Does entering into Jesus' rest mean we're to give up the Sabbath day? Is the 4th commandment part of the moral law of God?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
It was a false accusation. Doing works of righteousness is rest.
Through Christ We don't stop from doing the work of the Father; righteousness which is that of the Spirit. It is our Rest. It is the Gospel in which we partake through HIS Spirit.
For someone who quibbles about the meaning of words I am surprised you can say "Doing is Rest."
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
We are in Hebrews 4:9. Matthew 11:28 is speaking of the Gospel Rest not the ceasing from work that GOD did. Two different things being mentioned in Hebrews 4:9. A ceasing from work which is a Sabbath keeping and the Rest which is the Gospel. One that experiences the Gospel Rest also ceases from their own works as GOD did from HIS. GOD did not enter into a spiritual rest. He is our Spiritual Rest. He ceased from work on the Seventh Day.

There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbath keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:9-10 KJV)

Verse 10 says we who have entered into HIS Rest, we ALSO (in addition) cease from our own works as GOD did from HIS. Not some partially entering into as VINES puts forth in his commentary. A ENTERING INTO AS GOD DID FROM HIS.

NOT SOME SPIRITUAL REST, A CEASING FROM WORK LIKE GOD DID FROM HIS WORK. HE STOP WORKING ON THE SEVENTH DAY SO WE WHO HAVE ENTERED INTO OUR REST (THE GOSPEL) STOP WORKING ON THE SEVENTH DAY ALSO LIKE HE DID.
If you believe Jesus is Immanuel (God with us) then you need to understand that in Matthew 11:28 God is telling us to come to Him and HE will give us rest.

This is after He created heaven and earth, and while He is resting from His works of creation, allowing us to come to "the crucified one" and rest in Him for both our spiritual and physical rest.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
No, Two different things being mentioned in Hebrews 4:9. A ceasing from work which is a Sabbath keeping and the Rest which is the Gospel.
One that experiences the Gospel Rest also ceases from their own works as GOD did from HIS. GOD did not enter into a spiritual rest. He is our Spiritual Rest. He ceased from work on the Seventh Day.


There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbath keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:9-10 KJV)

Verse 10 says we who have entered into HIS Rest, we ALSO (in addition) cease from our own works as GOD did from HIS.
No. Sabbath keeping is what the law says to do. That is working at the law.

Rest is when you don't work. Its ceasing from work.

The only way this is accomplished is by coming to Christ and receiving it.

If you don't receive rest then you have to pretend that your work at the law is actual rest even though all of Christianity already knows you are just being silly.

Lots of scripture must be twisted to make works of the law mean rest.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

How are we all the children of God? By work at the law? Nope by faith.

So there remains work at the law for the people of God? Nope. Rest. Ceasing from works at the law.

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

See. Working at the law is not faith. Resting from your works of the law requires faith. A lot of it since the whole rest of the world will argue for working at the law in one form or another.

The children of God have what in common? They all rest from their work at the law by faith in Christ Jesus.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
You are confusing his commentary in respect to the verse with the actual definition of the word. Here follow along.

The Part highlighted in bold text above is the definition. VINES DEFINES THE WORD AS, "A SABBATH KEEPING" THEN HE GIVES THE A.V. TRANSLATION AND STATES THAT IN THEIR MARGIN, THEY HAVE "A KEEPING OF A SABBATH". WHAT FOLLOWS THAT IS ANOTHER OBJECTIVE FACT. THAT A WORD THAT IS AKIN TO SABBATISMOS IS FOUND IN EX.16:30. AFTER THAT HE CEASES HIS WRITINGS CEASE BEING A LEXICON WORK AND BECOMES COMMENTARY. HE GIVES HIS OPINION ON THE TEXT. IT IS A SUBJECTIVE OPINION NOT BASED ON CONTEXT.

No where at any time did GOD enter into any rest other than that on the Seventh Day. On that day HE ceased from the physical work of creation.
As was posted before. Two different things being mentioned in Hebrews 4:9. A ceasing from work which is a Sabbath keeping and the Rest which is the Gospel. One that experiences the Gospel Rest also ceases from their own works as GOD did from HIS. GOD did not enter into a spiritual rest. He is our Spiritual Rest. He ceased from work on the Seventh Day.


