Are there two gospels or ONE?

[Hevosmies]

We Christians don't do that today, do we? Why? Because that commandment was given exclusively to the Jews and was not meant for Gentiles.

False.

Im sick and tired of hearing about "Thats to the jews thats to the jews thats to the jews". WHO has told you that there are DIFFERENT RULES for Jews than Gentiles? Its the SAME RULES for everyone under the New Covenant which was ALREADY in effect since Jesus had resurrected and Holy Spirit given to the church. There is one set of rules for people, one plan of salvation for people.

NO its not. By that point gentiles had already been added to the church, a few chapters earlier Cornelius is a good example.

The reason we dont do that anymore, is because there are millions of Christians so its not PRACTICAL to do so anymore. It would be impossible.

 

[Tim416]

Zaccheus had never seen Jesus before and knew nothing about His commandments. The tax collector's willingness to give away half of his wealth came from his own heart and received approval from the Lord.

The point is, if it was a command to give up all your possessions, why did Jesus not demand that of Zaccheus? Neither had Jesus previously met the rich young ruler

 

[Rightlydivided]

False.

Im sick and tired of hearing about "Thats to the jews thats to the jews thats to the jews". WHO has told you that there are DIFFERENT RULES for Jews than Gentiles? Its the SAME RULES for everyone under the New Covenant which was ALREADY in effect since Jesus had resurrected and Holy Spirit given to the church. There is one set of rules for people, one plan of salvation for people.

NO its not. By that point gentiles had already been added to the church, a few chapters earlier Cornelius is a good example.

The reason we dont do that anymore, is because there are millions of Christians so its not PRACTICAL to do so anymore. It would be impossible.

No, it wouldn’t be impossible, listen to yourself, you simply don’t want to adhere to your own false doctrine. Jesus didn’t say “but when we get a bunch of Christians, you don’t have to adhere to this one” anymore commandments that you can ignore? Since there are millions of you?

 

[preacher4truth]

Zaccheus had never seen Jesus before and knew nothing about His commandments. The tax collector's willingness to give away half of his wealth came from his own heart and received approval from the Lord.

So, you believe his giving away of wealth earned him eternal salvation?

 

[Rightlydivided]

False.

Im sick and tired of hearing about "Thats to the jews thats to the jews thats to the jews". WHO has told you that there are DIFFERENT RULES for Jews than Gentiles? Its the SAME RULES for everyone under the New Covenant which was ALREADY in effect since Jesus had resurrected and Holy Spirit given to the church. There is one set of rules for people, one plan of salvation for people.

NO its not. By that point gentiles had already been added to the church, a few chapters earlier Cornelius is a good example.

The reason we dont do that anymore, is because there are millions of Christians so its not PRACTICAL to do so anymore. It would be impossible.

And just to be clear, the fact that you are “sick and tired of hearing”...has no bearing on the gospel itself, you are capable of “getting lost” no pun intended

 

[Hevosmies]

No, it wouldn’t be impossible, listen to yourself, you simply don’t want to adhere to your own false doctrine. Jesus didn’t say “but when we get a bunch of Christians, you don’t have to adhere to this one” anymore commandments that you can ignore? Since there are millions of you?

Uhh... you wanna talk about FALSE doctrine?

Coming from a guy who is repeating hyper-dispensational dogma that has only been around for a century....... the irony.

Are you willing to go as far as Sam Gipp and say Jesus isnt your Messiah?
And no I did not make that up, Sam Gipp literally said Jesus was not His Messiah. You want a spoiler? Its only to ............ the jews obviously.

Why dont you just get your own dispie bibles with nothing but Romans to Philemon on it? I know there are some verses that dont really jive with hyper-dispensationalism even in those letters but hey, surely you will find a way to twist those.
I can disprove your 'doctrine' from the Pauline epistles alone, so the sad part is. even Paul's writings dont agree with your garbage teachings.

