Why did the Masorites subtract 100 years from each generation from Shem to Abraham?

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W

WIbaptist

Guest
#1
The Samaritan Pentateuch and the Greek Septuagint extend the generatons out much further than the Mesoretic texts. And Jews try to claim that Shem was Melchizedek claiming Shem was alive to meet Abraham. That falls apart with the other genealogies. I’m curious what others think.
 
W

WIbaptist

Guest
#2
The other issue is the shortened time frames cause biblical history and other historical events to be at odds. The lengthened timeframe lines them up.
 
Oct 12, 2012
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#3
The Samaritan Pentateuch and the Greek Septuagint extend the generatons out much further than the Mesoretic texts. And Jews try to claim that Shem was Melchizedek claiming Shem was alive to meet Abraham. That falls apart with the other genealogies. I’m curious what others think.
I believe (H)eber was Melchizedek, don't know anything about the Mesorites, but it sounds interesting!☺️
 
W

WIbaptist

Guest
#5
The Mesorites wrote the scrolls that all modern bibles are based on. The altered, shortened timeline is what is in every modern bible.
 
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#6
The Mesorites wrote the scrolls that all modern bibles are based on. The altered, shortened timeline is what is in every modern bible.
Yes sir 👍 but I do not hold to that do you?
 
W

WIbaptist

Guest
#8
The truth exists. It is never promised to exist in a single book. It doesn’t shake my faith. But I do believe it was altered intentionally so the Jews would deny Jesus being of the order of Melchizedek.
 
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#9
The truth exists. It is never promised to exist in a single book. It doesn’t shake my faith. But I do believe it was altered intentionally so the Jews would deny Jesus being of the order of Melchizedek.
That's interesting but those who changed it could not have known that!
 
W

WIbaptist

Guest
#10
That's interesting but those who changed it could not have known that!
Nothing happens apart from the will of God. An evil spirit from God came upon King Saul when he tried to kill David. God hardened the hearts of those that oppressed and attacked Israel when they fell into apostasy. I have no doubt that God allowed it. It doesn’t take much research to see the discrepancy. The Jews want to remain in their ignorance.
 
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#11
Nothing happens apart from the will of God. An evil spirit from God came upon King Saul when he tried to kill David. God hardened the hearts of those that oppressed and attacked Israel when they fell into apostasy. I have no doubt that God allowed it. It doesn’t take much research to see the discrepancy. The Jews want to remain in their ignorance.
The church is covenant Israel now and many of them want to stay in their ignorance also! So is God hardening their hearts also?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,058
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#12
Why did the Masorites subtract 100 years from each generation from Shem to Abraham?
You've got it BACKWARDS. The Septuagint and the Samaritan Pentateuch are corruptions of the traditional Hebrew Masoretic Text. For a detailed answer study The Chronology of the Old Testament by Martin Anstey.


The Septuagint (LXX) is a translation of the Hebrew Scriptures of the Old Testament into Hellenistic Greek. It was made at Alexandria in Egypt, a portion at a time, the Pentateuch being the portion translated first. The translation of the entire work occupied some 70 years (BC 250–180). It was commenced in the reign of Ptolemy II, Philadelphus, King of Egypt (BC 284–247). It was translated by Alexandrian, not Palestinian Jews, and was the work of a number of independent translators, or groups of translators, separated from each other by considerable intervals of time. It was the work of a number of men who had none of that almost superstitious veneration for the letter of Scripture, which characterized the Jews of Palestine. A Palestinian Jew would never dare to add to, to take from, or to alter a single letter of the Original. The translators of the LXX, on the contrary, are notorious for their Hellenizing, or their modernizing tendencies, their desire to simplify and to clear up difficulties, their practice of altering the text in order to remove what they regarded as apparent contradictions, and, generally, their endeavour to adapt their version to the prevailing notions of the age, in such a way as to commend it to the learning and the culture of the time. Hence the centenary additions to the lives of the Patriarchs in order to bring the Chronology into closer accord with the notions of antiquity that prevailed in Egypt at that time. Like the modern critic, the LXX translator did not hesitate to “correct” the record, and to “emend” the Text, in order to make it speak what he thought it ought to say.

The Samaritan Pentateuch is a venerable document written in the very ancient pointed Hebrew Script, which appears to have been in use (1) in the time of the Moabite Stone which dates from the 9th Century BC (2) in the time of the Siloam Inscription, which dates from the 7th Century BC, and (3) in the time of the Maccabees, i.e., in the 2nd Century BC The Manuscript, which is of great age, is preserved in the Sanctuary of the Samaritan Community at Nablous (Shechem). It modifies the Hebrew Text in accordance with the notions prevailing amongst the descendants of the mixed population introduced into Samaria by the Kings of Assyria, from Sargon (2 Kings 17:24) in the 8th Century BC to “the great and noble Asnapper” (Ezra 4:10) probably Ashurbanipal, in the 7th Century BC It alters “Ebal” to “Gerizim” in Deuteronomy 27:4, bears traces of a narrowing, rather than a broadening outlook, and represents the tendencies that prevailed amongst the Samaritans in the 9th to the 2nd Centuries BC If it is not so old as the LXX, the constructor of the Text may have had before him both the Hebrew Original and the Greek LXX Version, and may have picked his own way, selecting now from the one, and now from the other, in accordance with his own predilections and his own point of view. But it is more than probable that the Samaritan Pentateuch is much older than the LXX, and that it was translated from Hebrew into Samaritan about the time of Hezekiah in the 8th Century BC (See The Samaritan Pentateuch and Modern Criticism, by J. Iverach Munro, MA, 1911).


https://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/pdf/1913_anstey_chronology_1-5.pdf
 
W

WIbaptist

Guest
#13
The church is covenant Israel now and many of them want to stay in their ignorance also! So is God hardening their hearts also?
That I can’t answer. As far as I know God only strengthened what was already in their heart to begin with. He didn’t corrupt anyone.
 
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#14
That I can’t answer. As far as I know God only strengthened what was already in their heart to begin with. He didn’t corrupt anyone.
Interesting food for thought, I'm done for the night! 😋
 
W

WIbaptist

Guest
#15
You've got it BACKWARDS. The Septuagint and the Samaritan Pentateuch are corruptions of the traditional Hebrew Masoretic Text. For a detailed answer study The Chronology of the Old Testament by Martin Anstey.


The Septuagint (LXX) is a translation of the Hebrew Scriptures of the Old Testament into Hellenistic Greek. It was made at Alexandria in Egypt, a portion at a time, the Pentateuch being the portion translated first. The translation of the entire work occupied some 70 years (BC 250–180). It was commenced in the reign of Ptolemy II, Philadelphus, King of Egypt (BC 284–247). It was translated by Alexandrian, not Palestinian Jews, and was the work of a number of independent translators, or groups of translators, separated from each other by considerable intervals of time. It was the work of a number of men who had none of that almost superstitious veneration for the letter of Scripture, which characterized the Jews of Palestine. A Palestinian Jew would never dare to add to, to take from, or to alter a single letter of the Original. The translators of the LXX, on the contrary, are notorious for their Hellenizing, or their modernizing tendencies, their desire to simplify and to clear up difficulties, their practice of altering the text in order to remove what they regarded as apparent contradictions, and, generally, their endeavour to adapt their version to the prevailing notions of the age, in such a way as to commend it to the learning and the culture of the time. Hence the centenary additions to the lives of the Patriarchs in order to bring the Chronology into closer accord with the notions of antiquity that prevailed in Egypt at that time. Like the modern critic, the LXX translator did not hesitate to “correct” the record, and to “emend” the Text, in order to make it speak what he thought it ought to say.

The Samaritan Pentateuch is a venerable document written in the very ancient pointed Hebrew Script, which appears to have been in use (1) in the time of the Moabite Stone which dates from the 9th Century BC (2) in the time of the Siloam Inscription, which dates from the 7th Century BC, and (3) in the time of the Maccabees, i.e., in the 2nd Century BC The Manuscript, which is of great age, is preserved in the Sanctuary of the Samaritan Community at Nablous (Shechem). It modifies the Hebrew Text in accordance with the notions prevailing amongst the descendants of the mixed population introduced into Samaria by the Kings of Assyria, from Sargon (2 Kings 17:24) in the 8th Century BC to “the great and noble Asnapper” (Ezra 4:10) probably Ashurbanipal, in the 7th Century BC It alters “Ebal” to “Gerizim” in Deuteronomy 27:4, bears traces of a narrowing, rather than a broadening outlook, and represents the tendencies that prevailed amongst the Samaritans in the 9th to the 2nd Centuries BC If it is not so old as the LXX, the constructor of the Text may have had before him both the Hebrew Original and the Greek LXX Version, and may have picked his own way, selecting now from the one, and now from the other, in accordance with his own predilections and his own point of view. But it is more than probable that the Samaritan Pentateuch is much older than the LXX, and that it was translated from Hebrew into Samaritan about the time of Hezekiah in the 8th Century BC (See The Samaritan Pentateuch and Modern Criticism, by J. Iverach Munro, MA, 1911).

https://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/pdf/1913_anstey_chronology_1-5.pdf
There is a sharp contrast in the listed births being in the 100+ years to suddenly 30’ish years. It doesn’t add up to me.
 
W

WIbaptist

Guest
#17
So minus 60 then?
No the actual discrepancies in the generations from Shem to Abraham are 100 years each. Prior to the discrepancy births were in the 100+ years then go to 30 vs 130.
 
O

obedienttogod

Guest
#18
Did Noah and Abraham know one another?

Yasher reveals that not only did Noah and Abraham know one another, but that Abram lived with Noah and Shem for 39 years.


Noah was 600 years old when the flood came and he lived 950 years.


In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. (Gen 7:11)​
And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years. So all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years; and he died. (Gen 9:28-29)​

From the birth of Arphaxad, two years after the flood, until the birth of Abram it was only 292 years. Noah lived 350 years after the flood and Shem 500 years. Abram’s life overlapped Noah’s life by 58 years.


This is the sum of the years of Abraham’s life which he lived: one hundred and seventy-five years. (Gen 25:7)​

Ha – check that – Abraham only lived to be 175, so Shem outlived Abraham by 35 years. So interesting – that means that both Isaac and Jacob were taught by Shem, and Eber!




Noah And Abraham, Even Shem And Nimrod Were All Contemporaries

Jasher 28:24 And it came to pass in those days, in the hundred and tenth year of the life of Isaac, that is in the fiftieth year of the life of Jacob, in that year died Shem the son of Noah; Shem was six hundred years old at his death.​

Here is the chart in a 10mb PDF format. Click the following link to view it or right-click and “Save file as” to down-load it to your system. Age Chart


This is the genealogy of Shem: Shem was one hundred years old, and begot Arphaxad two years after the flood. After he begot Arphaxad, Shem lived five hundred years, and begot sons and daughters.​
Arphaxad lived thirty-five years, and begot Salah.​
Salah lived thirty years great, , and begot Eber.​
Eber lived thirty-four years, and begot Peleg.​
Peleg lived thirty years, and begot Reu.​
Reu lived thirty-two years, and begot Serug.​
Serug lived thirty years, and begot Nahor.​
Nahor lived twenty-nine years, and begot Terah.​
Now Terah lived seventy years, and begot Abram, Nahor, and Haran. (Gen 11:10-26)​

Noah was Abraham’s great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great-grandfather!


Did they know each other? Where else would Abram have learned Yehovah’s statutes judgments, and ordinances? Does Israel’s Elohim (lawmaker and judge) ever change? Does His word endure forever?


Of all the people who were alive at the end of the antediluvian (pre-flood) world it was Noah who was chosen by Yehovah to repopulate the next world. Why? Because He walked with God/Elohim, his only lawmaker and judge!


Then Yehovah saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. (Gen 6:5)​
This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with Elohim. (Gen 6:9)​


Noah And Abraham Lived Together For 39 Years

And concerning Abram we read in Jasher chapter 9.


4 Haran [Abram’s oldest brother] was forty-two years old when he begat Sarai, which was in the tenth year of the life of Abram; and in those days Abram and his mother and nurse went out from the cave, as the king and his subjects had forgotten the affair of Abram.​
5 And when Abram came out from the cave, he went to Noah and his son Shem, and he remained with them to learn the instruction of the Elohim and His ways, and no man knew where Abram was, and Abram served Noah and Shem his son for a long time.​
6 Abram was in Noah’s house thirty-nine years, and Abram knew Yehovah from three years old, and he went in the ways of Yehovah until the day of his death, as Noah and his son Shem had taught him; and all the sons of the earth in those days greatly transgressed against Yehovah, and they rebelled against him and they served other elohim (lawmakers and judges), and they forgot Yehovah who had created them in the earth; and the inhabitants of the earth made unto themselves, at that time, every man his elohim; elohim of wood and stone which could neither speak, hear, nor deliver, and the sons of men served them and they became their elohim.​
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,058
13,749
113
#19
There is a sharp contrast in the listed births being in the 100+ years to suddenly 30’ish years. It doesn’t add up to me.
However that may be, those who have examined the Septuagint and the Samaritan Pentateuch carefully have confirmed that they corrupted their versions. Read The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah by Alfred Edersheim.