There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbath keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:9-10 KJV)

Verse 10 says we who have entered into HIS Rest, we ALSO (in addition) cease from our own works as GOD did from HIS. Not some partially entering into as VINES puts forth in his commentary. A ENTERING INTO AS GOD DID FROM HIS.

NOT SOME SPIRITUAL REST, A CEASING FROM WORK LIKE GOD DID FROM HIS WORK. HE STOP WORKING ON THE SEVENTH DAY SO WE WHO HAVE ENTERED INTO OUR REST STOP WORKING ON THE SEVENTH DAY
The spiritual rest of salvation which God’s people are entering is "sabbatismos" a "sabbath keeping" in the sense that it is a participation in God’s own "rest," which we enter by faith. (Hebrews 4:3) Anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His. (Genesis 4:10). The "sabbatismos" rest of God described in Hebrews 4:9 refers to the salvation "rest" into which all Christians have entered. As W.E Vine points out - Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it.
The rest is the Gospel. The ceasing from work like GOD did from HIS is IN RELATION to the stopping from the work he did when HE ceased from creation on the Seventh Day. ONLY ONE RECORDED CEASING FROM WORK OF GOD and it was on the Seventh Day IN RELATION TO HIM RESTING.

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbath keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he ALSO hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:9-10 KJV)

Verse 10 says we who have entered into HIS Rest, we ALSO (in addition) cease from our own works as GOD did from HIS. Not some partially CEASING into as VINES puts forth in his commentary. A FULL FLEDGED CEASING WORK AS GOD DID FROM HIS.
In Verse three of Hebrews four states that believers do enter into the rest which is the Gospel this is not the ceasing from work like did. This is our Rest through Christ in HIM. The Sabbath keeping that remaineth is in addition to the Rest we enter through Christ which is the Gospel. THE TEXT DOES NOT SAY WE ENTER INTO THIS SABBATH KEEPING. IT SAYS WE WHO HAVE ENTERED INTO OUR REST (THE GOSPEL) CEASED FROM OUR OWN WORKS AS GOD DID. NOT A PARTIAL CEASING AND NOT THE SAME REST WHICH WE ENTER WHICH IS THE GOSPEL.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
The rest is the Gospel. The ceasing from work like GOD did from HIS is IN RELATION to the stopping from the work he did when HE ceased from creation on the Seventh Day. ONLY ONE RECORDED CEASING FROM WORK OF GOD and it was on the Seventh Day IN RELATION TO HIM RESTING.
The Wycliffe Bible Encyclopedia summarizes the gospel message this way:

The central truth of the gospel is that God has provided a way of salvation for men through the gift of His son to the world. He suffered as a sacrifice for sin, overcame death, and now offers a share in His triumph to all who will accept it. The gospel is good news because it is a gift of God, not something that must be earned by penance or by self-improvement (Jn 3:16; Rom 5:8–11; II Cor 5:14–19; Tit 2:11–14).3

The Gospel in a Nutshell
In 1 Corinthians 15:1-8, the apostle Paul summarizes the most basic ingredients of the gospel message, namely, the death, burial, resurrection, and appearances of the resurrected Christ. Note the four clauses introduced by that in bold type in verses 3-5 below:

15:1 Now I want to make clear for you, brothers and sisters, the gospel that I preached to you, that you received and on which you stand, 15:2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold firmly to the message I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 15:3 For I passed on to you as of first importance what I also received—that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, 15:4 and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day according to the scriptures, 15:5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve…4

https://bible.org/article/what-gospel

Nothing to do with work. To say it is, is an insult to God and what He has done for us.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
We are in Hebrews 4:9. Matthew 11:28 is speaking of the Gospel Rest not the ceasing from work that GOD did. Two different things being mentioned in Hebrews 4:9. A ceasing from work which is a Sabbath keeping and the Rest which is the Gospel. One that experiences the Gospel Rest also ceases from their own works as GOD did from HIS. GOD did not enter into a spiritual rest. He is our Spiritual Rest. He ceased from work on the Seventh Day.

