Does God want us to choose between law and grace?

[TheDivineWatermark]

I think I understood, in order not to be iunder the law the law had to be abolished. If he got that wrong, his context of heb 10 would also be wrong I imagine.

Can you let me know whereabouts in the article he states the above point ^? (I'm not recalling, at present, sorry)

It's my understanding that he is pointing out the "YOU" that died... and that died... and then were raised with Him--wholly outside the realm of law.

In fact, it says in verse 1 "the law hath dominion over a man AS LONG AS HE LIVES" (and verse 4 stating "have been put to death by means of the body of Christ")... which is the point he is making in his article...

 

[p_rehbein]

NO

 

[Tim416]

Can you let me know whereabouts in the article he states the above point ^? (I'm not recalling, at present, sorry)

It's my understanding that he is pointing out the "YOU" that died... and that died... and then were raised with Him--wholly outside the realm of law.

In fact, it says in verse 1 "the law hath dominion over a man AS LONG AS HE LIVES" (and verse 4 stating "have been put to death by means of the body of Christ")... which is the point he is making in his article...

But, to return, as to these 2000 years since the death and resurrection of Christ, are we, as believers, under the ministry of law written on stones, or is it abolished, even as to those who had been under it? The Apostle calls it “the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones.” He declares it “done away.” “That which is abolished.” Man calls it the rule of life and says we are under it: Shall I believe man or God

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Hebrews 10 -

"2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased being offered, because of those serving having been cleansed once, no longer having conscience of sins?"

so the context here in Hebrews 10 has to do with this ^

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

But, to return, as to these 2000 years since the death and resurrection of Christ, are we, as believers, under the ministry of law written on stones, or is it abolished, even as to those who had been under it? The Apostle calls it “the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones.” He declares it “done away.” “That which is abolished.” Man calls it the rule of life and says we are under it: Shall I believe man or God

Okay, so here he is saying, "are WE, as believers, UNDER" it

Hebrews 10's fuller context is referring to "conscience of sins"

 

[Tim416]

Can you let me know whereabouts in the article he states the above point ^? (I'm not recalling, at present, sorry)

It's my understanding that he is pointing out the "YOU" that died... and that died... and then were raised with Him--wholly outside the realm of law.

In fact, it says in verse 1 "the law hath dominion over a man AS LONG AS HE LIVES" (and verse 4 stating "have been put to death by means of the body of Christ")... which is the point he is making in his article...

You die to justification/righteousness of obeying the law. You die to la as we all understand law to mean, the legally enforceable law with its attached penalty for transgression/sin
If you die to what is written in the law you could not be conscious of sin in regard to committing adultery, coveting, stealing, taking the Lords name, for:
Through the law we become conscious of sin rom3:20

 

[Tim416]

Okay, so here he is saying, "are WE, as believers, UNDER" it

Hebrews 10's fuller context is referring to "conscience of sins"

Then let me ask you. Do you believe the law must be abolished in order for Christians not to be under the condemnation of it?
You have failed to respond to nearly everything I have written, but that's ok.
2 Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshippers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins.

Guilty unto condemnation

 

[Grandpa]

NO

YES

 

[know1]

Paul was converted outside a preacher,as was i.
Many Muslims are getting visitations in dreams and such,getting born again without a preacher.
But the one called the Word (Jesus) shows up and transforms.
But yes you are somewhat right.

No offense but I am very right.

Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

As I was saying, Jesus is the way to eternal life, which is in Christ, which happens to be in the kingdom of God. One cannot get in the kingdom of God without receiving the gospel of Jesus Christ for themselves, PERSONALLY.
Salvation is like healing. Until you receive the word of truth or promise of God and act on said word/promise for yourself, personally, then it most likely wont manifest in the natural.
To him that has, [that which he has received personally and acted upon] shall be given [to] him.
And so it is with salvation, until you receive the gospel concerning salvation personally, and act upon said word of truth or promise of God, then nothing has happened, and the person will remain unsaved.
One cannot merely believe Jesus is the savior of the world and go to heaven. They have to receive said savior for themselves personally, while acting upon the word of God, before they actually receive Jesus in their heart for eternal life and enter into the kingdom of God.
Faith without corresponding action to that which one receives, is dead.

 

[know1]

1 Corinthians 15 King James Version (KJV)
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Yeah so. What about the other apostles?
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

If you don't keep the gospel of salvation until the end of your life, then you too will have believed in vain.
Understand, truths of God's word are like the laws of physics.
They don't change with time.
Even as a law is the same law both before Christ shows up and after His ascension , so is a truth the same both before and after Christ's ascension.
1+1=2 both before the new testament and after, and so it is with other truths written in the old testament. They didn't stop being a truth once the new testament came into existence.

Psa 119:89 LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.
Psa 119:90 Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth.

 

[preston39]

True,, but the question is.... do i throw out the law or by grace obey it?

Grace is the granting by G-d for forgiveness. Keeping the law is the methodology of qualifying for grace's granting of eternal salvation.
We must keep their meaning and roles in clear and separate views.

