Yes that's all well and good, but are Christians obligated to give financially to the church under the new covenant?
Do you know your scripture?
- Thread starter Adam4Eve
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Yes that's all well and good, but are Christians obligated to give financially to the church under the new covenant?
Just trying to get to the heart of the matter.
We are not obligated to give. Neither are we obligated to use our bodies as living sacrifices unto God, yet does the apostle Paul say we ought to, out of gratitude (its the least we can do). In like fashion, why would we withhold our money from giving to others and the Church, especially when we, as believers, know that it really isn't subtracting from us (in consideration of sowing and reaping)?
Here is the verse you're looking for, btw.
2 Corinthians 9:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
We aren't to give "of necessity", which means out of obligation or compulsion.
Yet also...
1 John 3:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1 John 3:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
This thread isn't about being generous with skills or belongings or abilities, it specifically about obliged financial giving.
Are there any instructions God gives that is specific to that under the new covenant?
Yes, when the church is understood as a body of individual believers. Give all you can to them, as long as possible. Pray that God blesses you to give to others.
And Yes, even when the church is understood as a 5013c entity. Because you give to Caesar what is his. If you willingly join and belong to such a church you should follow all the bylaws of said church. One should not place themselves as a rebel against the Word that says give to them what is required.
You joined, you participate as required or leave. Simple.
I don't feel that my first post could have been any clearer, but I'll try to be:
What this thread is NOT about:
- "I thinks it's good to contribute to the running costs of the Church you attend"
- "You should feel able to help other Christians if they are in a time of need"
- "You're QUESTIONING something? This must mean you have some kind of secret agenda!"
- "You should readily offer your services"
What this thread IS about:
- Obligated financial giving to the church in the new covenant.
What this thread is NOT about:
- "I thinks it's good to contribute to the running costs of the Church you attend"
- "You should feel able to help other Christians if they are in a time of need"
- "You're QUESTIONING something? This must mean you have some kind of secret agenda!"
- "You should readily offer your services"
What this thread IS about:
- Obligated financial giving to the church in the new covenant.
so...
i get from the OP the impression that you're looking for someone with a misguided opinion about so-called-tithing in the modern church, so you can tell them they're wrong?
oh yes. it definitely is. ubiquitously so, according to my personal survey of sermonaudio and the fellowships i've visited & been a part of here in my own area.
if you want to hear from someone who will defend it, i am not able to help tho
Yes, its still a thing. At least, there are people that still tithe ("giving a tenth") of their earnings to honor God with their finances and reap the rewards of such giving (including supporting the spreading of the Gospel).
You clearly are opposed to tithing, but since we've established through scripture why people are not under compulsion to do so, why does it feel like you still have a bone to pick?
Does asking questions make me for or against anything?
I'm not for or against anything than finding out the truth of God's word.
Yes, tithe means a tenth, but a tithe is compulsory.
Giving a tenth voluntarily is called donating.
Please do not leave room for terminological inexactitude.
oh yes. it definitely is. ubiquitously so, according to my personal survey of sermonaudio and the fellowships i've visited & been a part of here in my own area.
if you want to hear from someone who will defend it, i am not able to help tho
Should I mention that a tithe, giving a tenth, happened before the Law of Moses, and therefore is not subject to us not being under the Law, and therefore, could be argued that it is still in effect? Oh no, I wouldn't want to ruffle feathers.
oh yes. it definitely is. ubiquitously so, according to my personal survey of sermonaudio and the fellowships i've visited & been a part of here in my own area.
if you want to hear from someone who will defend it, i am not able to help tho
So you're saying that obligated giving is still valid under the new covenant, but you're not willing to explain why?
Ruffle whatever feathers you like.
I care about the truth, less about how people feel.
Please explain further.
You've said above that obligated giving is not in effect now, and you've stated that repeatedly.
But now you're saying if us?
Terminological inexactitude;
Giving a tenth voluntarily is donating, giving a tenth under obligation is tithing.
Please let him speak for himself.
I'm sure he is capable.
any church service that includes the words 'now it's time to take our tithes and offerings..'
it may not be preached there openly as a requirement, but 'tithe' is a loaded word with a very specific meaning in scripture. any preacher you hear use that word, if they have any salt, probably knows all too well that it's a loaded word with a very specific meaning.
personally i think churches should not be using that word at all to refer to taking up & collecting gifts. it is wrong & deceptive use of the term, IMO. ((MOO?))
i'm not familiar enough with denominations to say much of it, but certain major groups in Christianity *probably* teach tithing with a justification rooted specifically as part of some kind of weird 'continuation of the covenants' theological stance. i'm thinking specifically of Presbyterians, because i recently visited a Bible-study at a Presbyterian church ((which turned out to be a catechism class, not really a study, but long story)) -- afterwards i did a lot of research into infant baptism, which led me into topics about various kinds of 'covenant' theology. even if i could do a fair job ((that's open to debate)) of describing how a certain theological clique comes to a justification of demanding tithes, i won't because personally i think the theology behind it has a lot of self-conflicting hooey involved and i don't care to spread it. but, that said, there you go, it does exist.
the LDS definitely *requires* tithes. their justification is probably pretty easy to look up but again, load of hooey i don't really care to verse myself in, and i wouldn't call them part of 'the Church' anyhow.
it may not be preached there openly as a requirement, but 'tithe' is a loaded word with a very specific meaning in scripture. any preacher you hear use that word, if they have any salt, probably knows all too well that it's a loaded word with a very specific meaning.
personally i think churches should not be using that word at all to refer to taking up & collecting gifts. it is wrong & deceptive use of the term, IMO. ((MOO?))
i'm not familiar enough with denominations to say much of it, but certain major groups in Christianity *probably* teach tithing with a justification rooted specifically as part of some kind of weird 'continuation of the covenants' theological stance. i'm thinking specifically of Presbyterians, because i recently visited a Bible-study at a Presbyterian church ((which turned out to be a catechism class, not really a study, but long story)) -- afterwards i did a lot of research into infant baptism, which led me into topics about various kinds of 'covenant' theology. even if i could do a fair job ((that's open to debate)) of describing how a certain theological clique comes to a justification of demanding tithes, i won't because personally i think the theology behind it has a lot of self-conflicting hooey involved and i don't care to spread it. but, that said, there you go, it does exist.
the LDS definitely *requires* tithes. their justification is probably pretty easy to look up but again, load of hooey i don't really care to verse myself in, and i wouldn't call them part of 'the Church' anyhow.