There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbath keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:9-10 KJV)

Verse 10 says we who have entered into HIS Rest, we ALSO (in addition) cease from our own works as GOD did from HIS. Not some partially entering into as VINES puts forth in his commentary. A ENTERING INTO AS GOD DID FROM HIS.

NOT SOME SPIRITUAL REST, A CEASING FROM WORK LIKE GOD DID FROM HIS WORK. HE STOP WORKING ON THE SEVENTH DAY SO WE WHO HAVE ENTERED INTO OUR REST (THE GOSPEL) STOP WORKING ON THE SEVENTH DAY ALSO LIKE HE DID.
Nothing like adding to Scripture, huh?
What is added to scripture? The small section you quoted of the post has Sabbath Keeping in parenthesis. That is what the definition of the Greek word translated rest means.


What we are saying is: you are in ERROR by demanding others do it, or else they are in sin. (And in sometimes unsaved devils taking the mark of the beast, depending on the brand of heresy)
I have not demanded anything.

GOD had said through the writer of Hebrews.
There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbath keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:9-10 KJV)

Verse 10 says we who have entered into HIS Rest, we ALSO (in addition) cease from our own works as GOD did from HIS. Not some partially entering into as VINES puts forth in his commentary. A ENTERING INTO AS GOD DID FROM HIS.

NOT SOME SPIRITUAL REST, A CEASING FROM WORK LIKE GOD DID FROM HIS WORK. HE STOP WORKING ON THE SEVENTH DAY SO WE WHO HAVE ENTERED INTO OUR REST (THE GOSPEL) STOP WORKING ON THE SEVENTH DAY ALSO LIKE HE DID
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
Nothing to do with work. To say it is, is an insult to God and what He has done for us.
Amen.

Now if you don't mind please address the points of the post in Hebrews.

The rest is the Gospel. The ceasing from work like GOD did from HIS is IN RELATION to the stopping from the work he did when HE ceased from creation on the Seventh Day. ONLY ONE RECORDED CEASING FROM WORK OF GOD and it was on the Seventh Day IN RELATION TO HIM RESTING.

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbath keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he ALSO hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:9-10 KJV)

Verse 10 says we who have entered into HIS Rest, we ALSO (in addition) cease from our own works as GOD did from HIS. Not some partially CEASING into as VINES puts forth in his commentary. A FULL FLEDGED CEASING WORK AS GOD DID FROM HIS.
In Verse three of Hebrews four states that believers do enter into the rest which is the Gospel this is not the ceasing from work like did. This is our Rest through Christ in HIM. The Sabbath keeping that remaineth is in addition to the Rest we enter through Christ which is the Gospel. THE TEXT DOES NOT SAY WE ENTER INTO THIS SABBATH KEEPING. IT SAYS WE WHO HAVE ENTERED INTO OUR REST (THE GOSPEL) CEASED FROM OUR OWN WORKS AS GOD DID. NOT A PARTIAL CEASING AND NOT THE SAME REST WHICH WE ENTER WHICH IS THE GOSPEL.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
No. Sabbath keeping is what the law says to do. That is working at the law.

Rest is when you don't work. Its ceasing from work.

The only way this is accomplished is by coming to Christ and receiving it.

If you don't receive rest then you have to pretend that your work at the law is actual rest even though all of Christianity already knows you are just being silly.

Lots of scripture must be twisted to make works of the law mean rest.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

How are we all the children of God? By work at the law? Nope by faith.

So there remains work at the law for the people of God? Nope. Rest. Ceasing from works at the law.

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

See. Working at the law is not faith. Resting from your works of the law requires faith. A lot of it since the whole rest of the world will argue for working at the law in one form or another.

The children of God have what in common? They all rest from their work at the law by faith in Christ Jesus.
That is Right, Faith. What is this Faith in which Paul speaks?

