men of renouwn mentioned in Zachariah are the ones chosen by God. I was sent out many years ago, but this does not make me one of the Twelve.......Also Mattias fufliss the prophecy of him in the Psalms........"let another take his place., in refernce to Judah.

Do not argue the point with me for your doctrine is not mentioned in the Word......Mattias prophesied, Paul not. Thonly one who refers to Paul as an apostle is Paul......he is correct, as far as the definition of the word apostle goes, but he is not one of the Twelve.

dcontroversal · Jan 13, 2019

JaumeJ said:

Yep....and never acknowledged by God, and Paul states clearly that he took the place of Judas as "one born out of due time"........

JaumeJ · Jan 13, 2019

YOu have said it………..Paul states .

JaumeJ · Jan 13, 2019

Judas Iscariot's place as one of the twelve was taken by a man named Matthias. (Acts 1:21-26) -- further -- Some have supposed that Paul was the replacement for Judas, but Paul excludes himself from the twelve in I Cor. 15:5-8. Paul was the apostle of the Gentiles (Rom.

Being foretold is acknowledgment from God. Being selected by the remaining eleven Apostles is also much more convincing than Paul possibly announcing himself…...

dcontroversal · Jan 13, 2019

JaumeJ said:

false....show me where God told anyone to choose another....PETER took it upon himself and the man is not mentioned again after the fact....PAUL IS and he STATED CLEARLY under inspiration that he was one born out of due time.....He took the place of Judas......sorry.....the scriptures speak....I will go with the facts.....Matthias is not mentioned ONCE after he was CHOSEN BY LOT BY MEN and Paul being an apostle unto the Gentiles changes nothing nor does it say that he excluded himself...PETER was in Rome as well whIch was FULL OF GENTILES....

From Peter to Paul - Just a few noteworthy differences worth considering

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