Praying in Tongues

[7seasrekeyed]

The real question is, WHAT are you?
It says in your profile non-christian. Identify as something, please?

he did say in one post a few pages back that he was 'spiritual'

that could be almost anything...but not Christian but then he denies believing so....

 

[notuptome]

actually the gifts of the Holy Spirit do matter VERY much and speaking in tongues matters VERY much

The Holy Spirit is Himself a gift to believers. To be used of God one must sacrifice ones own desires to the Lord Jesus Christ. A living testimony for Christ is the duty of every Christian. We are to be witnesses of the saving grace of God.

While tongues could be a tool to communicate the gospel they are of far less merit than many here ascribe to them.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I did not say that. I have studied and read the bible a lot as well.

and you also said this:

How can a Christian know if they really have the gift of tongues? For myself it is not something I am comfortable with at this point just practicing it in prayer. I don't seem to have enough faith for it. If I speak in tongues I want to be assured it is of the Lord and not just me. Though I have noticed in the middle of the night before how I would catch myself saying something or singing but not english but I don't know either

yesterday you state you do not know how a Christian can have the real gift of tongues and you state you are not comfortable with it at this point and do not have enough faith and then end it by saying you don't know

I didn't make up these things. this is some of what you have stated...so you are not anymore understanding or knowledgeable then you were yesterday.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Well many Christians dont have the charisma to go out and pray and see God heal ppl. I believe it is possible tho.
It should be a part of our life.

I think theres many signs if someone received the Holy spirit. tongues is just one of many. Tongues just always get magnified

I think that tongues is often the first gift given and others follow as people seek God and pray

just another reason mr horns hates it so much!!!

it is powerful...we pray through the Holy Spirit

 

[7seasrekeyed]

There was a study some years back that Penn State University did MRI"s on people who speak in tongues. Their finding was that tongues didn't originate in the language center of the brain.

I used to be able to bring it up quickly in a search but not tonight. The video that was posted was not in those studies.

ok thanks

seems to me I heard or read something about that some time back

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Well, then we should expect these signs from around 800 000 000 pentecostals and charismatics which claime they received the Holy Spirit and as sign for it speaking in tongrom.
This would be a great sign for the world.
And again, wether Paul taught that speaking in tongues is a sign of receiving the Holy Spirit nor it is to find in the churchhistorie befire 1900.
Why i should believe such a teaching?

the major misunderstanding anti-tongues folks seem to have is that only Charismatics and or Pentecostals speak in tongues

that is not true and never was. perhaps that is an attempt to make it sound as if those 2 denoms were handing out the tongues?

I received the gift long before I ever either went to one of those 2 denoms and was brought up to be anti-tongues

there are enough rumors that people try to present as fact, to discourage anyone

it's pretty sad

 

[CherieR]

from your post 1066...you were replying to Kavik and acknowledge you have 'looked into' research on tongues which does not indicate Bible study

that is not what you have said. here is your first post on the matter where you were addressing Kavik who is trying very hard to dismiss tongues as described in scripture and who will not even say what he believes while telling actual Christians what to believe

seriously? that is somehow knowledge of tongues in your opinion?



you have offered opinions and called them opinions...you have not offered knowledge of what scripture says regarding tongues

actually the gifts of the Holy Spirit do matter VERY much and speaking in tongues matters VERY much

I have done both. I have studied both the bible and tongues. The gift of tongues is of value, it edifys the believer and for it to edify the church, it needs to be interpreted. Love however is of up most value and importance. The way I see it is that say you have two people one speaks in tongues and the other does not. What if the one who speaks in tongues was most of the time proud, rude, self-seeking etc but the one who did not was loving, gentle, joyful, self-less etc most of the time- which one is walking closer to Jesus? Or it may be the reverse where the one who speaks in tongues is loving and self-less while the one who doesn't is the complete opposite in character. In that case the person speaking in tongues is walking closer to Jesus.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Yet the kundalini found them and they have embraced it. One doesn’t need to seek the Holy Spirit. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation. I never said don’t lay on hands but test the spirit before accepting anything.

you use the word kundalini but you don't know what it is

there is not a group of people called 'the kundalini'

I have studied quite a few things regarding spiritual perversions and it seems you might have a go as well if you are going to go around trying to sound like you know something

 

[WIbaptist]

you use the word kundalini but you don't know what it is

there is not a group of people called 'the kundalini'

I have studied quite a few things regarding spiritual perversions and it seems you might have a go as well if you are going to go around trying to sound like you know something

I never said it’s a group of people 🤣. It’s a serpentine spirit that coils around the spine. It is not the Holy Spirit yet a Pentecostal revival is identical to a kundalini awakening in Hinduism.

 

[garee]

You are making my point. The Bible never says tongues is the first sign every believer will display or that they will be gifted with it. We are not to seek a baptism of the Holy Spirt. It was poured out to the disciples as the initial outpouring. Now it is one and the same as our salvation.

I would think baptism a old testament ceremonial law that was used when a new priest entered the priesthood has not changed . (Exodus 28) The order has changed from the tribe of Levi to the new manner when the Son of man, Jesus when he was baptized (John 3:25) and entered the priesthood as the High Priest, coming from the tribe of Judah after melchezedek as a kingdom of priests, male and female, Jew and gentile sending us into the world with the gospel of Christ.. Many by pass the foundation of the doctrine. And the same applies with tongues God bringing prophecy in the languages of all the nations of the world as a sign against the unbelieving Jew previous brining prophecy in the Hebrew their own tongue And yet the still refused to believe the word of God as promised by Joel .

The foundation must be sought after or anything goes and rather than confirming as a sign against those who rather seek after the oral traditions of men they develop their own oral tradition. "make a noise" and it to them confirms they have the filling of the Holy Spirit . This is as if when they first believed the Holy Spirit it only offered a remnant of faith to "fully believe God" .(The filling of the Holy Spirit.)

From my experience the idea of looking to the foundation of the doctrine of Tongues is taboo . Like who would think that God would mock the Jews with stammering lips that refused to believe Him even in their own tongue (Hebrew) with mocking lips as a sign against them confirming their unbelief (no faith) .

For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. Isaiah 28: 11-14

 

[Hevosmies]

Im just going on my evening jog, I came to ask if everyone agrees with me yet? Or are you guys STILL wrong? Oy vey!

The faster everyone agrees with me, the faster we get rid of division and false doctrine.

The cessationist case CANNOT be made biblically, the argue that "that which is perfect" is the Bible is LUDICROUS! Nobody had the Bible like we do until a couple of centuries ago, and even then many werent able to read! Gifts are operating UNTIL Jesus returns, FACT. I dont care what anyone says. The Scriptures are clear, deal with it.

Now off to my jog, get to it and agree!

 

[WIbaptist]

I would think baptism a old testament ceremonial law that was used when a new priest entered the priesthood has not changed . (Exodus 28) The order has changed from the tribe of Levi to the new manner when the Son of man, Jesus when he was baptized (John 3:25) and entered the priesthood as the High Priest, coming from the tribe of Judah after melchezedek as a kingdom of priests, male and female, Jew and gentile sending us into the world with the gospel of Christ.. Many by pass the foundation of the doctrine. And the same applies with tongues God bringing prophecy in the languages of all the nations of the world as a sign against the unbelieving Jew previous brining prophecy in the Hebrew their own tongue And yet the still refused to believe the word of God as promised by Joel .

The foundation must be sought after or anything goes and rather than confirming as a sign against those who rather seek after the oral traditions of men they develop their own oral tradition. "make a noise" and it to them confirms they have the filling of the Holy Spirit . This is as if when they first believed the Holy Spirit it only offered a remnant of faith to "fully believe God" .(The filling of the Holy Spirit.)

From my experience the idea of looking to the foundation of the doctrine of Tongues is taboo . Like who would think that God would mock the Jews with stammering lips that refused to believe Him even in their own tongue (Hebrew) with mocking lips as a sign against them confirming their unbelief (no faith) .

For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. Isaiah 28: 11-14

The disciples also had flames swirling around and resting over their heads. Why isn’t that sought after as a sign of being baptized in fire?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I have done both. I have studied both the bible and tongues. The gift of tongues is of value, it edifys the believer and for it to edify the church, it needs to be interpreted. Love however is of up most value and importance. The way I see it is that say you have two people one speaks in tongues and the other does not. What if the one who speaks in tongues was most of the time proud, rude, self-seeking etc but the one who did not was loving, gentle, joyful, self-less etc most of the time- which one is walking closer to Jesus? Or it may be the reverse where the one who speaks in tongues is loving and self-less while the one who doesn't is the complete opposite in character. In that case the person speaking in tongues is walking closer to Jesus.

oh boy

I quoted what you said yesterday

you said it...I commented on it...it seems you are saying something different today

if you do not see what you posting, even if I quote it to you, how should one address what you say?

What if the one who speaks in tongues was most of the time proud, rude, self-seeking etc but the one who did not was loving, gentle, joyful, self-less etc most of the time- which one is walking closer to Jesus?

listen...you find people like that all over the place...tongues or no tongues

what is the criteria in the Bible? that is where you begin...not with how people act because like I said, tongues has nothing to do with the observable arrogance we see in some. in fact, some of the worst detractors of tongues in this forum are arrogant and nasty with everyone...it's just who they are I guess

 

[stonesoffire]

I've sort of asked this before in bits and pieces, but to have it all in one post -

Many tongues-speakers allude to three ‘types’, or 'categories' of tongues: real, counterfeit/fake, and demonic.

This begs a few questions –

When you hear someone speak tongues and you say it’s counterfeit/fake/ or demonic, or legit/real, what makes it that way?

What, to you, constitutes a ‘fake’ tongue?? What makes it ‘fake’? Why is it any less ‘real’ than you’re your tongue? Obviously, this doesn’t include the “woulda-coulda-shoulda-bought-a-honda” variety; or is this in fact the only criteria for a ‘fake’ tongue; i.e. an obvious play on obvious real language words?

What, to you, constitutes a ‘demonic’ tongue?? Is it the ‘words’ being spoken, the sounds themselves, the intonation or voice timbre of the speaker, just a “bad feeling” about what you’re hearing, or someone telling you that they’re ‘demonic’?? Again, what makes this type of tongue different from yours?

And of course, what, to you, makes your tongue ‘real’?? Why do you perceive it as language? What makes it so? Again, the sounds, intonation, the ‘words’, just a feeling that it’s ‘right‘ and ‘correct’? What, to you, constitutes a real/legit tongue?

I’m not looking for Bible quotes, I want it in your own words – Why do you make a distinction between the three and what constitutes a particular tongue falling into a particular category? Is it just a matter of perception (I guess some would prefer the term ‘discernment’), or something else?

I don’t mean this to be sound the wrong way, but folks, these are your three labels, not mine. I’m asking you to define these three categories more concisely/clearly.

For a bit of reference, I classify two types of glossolalia: ‘real’ and ‘fake’; but my criteria, I suspect, is very different than yours.

For me, ‘real’ would be glossolalia which is subconsciously produced; the speaker is aware of it, can control things like volume, starting and stopping, etc., but the glossic string itself is clearly ‘flowing’; it is produced seemingly without any conscious effort.

‘Fake’, on the other hand, is glossolalia which is obviously being produced with a conscious effort. It doesn’t quite flow, and it seems to involve an obvious conscious effort to produce.

I don't know about demonic tongues. I've never heard what I thought was demonic. But, I can tell if the anointing is present with someone's prayer language or in giving a message.

You can say the words at anytime, but it's the connection with Holy Spirit that's fruitful.

And I can't say that what sounds like repetitive babbling the same sounds is demonic either. Possibly out of a desire to have the gift, one might do that. Or has evil intentions for being in the meeting. Evil intentions could either be of flesh or demonic I suppose.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

The disciples also had flames swirling around and resting over their heads. Why isn’t that sought after as a sign of being baptized in fire?

LOL!

that isn't listed as one of the spiritual gifts

you might try seeking wisdom though...but please put knowledge first!

 

[CS1]

Why then Paul does not taught this? Everything what is important for us is taught.
You are putting verses out of the context for to create this doctrine.
But it is not found in the bible as advise ore information for the church.
And you can quote the churchfathers ore others in the churchhistorie.
This was not taught!
If it would stand in the bible and if it would tsught in the same way. Then this would be normal in every christian life. The people in acts 2 ore 10 ore 19 must not ask the Holy Spirit for to speak in tongues. It just happend to them.

Today you are taught you must learn to speak in tongues, you must ever and ever ask the Holy Spirit to give this gift.

This shows that you cant combine Acts and 1.Cor. together.
And Paul said clearly that prophecie is much better then speaking in tongues.

But the pentecostal movement and later the charismatic waves makes the speaking in tongues so important that the meaning came up that without speaking in tongues you are not a real christian.
According Paul then you should rather prophecy. But nobody is teaching this?
Why?

Jesus did and Paul did teach on the empowering of the Holy Spirit it is in Acts 19: 2. Your assertion is not Biblical

 

[CS1]

Yet the kundalini found them and they have embraced it. One doesn’t need to seek the Holy Spirit. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation. I never said don’t lay on hands but test the spirit before accepting anything.

your assertion in unbiblical Jesus taught us too seek the empowering of the Holy Spirit, in Acts 1:8 Also Paul did too in Acts 19:2 . You are wrong.

 

[CS1]

You are making my point. The Bible never says tongues is the first sign every believer will display or that they will be gifted with it. We are not to seek a baptism of the Holy Spirt. It was poured out to the disciples as the initial outpouring. Now it is one and the same as our salvation.

again no one said it is the first sign but you.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I never said it’s a group of people 🤣. It’s a serpentine spirit that coils around the spine. It is not the Holy Spirit yet a Pentecostal revival is identical to a kundalini awakening in Hinduism.

says who?

how about the rejection of the Holy Spirit? where does that come from?

seems that could be an evil spirit as well. I mean if you are going to call the Holy Spirit evil, that cannot be God

that's the problem with so many of you folk...you see a video and ASSUME everyone has an evil spirit yet you have no problem concluding you don't

hmmmm

 

[WIbaptist]

again no one said it is the first sign but you.

It is part of the doctrine for the Assembly’s of God.