We are crucified with Christ: nevertheless we live; yet not us, but Christ liveth in us: and the life which we now live in the flesh we live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved us, and gave himself for us. Gal 2:20

The Faith OF the Son of GOD.
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Gal 3:27

What does Paul through GOD mean when He states we are dead nevertheless we live by the Faith of Christ?
What is this Faith? Not I but Christ's Faith.
Romans chapter 10:6-8 explain this Faith as Paul through GOD paraphrases Deut 30:11-14 to open our understanding. He paraphrased Deut. to draw our attention to it so we would make the following connection.

The righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the word; His Commandments and Statutes written in the Book of the Law) down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word; His Commandments and Statutes written in the Book of the Law) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach ; For Christ (the word; His Commandments and Statutes written in the Book of the Law in the heart and mouth) is the end of the (written) law ( on parchment and Tables of Stone) for righteousness to every one that believeth. that is, the word of faith, which we preach.
(Rom 10:4-8; Deut 30:11-14)

To further this point we will go to Hebrews chapter eight where the writer through the Spirit quotes Jeremiah. The same thing is being stated just in different words.

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws (Christ, the word; His Commandments and Statutes written in the Book of the Law) into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: For Christ (the word; His Commandments and Statutes written in the Book of the Law in the heart and mouth) is the end of the (written) law ( on parchment and Tables of Stone) for righteousness to every one that believeth. That is, the word of faith, which we preach.
(Heb 8:10)

It is a NEW ministry. Not of Tables of Stone and of parchment; the Book of the Law. But of the fleshly Tables of the Heart; Faith through Christ and of Christ.

Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. For Christ, the word; His Commandments and Statutes written in the Book of the Law in the heart and mouth is the end of the (written) law ( on parchment and Tables of Stone) for righteousness and the ministry to every one that believeth. that is, the word of faith, which we preach. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
(2Co 3:3-5)


And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ (the word; His Commandments and Statutes written in the Book of the Law in the heart and mouth): Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
(Deu 30:6; Col 2:10-12)
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,491
13,428
113
58
Nothing like adding to Scripture, huh?

Oy vey...... I came from this judaizing background, take it from me, its no bueno. Not kosher at all!
I still keep my diet kosher, but I dont ever tell anyone else to do so. Nobody is saying its FORBIDDEN to keep kosher, to keep the sabbath, to keep the biblical feasts or ANY of the other things hebrew roots people love to do.

What we are saying is: you are in ERROR by demanding others do it, or else they are in sin. (And in sometimes unsaved devils taking the mark of the beast, depending on the brand of heresy)
Well said brother! (y)

 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
The weekly Old Testament Sabbath is a shadow the spiritual "rest" Christians have in Christ (Colossians 2:16-17).
Shadow? Context and grammar says different.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting TO THE ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
(Col 2:13-17)
Context in relation to verse sixteen basically starts in verse 13. The clause " having forgiven you of all trespasses" is the central them. Since we have been forgiven all trespasses there is no need for the HANDWRITING TO THE ORDINANCES THAT WERE AGAINST US. The handwriting TO THE ordinances that condemned us WHEN WE SINNED. We are forgiven so they have been blotted out. The Handwriting TO THE ordinances are in which the meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days are taken from. Context and grammar dictate this. Sabbath days is Not the Sabbath of the Decalogue but the sabbath days in respect to the handwriting TO THE ordinances that were against us.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,491
13,428
113
58
The rest is the Gospel. The ceasing from work like GOD did from HIS is IN RELATION to the stopping from the work he did when HE ceased from creation on the Seventh Day. ONLY ONE RECORDED CEASING FROM WORK OF GOD and it was on the Seventh Day IN RELATION TO HIM RESTING.