Paul teaches ONE people. Read Ephesians 2 for a change. No separate rules for jews and gentiles. You also didnt touch my point again but just typed some nonsense.

WHEN ACTS 13 WAS WRITTEN THE CHURCH HAD ALREADY STARTED EVEN ACCORDING TO DISPENSATIONALISTS. Therefore: same rules for jews and gentiles. Unless there are different rules even during the gospel era? Which would be competely unbiblical, against Ephesians 2.

 

[preacher4truth]

But that commandment was not given exclusively to the young rich man. See Luke 12:33: Sell that ye have and give alms.

In Acts 12:33 we see the disciples obeying Jesus' commandment: 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need.

We Christians don't do that today, do we? Why? Because that commandment was given exclusively to the Jews and was not meant for Gentiles.

So, is this more of you interpreting these passages as what one must do to gain eternal life if he has Jewish DNA?

You're completely missing the point of the passage in Luke and Matthew 19:21.

 

[Rightlydivided]

False.

Im sick and tired of hearing about "Thats to the jews thats to the jews thats to the jews". WHO has told you that there are DIFFERENT RULES for Jews than Gentiles? Its the SAME RULES for everyone under the New Covenant which was ALREADY in effect since Jesus had resurrected and Holy Spirit given to the church. There is one set of rules for people, one plan of salvation for people.

NO its not. By that point gentiles had already been added to the church, a few chapters earlier Cornelius is a good example.

The reason we dont do that anymore, is because there are millions of Christians so its not PRACTICAL to do so anymore. It would be impossible.

False.

Im sick and tired of hearing about "Thats to the jews thats to the jews thats to the jews". WHO has told you that there are DIFFERENT RULES for Jews than Gentiles? Its the SAME RULES for everyone under the New Covenant which was ALREADY in effect since Jesus had resurrected and Holy Spirit given to the church. There is one set of rules for people, one plan of salvation for people.

NO its not. By that point gentiles had already been added to the church, a few chapters earlier Cornelius is a good example.

The reason we dont do that anymore, is because there are millions of Christians so its not PRACTICAL to do so anymore. It would be impossible.

Cornelius is the ONLY example before getting sent home, Paul takes over (obviously) don’t try to make it sound as though you are hoarding Peters epistles to the gentiles.....because your not

 

[Rightlydivided]

Uhh... you wanna talk about FALSE doctrine?

Coming from a guy who is repeating hyper-dispensational dogma that has only been around for a century....... the irony.

Are you willing to go as far as Sam Gipp and say Jesus isnt your Messiah?
And no I did not make that up, Sam Gipp literally said Jesus was not His Messiah. You want a spoiler? Its only to ............ the jews obviously.

Why dont you just get your own dispie bibles with nothing but Romans to Philemon on it? I know there are some verses that dont really jive with hyper-dispensationalism even in those letters but hey, surely you will find a way to twist those.
I can disprove your 'doctrine' from the Pauline epistles alone, so the sad part is. even Paul's writings dont agree with your garbage teachings.

Paul teaches ONE people. Read Ephesians 2 for a change. No separate rules for jews and gentiles. You also didnt touch my point again but just typed some nonsense.

WHEN ACTS 13 WAS WRITTEN THE CHURCH HAD ALREADY STARTED EVEN ACCORDING TO DISPENSATIONALISTS. Therefore: same rules for jews and gentiles. Unless there are different rules even during the gospel era? Which would be competely unbiblical, against Ephesians 2.

Hey MR EGO, no one is claiming 2 gospels today.....what does that do for your bantering?

 

[Hevosmies]

@Wronglydivided you are going on my ignore list, i've wasted too much time debunking your ridicilous and new teachings. if you dont get it, you just wont get it. And Peter's epistles are to the gentiles as well.
THERE ARE NO MORE JEWS AND GENTILES IN CHRIST JESUS. ONE PEOPLE. This idea that Peter's epistles are NOT to the gentiles or to the church is RIDICILOUS, they are specifically to them. You are trying to take away scripture from people is all you are trying to do, just like the gnostics of Paul's day, like Marcion, cutting up scripture.

