Holy Spirit baptism

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wattie

wattie

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Feb 24, 2009
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Often it is said that the Holy Spirit baptises someone at salvation.

What is the biblical basis for this?

Because when Jesus says ti the disciples I will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire..

1 the disciples were already saved

2 they were as a group.. not individuals alone

3 Acts 2 is the time when this does happen and it isn't associated with eternal salvation for the disciples. This is a church being empowered
 
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wattie said:
Often it is said that the Holy Spirit baptises someone at salvation.

What is the biblical basis for this?

Because when Jesus says ti the disciples I will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire..

1 the disciples were already saved

2 they were as a group.. not individuals alone

3 Acts 2 is the time when this does happen and it isn't associated with eternal salvation for the disciples. This is a church being empowered
Click to expand...
Why you think that the disciples were already saved?
 
wattie said:
Often it is said that the Holy Spirit baptises someone at salvation.

What is the biblical basis for this?
Click to expand...

this, mostly --

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, Who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession — to the praise of His glory! ​
(Ephesians 1:13-14) ​
​
it describes us having been sealed with the Holy Spirit when we heard & believed.
 
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wattie said:
Because when Jesus says ti the disciples I will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire..

1 the disciples were already saved

2 they were as a group.. not individuals alone

3 Acts 2 is the time when this does happen and it isn't associated with eternal salvation for the disciples. This is a church being empowered
Click to expand...

there's a significant distinction that the Spirit hadn't been given before Acts 2 - remember Christ had told them that if He Himself didn't depart, the Comforter wouldn't be sent - so we might say, this is a sort of dividing moment, and the situation is different for those who came to faith after Christ ascended and those who did in His presence. on Him, the Spirit was 'poured out without measure' - so it isn't as tho the disciples who believed while walking with Him didn't have access to the Holy Spirit, through Christ Himself, because they had the presence of Christ Himself.
 
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wattie said:
Often it is said that the Holy Spirit baptises someone at salvation.

What is the biblical basis for this?

Because when Jesus says ti the disciples I will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire..

1 the disciples were already saved

2 they were as a group.. not individuals alone

3 Acts 2 is the time when this does happen and it isn't associated with eternal salvation for the disciples. This is a church being empowered
Click to expand...
But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.


14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts ch8:12-17

In charismatic circles, that I have known, they differentiate between the Holy Spirit entering a persons life at the point of conversion, and what they term 'The baptism in the Spirit/or filling of the Spirit' A person cannot be a Christian/in a saved state unless the Spirit is in them(Rom8:9), but is there a biblical case for a subsequent experience of the Holy Spirit?
In Acts ch8 we read the samarians believed the good news preached by Phillip and were baptised. Were they then in a saved state? Or, did Philip preach the good news to them, then depart knowingly leaving them in an unsaved state? The latter is not credible. He left the new converts alive in Christ. Yet after a time Peter and John went to Samaria, placed their hands on the Samarians and they received the Holy Spirit. A distinction must be drawn between this event, and the fact the Spirit must have entered the lives of the Samarians when they accepted the message and became believers.
 
Tim416 said:
But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.


14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts ch8:12-17

In charismatic circles, that I have known, they differentiate between the Holy Spirit entering a persons life at the point of conversion, and what they term 'The baptism in the Spirit/or filling of the Spirit' A person cannot be a Christian/in a saved state unless the Spirit is in them(Rom8:9), but is there a biblical case for a subsequent experience of the Holy Spirit?
In Acts ch8 we read the samarians believed the good news preached by Phillip and were baptised. Were they then in a saved state? Or, did Philip preach the good news to them, then depart knowingly leaving them in an unsaved state? The latter is not credible. He left the new converts alive in Christ. Yet after a time Peter and John went to Samaria, placed their hands on the Samarians and they received the Holy Spirit. A distinction must be drawn between this event, and the fact the Spirit must have entered the lives of the Samarians when they accepted the message and became believers.
Click to expand...