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbath keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he ALSO hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:9-10 KJV)

Verse 10 says we who have entered into HIS Rest, we ALSO (in addition) cease from our own works as GOD did from HIS. Not some partially CEASING into as VINES puts forth in his commentary. A FULL FLEDGED CEASING WORK AS GOD DID FROM HIS.
In Verse three of Hebrews four states that believers do enter into the rest which is the Gospel this is not the ceasing from work like did. This is our Rest through Christ in HIM. The Sabbath keeping that remaineth is in addition to the Rest we enter through Christ which is the Gospel. THE TEXT DOES NOT SAY WE ENTER INTO THIS SABBATH KEEPING. IT SAYS WE WHO HAVE ENTERED INTO OUR REST (THE GOSPEL) CEASED FROM OUR OWN WORKS AS GOD DID. NOT A PARTIAL CEASING AND NOT THE SAME REST WHICH WE ENTER WHICH IS THE GOSPEL.
I already explained this in post #337. Keeping the weekly Sabbath is NOT the Gospel and the Gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the Gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. NOT trust in Christ + Sabbath keeping or trust in Christ + works, namely, "grace plus law, faith plus works" etc..

Once again, the spiritual rest of salvation which God’s people are entering is "sabbatismos" a "sabbath keeping" in the sense that it is a participation in God’s own "rest," which we enter by faith. (Hebrews 4:3) Anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His. (Genesis 4:10). The "sabbatismos" rest of God described in Hebrews 4:9 refers to the salvation "rest" into which all Christians have entered. As W.E Vine points out that here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law. Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. (y)

The weekly Old Testament Sabbath is a shadow of the spiritual "rest" Christians have in Christ. This may explain why the writer of Hebrews coined the word "sabbatismos," making a play off the word for the Sabbath day "sabbaton." You seem to have a very difficult time making it past the shadow (Sabbath day) to the substance/reality which belongs to Christ/is found in Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17)

*You also DID NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION FROM POST #337: Why is it SO important for you to believe that Christians MUST keep the weekly Sabbath day under the new covenant which was for Israel under the law in the old testament and what do you believe the consequences are for those who do not? What exactly are YOU trusting in for salvation?
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
I already explained this in post #337. Keeping the weekly Sabbath is NOT the Gospel and the Gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ
Amen; never said any different.

The rest is the Gospel. The ceasing from work like GOD did from HIS is IN RELATION to the stopping from the work he did when HE ceased from creation on the Seventh Day. ONLY ONE RECORDED CEASING FROM WORK OF GOD and it was on the Seventh Day IN RELATION TO HIM RESTING.

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbath keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he ALSO hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:9-10 KJV)

Verse 10 says we who have entered into HIS Rest, we ALSO (in addition) cease from our own works as GOD did from HIS. Not some partially CEASING into as VINES puts forth in his commentary. A FULL FLEDGED CEASING WORK AS GOD DID FROM HIS.
In Verse three of Hebrews four states that believers do enter into the rest which is the Gospel this is not the ceasing from work like did. This is our Rest through Christ in HIM. The Sabbath keeping that remaineth is in addition to the Rest we enter through Christ which is the Gospel. THE TEXT DOES NOT SAY WE ENTER INTO THIS SABBATH KEEPING. IT SAYS WE WHO HAVE ENTERED INTO OUR REST (THE GOSPEL)
CEASED FROM OUR OWN WORKS AS GOD DID. NOT A PARTIAL CEASING AND NOT THE SAME REST WHICH WE ENTER WHICH IS THE GOSPEL.
 
T

Tim416

Guest
God told Moses the Israelites were a stiff necked-heathen people who would soon desert him once they reached the promised land. This obviously was proved to be true. They kept wandering away from God, got into a mess than asked God to get them out of it. And so, this is how they mostly spent their lives. And they sought to mechanically obey as it were, going through outwards motions of obedience, rather than in their hearts wanting to please God. It is quite natural, in such circumstances they were told, according to law to set aside a certain day each week to reflect on God and his goodness to them, and to worship and praise him for it.
Under the new covenant however, we have been born again, the Holy Spirit dwells in us, and through him Father and Son are also in us. The truly born again Christian has had their heart softened, in their heart they want to obey God for that is where his laws have been placed. They will instinctively meditate on, and be grateful to Father and Son for what is done in them, and has been done for them every day of the week, including Saturday. They will worship and praise God in their hearts seven days a week for all he has done for them. How can you not meditate on who lives within you?
The spiritual intent of the fourth commandment is upheld in born again believers every day, not just one day. Hence rom14:5
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,491
13,428
113
58
Shadow? Context and grammar says different.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting TO THE ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
(Col 2:13-17)
Context in relation to verse sixteen basically starts in verse 13. The clause " having forgiven you of all trespasses" is the central them. Since we have been forgiven all trespasses there is no need for the HANDWRITING TO THE ORDINANCES THAT WERE AGAINST US. The handwriting TO THE ordinances that condemned us WHEN WE SINNED. We are forgiven so they have been blotted out. The Handwriting TO THE ordinances are in which the meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days are taken from. Context and grammar dictate this. Sabbath days is Not the Sabbath of the Decalogue but the sabbath days in respect to the handwriting TO THE ordinances that were against us.
Typical SDA propaganda and the end result is salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

Ephesians 2:15 - Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

The natural reading of Ephesians 2:14,15 and Colossians 2:14 would show that the entire Old Covenant written code was nailed to the cross, including the Ten Commandments (with all the rules and regulations attached to them under the Mosaic Law) which were the center point of the Old Covenant (Exodus 34:29-34).

"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenantnot of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns." But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).

The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.

*Although the moral principles of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the New Covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7; James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

In regards to your argument in reference to Colossians 2:16-17, I already refuted that argument in post #4,165 below.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-who-do-we-believe-god-or-man.159613/page-209
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
No mention of the Sabbath of the Decalogue Romans 14:5.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

If Paul would have meant the Sabbath he would of mentioned it specifically. He did not. To assert that he meant it is to add what is not there. Paul does bring up sabbath day in Colossians. But is not the Sabbath of the Decalogue. It is the sabbath days in the handwriting to the ordinances. . Not the ordinances themselves but the handwriting to them. And only those that were against us.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting TO THE ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
(Col 2:13-17)
Context in relation to verse sixteen basically starts in verse 13. The clause " having forgiven you of all trespasses" is the central them. Since we have been forgiven all trespasses there is no need for the HANDWRITING TO THE ORDINANCES THAT WERE AGAINST US. The handwriting TO THE ordinances that condemned us WHEN WE SINNED. We are forgiven so they have been blotted out. The Handwriting TO THE ordinances are in which the meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days are taken from. Context and grammar dictate this. Sabbath days is Not the Sabbath of the Decalogue but the sabbath days in respect to the handwriting TO THE ordinances that were against us.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
Typical SDA propaganda and the end result is salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.
Please address the points of the post. It is the HANDWRITING TO THE ORDINANCES THAT PAUL IS ADDRESSING. THIS POINT YOU DID NOT ADDRESS. IT IS OF THESE WRITINGS IN WHICH PAUL SPEAKS. CONTEXT AND GRAMMAR DICTATE THIS. NOT ANY SDA.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting TO THE ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
(Col 2:13-17)
Context in relation to verse sixteen basically starts in verse 13. The clause " having forgiven you of all trespasses" is the central them. Since we have been forgiven all trespasses there is no need for the HANDWRITING TO THE ORDINANCES THAT WERE AGAINST US. The handwriting TO THE ordinances that condemned us WHEN WE SINNED. We are forgiven so they have been blotted out. The Handwriting TO THE ordinances are in which the meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days are taken from. Context and grammar dictate this. Sabbath days is Not the Sabbath of the Decalogue but the sabbath days in respect to the handwriting TO THE ordinances that were against us.
 
T

Tim416

Guest
No mention of the Sabbath of the Decalogue Romans 14:5.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

If Paul would have meant the Sabbath he would of mentioned it specifically. He did not. To assert that he meant it is to add what is not there. Paul does bring up sabbath day in Colossians. But is not the Sabbath of the Decalogue. It is the sabbath days in the handwriting to the ordinances. . Not the ordinances themselves but the handwriting to them. And only those that were against us.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting TO THE ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
(Col 2:13-17)
Context in relation to verse sixteen basically starts in verse 13. The clause " having forgiven you of all trespasses" is the central them. Since we have been forgiven all trespasses there is no need for the HANDWRITING TO THE ORDINANCES THAT WERE AGAINST US. The handwriting TO THE ordinances that condemned us WHEN WE SINNED. We are forgiven so they have been blotted out. The Handwriting TO THE ordinances are in which the meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days are taken from. Context and grammar dictate this. Sabbath days is Not the Sabbath of the Decalogue but the sabbath days in respect to the handwriting TO THE ordinances that were against us.
The spiritual intent of the fourth commandment is upheld in born again believers every day, not just one day. Hence rom14:5
There is nothing in rom 14 that speaks of any specific set of sabbath days, as you mentioned.
Incidentally, Paul twice states in Rom ch14 ALL food is clean(14&20)
Sin is the transgression of the law
The law for the believer is written in their minds and placed on their hearts. You must know in your mind what has been placed there. You must have heartfelt conviction of sin when you transgress the law within you. I have never been convicted of sin by failing to observe a set Saturday sabbath. How were you convicted to observe it? Only because you read law written in ink. That is not where the law is for the believer:
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.2Cor3:3
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
Shadow? Context and grammar says different.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting TO THE ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
(Col 2:13-17)
Context in relation to verse sixteen basically starts in verse 13. The clause " having forgiven you of all trespasses" is the central them. Since we have been forgiven all trespasses there is no need for the HANDWRITING TO THE ORDINANCES THAT WERE AGAINST US. The handwriting TO THE ordinances that condemned us WHEN WE SINNED. We are forgiven so they have been blotted out. The Handwriting TO THE ordinances are in which the meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days are taken from. Context and grammar dictate this. Sabbath days is Not the Sabbath of the Decalogue but the sabbath days in respect to the handwriting TO THE ordinances that were against us.

Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

Ephesians 2:15 - Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

The natural reading of Ephesians 2:14,15 and Colossians 2:14 would show that the entire Old Covenant written code was nailed to the cross, including the Ten Commandments (with all the rules and regulations attached to them under the Mosaic Law) which were the center point of the Old Covenant (Exodus 34:29-34).


In regards to your argument in reference to Colossians 2:16-17, I already refuted that argument in post #4,165 below.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-who-do-we-believe-god-or-man.159613/page-209
Natural reading? Most translations ignore the definite article τοις (the) in the Greek and the fact that τοις and δογμασιν are in the Dative case. The Dative case dictates that the clause should be translated using the word "to".
As shown in the post you responded to; it should be translated as follows.

Handwriting to the ordinances
χειρογραφον τοις δογμασιν

That is the "natural" reading through the Spirit.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Amen.

Now if you don't mind please address the points of the post in Hebrews.
The Gospel in a nutshell is: "JESUS SAVES." This straight-way eliminates God's rest from creation in Genesis which was physical. The saving rest of Jesus, is rest for the soul.

Rest for the Israilites, physical rest that is, was when they entered Caanan and could rest from their wanderings. So, starting at verse 8 in Hebrews 4 we read of another rest: For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. (Heb 4:8 KJV)

We read about this other rest in Psa 95:10-11 : Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

Verse 9 continues: "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God."

This rest is still to be realized by “some who have not entered this rest because of unbelief." The writer is talking to unbelieving Jews.

Heb 4:3 "For we which have believed do enter into rest" Those who believe are (“the people of God,” the true Israel and it is the believer who shall enter into God’s rest which is “My rest.”)

The message regarding Gen 2:2 is that God rested from His works on the original Sabbath because the work was finished, and because the work of Christ was finished on the cross on our behalf and for us, we can cease from our own self-justifying works.

The work of creation is finished. So is the work of salvation, neither of which we have done, and neither could we. But what we can do is to rest in God's finished work. This is our Sabbath Rest, when all is finished, so we can rest in God for our salvation.

This cessation from works as a basis for our righteousness fulfils our “Sabbath rest.” God rested from His works on the original Sabbath of Gen_2:2 because the work was finished. We cease from self-justifying works because the work is finished by Jesus on the cross.

Heb 4:11 Let us labour [endevour G4704] therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief [disobedience G543].

Belief/unbelief is not physical work it is a work of the heart and Jesus is ready and waiting to enter the hearts of those who believe in Him.

Jesus said: "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. (Rev 3:20)"

The only work we have to do is to open our hearts door and let him in and then we shall have our Sabbath Rest, for the work of salvation is finished. Thank you Lord.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
The spiritual intent of the fourth commandment is upheld in born again believers every day, not just one day. Hence rom14:5
There is nothing in rom 14 that speaks of any specific set of sabbath days, as you mentioned.
Incidentally, Paul twice states in Rom ch14 ALL food is clean(14&20)
The Sabbath is a day we are to cease from work like GOD did from HIS. As GOD did. He ceased fro work. It is a physical rest on the Seventh Day we do because of the Spiritual rest which is the Gospel. No mention of the Sabbath in Romans 14 just days in general and also my friend no mention unclean food only COMMON.
Most translation in Romans 14:14 do not due the Spirit justice They do not translate the Greek properly. The word unclean in the KJV and others should be translated profane or common. It is the Greek word koinos and should be translated As shown below.


I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is profane of itself; except to the one considering anything to be profane, to that one it is profane.
(Rom 14:14 ABP)


I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing by itself is common; except to the one counting anything to be common, it is common.
(Rom 14:14 LITV-TSP)

G2839 κοινός koinos (koy-nos') adj.
1. common
2. (literally) shared by all or several
3. (ceremonially) profane

There is a difference between what was considered common and unclean. This Luke brings out in his telling through the Spirit of Peter's vision.

Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
(Act 10:12-15 KJV)

A couple things need to be noted. First ALL MANNER of four footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air were shown unto Peter. He Could have very easily killed and ate a clean animal.

Second thing that needs noted. The animals were inter mingling. Because the clean animals were touching the unclean they were impure. They were made common. They could not be readily eaten they needed to be purified.

Thirdly. Peter makes a distinction between the common and the unclean. He said, I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. Which makes a distinction between the two. There is that which is considered common and that which is considered unclean.

The Forth thing that needs to be understood in Acts 10 is The word common here is the same Greek word used in Romans 14:14.

And lastly GOD never mentioned that HE cleansed the unclean only the common. He said, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.


The law for the believer is written in their minds and placed on their hearts. You must know in your mind what has been placed there. You must have heartfelt conviction of sin when you transgress the law within you. I have never been convicted of sin by failing to observe a set Saturday sabbath. How were you convicted to observe it? Only because you read law written in ink. That is not where the law is for the believer:
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.2Cor3:3
Amen! A new ministry! Not on Tables of Stone but on the fleshy Tables of the Heart.

The righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the word; His Commandments and Statutes written in the Book of the Law) down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word; His Commandments and Statutes written in the Book of the Law) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach ; For Christ (the word; His Commandments and Statutes written in the Book of the Law in the heart and mouth) is the end of the (written) law ( on parchment and Tables of Stone) for righteousness to every one that believeth. that is, the word of faith, which we preach.
(Rom 10:4-8; Deut 30:11-14)

To further this point we will go to Hebrews chapter eight where the writer through the Spirit quotes Jeremiah. The same thing is being stated just in different words.

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws (Christ, the word; His Commandments and Statutes written in the Book of the Law) into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: For Christ (the word; His Commandments and Statutes written in the Book of the Law in the heart and mouth) is the end of the (written) law ( on parchment and Tables of Stone) for righteousness to every one that believeth. That is, the word of faith, which we preach.
(Heb 8:10)

It is a NEW ministry. Not of Tables of Stone and of parchment; the Book of the Law. But of the fleshly Tables of the Heart; Faith through Christ and of Christ.

Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. For Christ, the word; His Commandments and Statutes written in the Book of the Law in the heart and mouth is the end of the (written) law ( on parchment and Tables of Stone) for righteousness and the ministry to every one that believeth. that is, the word of faith, which we preach. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
(2Co 3:3-5)


And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ (the word; His Commandments and Statutes written in the Book of the Law in the heart and mouth): Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
(Deu 30:6; Col 2:10-12)