 

[TMS]

Do we choose between law and Grace? Yes, No, Yes, No, maybe.
Take the law away and we don't need any grace
Take the Grace away and we are condemned by the law as sinners.

The reason we need a saviour today is because there is still a law today.

 

[PS]

There is no choice as to whether we live under law or under faith. Physically I live under my earthly King, or as at present my Queen. Spiritually I live under God who gave us a New Covenant of grace.

Those who live under law are in the wilderness.

 

[TMS]

There is no choice as to whether we live under law or under faith. Physically I live under my earthly King, or as at present my Queen. Spiritually I live under God who gave us a New Covenant of grace.

Those who live under law are in the wilderness.

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

 

[PS]

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

 

[PS]

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. (Heb 10:16-17 KJV)

This is the New Covenant of Grace that even now people are rejecting, preferring instead salvation by works which is impossible to obtain.

 

[TMS]

There is no choice as to whether we live under law or under faith. Physically I live under my earthly King, or as at present my Queen. Spiritually I live under God who gave us a New Covenant of grace.

Those who live under law are in the wilderness.

By Faith alone we are saved.
But please consider the whole picture.
1. We are sinners because there is a law which points out sin.
2. we need salvation from sin (not the law) and Jesus paid the price, so we can be saved by grace.
3. Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
4. we keep the law not to be saved (Jesus already did that), but because we love Jesus and the law is love.
5. We have faith in Jesus and His grace to save us from sin, (yesterday, today, and tomorrow).

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
2Jn_1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

If we are free from the penalty of murder (no jail time), should we murder? No
We are free from the penalty of the law, but we should aim to keep it because Jesus did. Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

 

[PS]

By Faith alone we are saved.
But please consider the whole picture.
1. We are sinners because there is a law which points out sin.
2. we need salvation from sin (not the law) and Jesus paid the price, so we can be saved by grace.
3. Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
4. we keep the law not to be saved (Jesus already did that), but because we love Jesus and the law is love.
5. We have faith in Jesus and His grace to save us from sin, (yesterday, today, and tomorrow).

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
2Jn_1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

If we are free from the penalty of murder (no jail time), should we murder? No
We are free from the penalty of the law, but we should aim to keep it because Jesus did. Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Yes, there are two laws, you are right. There is the civil law by which we are condemned if we break it, and may even suffer death under it if we commit murder for example.

Then there is God's law of grace by which our sins are forgiven.

The 613 Mitzvot laws are like our civil law and are applicable to those who live under Jewish law, from which there is no forgiveness of sin.

We need to obey civil law when driving for example, and we cannot claim exemption, there is none under the law, whether it be Jewish, American, or English law, but there is forgiveness in Christ. Trouble is, those who reject Jesus as their Lord, God, and Saviour are rejected by Almighty God. They have no faith in Jesus Christ.

The phone has just rung. I need to go out, speak to you later.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

YES

I will never understand why people want us to follow the thing which brings death, and claim this is a good thing,

Jesus said he wants us to focus on, and love others, that is our mission as the function of the body, you can not do that if you are focused on the law continually to see how good you are doing!

not to mention, if they truly understood the law, they would realise that the law would continually proved how bad they were doing. And continually focusing on it would either take alot of work continuously trying, (failure to enter gods rest) or cause them the be overwhelmed with trying the impossible and knowledge they can’t do it, causing many to stop trying and leave altogether.

Or worse yet to become arrogant and proud like the pharisee, and ignore the fact the law condemns them by watering down the law, and out of anger judge people they consider grave sinners (murder rape porn) so they do not have to look at their own sin, and get mad at those who preach grace who tell them their work is like bloody rags and are worthless, like Jesus told the jewish religious leaders..and like we have attempted to explain to them here

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No offense but I am very right.

Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

As I was saying, Jesus is the way to eternal life, which is in Christ, which happens to be in the kingdom of God. One cannot get in the kingdom of God without receiving the gospel of Jesus Christ for themselves, PERSONALLY.
Salvation is like healing. Until you receive the word of truth or promise of God and act on said word/promise for yourself, personally, then it most likely wont manifest in the natural.
To him that has, [that which he has received personally and acted upon] shall be given [to] him.
And so it is with salvation, until you receive the gospel concerning salvation personally, and act upon said word of truth or promise of God, then nothing has happened, and the person will remain unsaved.
One cannot merely believe Jesus is the savior of the world and go to heaven. They have to receive said savior for themselves personally, while acting upon the word of God, before they actually receive Jesus in their heart for eternal life and enter into the kingdom of God.
Faith without corresponding action to that which one receives, is dead.

You almost got it,

True faith works, so true faith in God and recieving his gracious gift of eternal life will save a person, out of that true faith and out of the power of being made a child of God comes good works.

Thats why if works are not present in one who CLAIMS to have faith, james tells them to test thwir faith, because even demons believe, mere belief is not enough it takes true living faith to save.

Saying work has to be done first is like putting a person under law, and if we add one work, as paul said, we are indebted to obey the whole law, james tells us if we fail in one point, we are guilty, and cursed.