Ephesians 2:11-16
Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.

I'll leave it to God to convince you or not-convince you. If scripture cant do it, I surely cant. "Let them be".

 

[Marcelo]

The point is, if it was a command to give up all your possessions, why did Jesus not demand that of Zaccheus? Neither had Jesus previously met the rich young ruler

Zaccheus was not a disciple yet, and that was not an appropriate moment to be expounding the law of Moses. The willingness of the tax collector's heart was more important than anything else a that moment.

Now let me give you another example of the differences between Jesus and Paul: The Lord said "if you just look at a woman, with lust, you've already committed adultery". Paul says adulterers will not enter heaven, but he doesn't count those who momentarily check out a person other than their spouse as adulterers.

According to what Jesus preached during His earthly ministry virtually nobody would be saved because if you look you are an adulterer and adulterers will not enter heaven. But after the cross Jesus did not reiterate the if-you-just-look thing through his spokesman, the apostle Paul

 

[Hevosmies]

Zaccheus was not a disciple yet, and that was not an appropriate moment to be expounding the law of Moses. The willingness of the tax collector's heart was more important than anything else a that moment.

Now let me give you another example of the differences between Jesus and Paul: The Lord said "if you just look at a woman, with lust, you've already committed adultery". Paul says adulterers will not enter heaven, but he doesn't count those who momentarily check out a person other than their spouse.

According to what Jesus preached during His earthly ministry virtually nobody would be saved because if you look you are an adulterer and adulterers will not enter heaven. But after the cross Jesus did not reiterate the if-you-just-look thing through his spokesman, the apostle Paul

Jesus is talking about the commandments. Its talking about someone elses' wife, hence it says "adultery" there. How can you commit adultery if neither party is married? Furthermore: How can anyone ever get married without being attracted to their future spouse?

 

[Rightlydivided]

@Wronglydivided you are going on my ignore list, i've wasted too much time debunking your ridicilous and new teachings. if you dont get it, you just wont get it. And Peter's epistles are to the gentiles as well.
THERE ARE NO MORE JEWS AND GENTILES IN CHRIST JESUS. ONE PEOPLE. This idea that Peter's epistles are NOT to the gentiles or to the church is RIDICILOUS, they are specifically to them. You are trying to take away scripture from people is all you are trying to do, just like the gnostics of Paul's day, like Marcion, cutting up scripture.

Ephesians 2:11-16
Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.

I'll leave it to God to convince you or not-convince you. If scripture cant do it, I surely cant. "Let them be".

Yes, 1 gospel today, and I was already seduced by your doctrine for 20 years, I am not anymore, I watched it tear family after family apart, I give ALL glory to God and take none for myself, I rob nothing from what Jesus did for me on the cross, especially adding works, as a prerequisite to salvation, and I sure do not preach anything of the likeness..

 

[Marcelo]

Jesus is talking about the commandments. Its talking about someone elses' wife, hence it says "adultery" there. How can you commit adultery if neither party is married? Furthermore: How can anyone ever get married without being attracted to their future spouse?

I think this teaching of Jesus is also valid for fornication.

 

[Tim416]

Zaccheus was not a disciple yet, and that was not an appropriate moment to be expounding the law of Moses. The willingness of the tax collector's heart was more important than anything else a that moment.

Now let me give you another example of the differences between Jesus and Paul: The Lord said "if you just look at a woman, with lust, you've already committed adultery". Paul says adulterers will not enter heaven, but he doesn't count those who momentarily check out a person other than their spouse.