Well, if you recognize the in the eyes of the jews it would be new that the gospel is not only for them alone. Then acts 8 can be seen as an one time event which shows the jews that the Gospel is as well for the samaritias. As we find it in acts 10 for the gentiles. Ore in acts 19 for the disciples of John the baptist. Nothing more, then an revealing to the Jews that the Gospel is free for all.
 
wolfwint said:
Well, if you recognize the in the eyes of the jews it would be new that the gospel is not only for them alone. Then acts 8 can be seen as an one time event which shows the jews that the Gospel is as well for the samaritias. As we find it in acts 10 for the gentiles. Ore in acts 19 for the disciples of John the baptist. Nothing more, then an revealing to the Jews that the Gospel is free for all.
Click to expand...
Im sure many could give many different interpretations to what is written. However, in the case of the samarians, having the Holy Spirit dwell in them at the point of conversion, and receiving the Holy Spirit when Peter and John laid hands on them must speak of two distinctive events
 
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wattie said:
Often it is said that the Holy Spirit baptises someone at salvation.

What is the biblical basis for this?

Because when Jesus says ti the disciples I will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire..

1 the disciples were already saved

2 they were as a group.. not individuals alone

3 Acts 2 is the time when this does happen and it isn't associated with eternal salvation for the disciples. This is a church being empowered
Click to expand...

In his excellent book, ‘The Holy Spirit, who He is and what He does’ R.A.Torrey makes a very convincing case. He argues that salvation, in which one receives the indwelling holy spirit, is a separate event (that can occur simultaneously) to the baptism of the holy spirit and that further infillings of the spirit on later occasions following the baptism should be prayed for and expected.
The baptism in the spirit is supposed to equip you with power to perform your ministry. It is not a badge of honour, but simply tools to get the job done.
 
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wattie said:
Often it is said that the Holy Spirit baptises someone at salvation.

What is the biblical basis for this?

Because when Jesus says ti the disciples I will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire..

1 the disciples were already saved

2 they were as a group.. not individuals alone

3 Acts 2 is the time when this does happen and it isn't associated with eternal salvation for the disciples. This is a church being empowered
Click to expand...

The disciples where not already saved.. They where followers of Jesus on His earthly mission but they did not understand the Way of salvation until it was revealed to them after the reasurection of Jesus.. They did not sully understand the Way of salvation until the day of penticost when they did recieve the Holy Spirit..
 
1. Baptism of the Holy spirit doesn't mean indwelling of the Holy spirit, it means to empower someone to do something and this was only for the Apostles and the first century church who were the foundation of the church. They were empowered to preach the gospel and confirm it through signs and wonders.

2. Before Pentecost, the disciples were empowered by the Holy spirit and they did miracles in Jerusalem, but it was at Pentecost that they were empowered to preach also unto the gentiles. Tongues was a sign that they could now preach to the gentiles.

3. Indwelling of the Holy spirit is for the church or in the new covenant which only comes after the gospel was preached as a witness to all nations. When God indwells or makes a permanent residence in man, they become some form of Messiah and this is what we call knowing God face to face.

This is what they all waited for:

Heb 10: 24And let us consider how to spur one another on to love and good deeds. 25Let us not neglect meeting together, as some have made a habit, but let us encourage one another, and all the more as you see the Day approaching. .....
36You need to persevere, so that after you have done God’s will, you will receive what He has promised. 37For,
in just a little while, He who is coming will come and will not delay.

Rom 13:11And do this, understanding the occasion. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, for our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12The night is nearly over; the day has drawn near. So let us lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light.
 
I bought a limited edition Snickers today. Its white chocolate.

Tastes great.
 
wolfwint said:
Why you think that the disciples were already saved?
Click to expand...

Well most likely Judas was not saved..but the disciples were with Jesus.. God in the flesh. They were doing His work before Pentecost.

How could they be that close to Jesus and not have been converted?

Yes there were others who knew of Jesus.. but the disciples were committed believers
 
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