According to what Jesus preached during His earthly ministry virtually nobody would be saved because if you look you are an adulterer and adulterers will not enter heaven. But after the cross Jesus did not reiterate the if-you-just-look thing through his spokesman, the apostle Paul

Neither was the rich young ruler yet a disciple, so you cannot use that argument to differentiate between the two.
Saul the Pharisee was condemned by his thoughts according to Paul the Christian. So Paul's understanding of what the law demanded was very high indeed. He knew dwelling on impure thoughts broke the Ten Commandments.
Yes, Jesaus said if you call your brother a fool you are in danger of the fires of hell. If you look at a woman with lust in your eye you have already committed adultery with her in your heart. If you believe all of Jesus literal commands must be fully followed, would you not invite friends and family home for a meal, but rather the lame, blind, poor and beggars so you might receive your reward in heaven?
Jesus was showing us how much we needed his death at calvary, for we could never attain to the standard set. We all fail.
Paul wrote:

The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. Gal5:19-21

Does that sound a long way away to you from what Jesus preached?

 

[Marcelo]

Neither was the rich young ruler yet a disciple, so you cannot use that argument to differentiate between the two.

The whole difference is that the rich young ruler asked "What must I do to be saved?" and Zaccheus didn't.

 

[Tim416]

The whole difference is that the rich young ruler asked "What must I do to be saved?" and Zaccheus didn't.

Yes but salvation came to zaccheus didn't it, and he did not have to sell all of his possessions to receive it.

 

[Marcelo]

Yes but salvation came to zaccheus didn't it, and he did not have to sell all of his possessions to receive it.

Later Zaccheus must have heard Jesus' commandment about alms giving: "Sell that ye have and give alms".

 

[Guojing]

False.

Im sick and tired of hearing about "Thats to the jews thats to the jews thats to the jews". WHO has told you that there are DIFFERENT RULES for Jews than Gentiles? Its the SAME RULES for everyone under the New Covenant which was ALREADY in effect since Jesus had resurrected and Holy Spirit given to the church. There is one set of rules for people, one plan of salvation for people.

NO its not. By that point gentiles had already been added to the church, a few chapters earlier Cornelius is a good example.

The reason we dont do that anymore, is because there are millions of Christians so its not PRACTICAL to do so anymore. It would be impossible.

Actually James, the leader of the Jerusalem HQ, as well as the elders, would disagree with your claim. In Acts 21,

17 And when we had come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18 On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present. 19 When he had greeted them, he told in detail those things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 [d]What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. 24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law. 25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided [e]that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from [f]sexual immorality.”

Since almost all of us are Gentiles now, the real reason why Jesus's commandment to the rich young ruler does not apply to us, its because the Gospels had Jesus emphasizing the Law to the Jews, which includes loving your God with all your heart. Money is always the no 1 distraction to that love.

The Law was never given to Gentiles, so Paul, in his Corinth letter, sets the rules for giving money in 2 Cor 8 and 9 instead, and those are the rules we should follow, example in chapter 9.

6 But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows [d]bountifully will also reap [e]bountifully. 7 So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of [f]necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work.

 

[know1]

I want to make a separate topic of this:

Is the gospel of the kingdom different from the gospel of grace Paul preached?

In my opinion there is one gospel, because gospel just means glad tidings of good things. (or good news).

So whether its called Gospel of the Kingdom, grace, God, peace, doesn't matter. All of those are in the Bible, if we were to assume all of those gospels are different ones cause one is called the gospel of Peace and one is teh gospel of God, we would end up in an ABSOLUTE MESS.

I made this thread to "feel the waters" a bit and see where people on this forum stand on this issue. I hope I wont end up in the minority here, BUT as usual if scripture is provided to prove me wrong I will be QUICK to apologize, repent and CHANGE my views on it.
I am very much concerned about Matthew being "for the jews" and everytime something is brought up we go back to "its to the jews" or "when did Jesus preach 1 Corinthians 15:1-4" as if 1 corinthians 15:1-4 is all there is to the gospel.

Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Remember Paul also says who preaches another gospel is accursed. There is nowhere in the Bible where it says the gospel "switches" to a different one after the rapture happens or ANYTHING like that, that is pure reading into the text and assuming.

Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: