Following Paul To Follow Christ

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Noblemen

Senior Member
#1
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
43
#1
1Cor. 11:1

Paul said
1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

That is very plain spoken translated English. How many time did he say it. In very plain speech Paul said to follow him as he followed Christ. These words can be a stumbling block to those that have been long taught not to follow man and do just as Jesus of Nazareth did.
Without any idea what Paul was talking about they give their foolish notions.

No idea when you follow Paul you are following Christ, no understanding of what Paul was bringing to the body of Christ. Their foolish teaching would be better suited to quote "no man can teach you but the anointing." Looking forward to the day that comes from a pulpit.

For a believer to see what Paul had to say and follow him, they first must see that what was given to Moses was for Israel only, it is not for the Gentile or born again.
The born again believer has been given a new message, a new gospel that comes through the cross.
The death of Christ on the cross changed the process for God's earthly people. No longer was "heaven on earth" in view, but God initiated a new program where believers would be invited directly to
the Father's house. This was a radical change in God's plan. This change was not an "off the cuff" last minute change. It had been in God's mind even before He created the earth, Eph. 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#2
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#2
Noblemen said:
1Cor. 11:1

Paul said
1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

That is very plain spoken translated English. How many time did he say it. In very plain speech Paul said to follow him as he followed Christ. These words can be a stumbling block to those that have been long taught not to follow man and do just as Jesus of Nazareth did.
Without any idea what Paul was talking about they give their foolish notions.

No idea when you follow Paul you are following Christ, no understanding of what Paul was bringing to the body of Christ. Their foolish teaching would be better suited to quote "no man can teach you but the anointing." Looking forward to the day that comes from a pulpit.

For a believer to see what Paul had to say and follow him, they first must see that what was given to Moses was for Israel only, it is not for the Gentile or born again.
The born again believer has been given a new message, a new gospel that comes through the cross.
The death of Christ on the cross changed the process for God's earthly people. No longer was "heaven on earth" in view, but God initiated a new program where believers would be invited directly to
the Father's house. This was a radical change in God's plan. This change was not an "off the cuff" last minute change. It had been in God's mind even before He created the earth, Eph. 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Click to expand...
The thing that blows my mind is how many people, out of ignorance will pit the words of Paul against JESUS and or try to override the words of Paul with JAMES........Jesus had many things to say to his disciples, but they were not yet ready.....THESE are the words of PAUL and as I have said and will say again...the words of Paul are the the words of JESUS (unless noted by Paul himself which he does do)

MANY deny, reject, ignore, overlook, dismiss the absolute truth that Jesus was born, lived and died under the LAW which ratified the NEW Covenant.....HIS words MUST be viewed in LIGHT of this truth and the words of Jesus through PAUL must be viewed in light of this truth.....

Lastly...JAMES and PAUL do not contradict, nor is one or the other teaching that man is justified before GOD by works................boiled down the following is factual...

Paul in Romans teaches a man is justified before GOD by faith without the deeds/works of the law attached
James in James teaches the above faith that justifies before God can be SEEN by MEN based upon our works/deeds

End of story
 
Marcelo

Marcelo

Senior Member
#3
Feb 4, 2016
2,359
859
113
73
#3
Noblemen said:
............ when you follow Paul you are following Christ,
Click to expand...
I can't count how many times I've been called a false teacher, false prophet, truth twister, etc, for saying that. But the truth is: when you follow Paul you are following the risen Christ. And ... in case of conflict, the words of the risen Christ take precedence over the words of the earthly Jesus.
 
N

Noblemen

Senior Member
#4
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
43
#4
Marcelo said:
I can't count how many times I've been called a false teacher, false prophet, truth twister, etc, for saying that. But the truth is: when you follow Paul you are following the risen Christ. And ... in case of conflict, the words of the risen Christ take precedence over the words of the earthly Jesus.
Click to expand...
There is a depth to paul that we can say "when you read Paul, you are reading the mind of Christ." Folk want to know how to get the mind of Christ, read Paul, follow Paul in the scripture.
 
O

obedienttogod

Guest
#5
#5
Marcelo said:
And ... in case of conflict, the words of the risen Christ take precedence over the words of the earthly Jesus.
Click to expand...

You are aware that Yeshua was full of both the Father (as He eloquently explains in John) and of the Holy Spirit (as He points out this is His power source to cast out Demons, to heal, to perform miracles in Matthew 12)...meaning He was the Christ well before He ever resurrected?

Before He journeyed after instructing His Disciples that He would be caught, killed, and rise again...Peter answered His question to WHOM they thought He was. Peter claimed, Yeshua was the Messiah!! This means the Christ, or Anointed One. To be Anointed, meant He was full of the Father and the Holy Spirit. This is why it is written, that within Him was the full GodHead!!

So, to emphasize there is a difference in what He spoke about before/after His Death-Burial-Resurrection makes no sense. You would be ignoring His message concerning the Tribulation like never seen before. Where He expounds that the Elect will indeed go through the Tribulation and the days will be shortened in those times, when no man can bare such suffering for the Elect's sake. That immediately after the Tribulation ends, the sun darkens and the moon turns to blood. This is when the Elect is charged to keep close watch for the sign of lightning that splits the skies from the East to the West. This is the Second Coming and the angels will be sent to gather the remaining Elect.

His Parables explain how the Father views us even when we fall and turn away.

His message on Faith is essential to our every day walk. We learned the true essence of Communion and why we should observe it. We see examples of how to face adversity, and how we can properly see miracles, victory, and signs by our own walk in Him through His power. The list is endless to what we would be throwing away if we did as you suggest.

And if this is how you proclaimed to those who felt you were a false teacher-prophet-etc, I have no doubts to the reasoning behind why someone with the knowledge of God's Word would label you as such!!
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#6
#6
obedienttogod said:
His Parables explain how the Father views us even when we fall and turn away.
Click to expand...
See this what happens when you read one part not putting in context of the whole which Paul does so completely.....

I have been established, anointed and sealed by God in Christ, and I have
been given to the Holy Spirit as a pledge guaranteeing my
inheritance to come. (2 Corinthians 1:21; Ephesians 1:13,14)

I have been redeemed and forgiven of all my sins. The debt against me has
been cancelled. (Colossians 1:14)

I have been made righteous. (2 Corinthians 5:21)

I am a slave of righteousness. (Romans 6:18)
I am free from sin and enslaved to God. (Romans 6:22)
I am free forever from condemnation. (Romans 8:1)
I am a son of God; God is spiritually my Father. (Romans 8:14, 15
Galatians 3:26; 4:6)
I am a joint heir with Christ, sharing His inheritance with Him
(Romans 8:17)
 
Marcelo

Marcelo

Senior Member
#7
Feb 4, 2016
2,359
859
113
73
#7
obedienttogod said:
.....So, to emphasize there is a difference in what He spoke about before/after His Death-Burial-Resurrection makes no sense.
Click to expand...
Some of the earthly Jesus' teachings are eternal. Ex.: Blessed are the poor in spirit.
Some were not. Ex.: Obey the scribes and Pharisees.

Paul said we are not under the Law and therefore we don't have to follow any teacher of the law of Moses.
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#8
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
10,531
113
78
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#8
obedienttogod said:
So, to emphasize there is a difference in what He spoke about before/after His Death-Burial-Resurrection makes no sense. You would be ignoring His message concerning the Tribulation like never seen before. Where He expounds that the Elect will indeed go through the Tribulation and the days will be shortened in those times, when no man can bare such suffering for the Elect's sake. That immediately after the Tribulation ends, the sun darkens and the moon turns to blood. This is when the Elect is charged to keep close watch for the sign of lightning that splits the skies from the East to the West. This is the Second Coming and the angels will be sent to gather the remaining Elect.
Click to expand...
I am with you here, I do not see a conflict with what Christ was teaching before and after the resurrection. It all fits as well as the example He left us by doing those things He expects of us. He eloquently showed us the deeper/spiritual understanding of the moral laws given to the children of Israel. He laid out His salvation plan and told His followers just what to expect from their witnessing. He also gave us a picture of what His second coming would look like. :cool:
 
O

obedienttogod

Guest
#9
#9
UnderGrace said:
See this what happens when you read one part not putting in context of the whole which Paul does so completely.....

I have been established, anointed and sealed by God in Christ, and I have
been given to the Holy Spirit as a pledge guaranteeing my
inheritance to come. (2 Corinthians 1:21; Ephesians 1:13,14)

I have been redeemed and forgiven of all my sins. The debt against me has
been cancelled. (Colossians 1:14)

I have been made righteous. (2 Corinthians 5:21)

I am a slave of righteousness. (Romans 6:18)
I am free from sin and enslaved to God. (Romans 6:22)
I am free forever from condemnation. (Romans 8:1)
I am a son of God; God is spiritually my Father. (Romans 8:14, 15
Galatians 3:26; 4:6)
I am a joint heir with Christ, sharing His inheritance with Him
(Romans 8:17)
Click to expand...


But I am not speaking about Paul. Don't care to even mention him, while I am speaking about as to the why's our brother is being judged the way he was.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#10
#10
obedienttogod said:
But I am not speaking about Paul. Don't care to even mention him, while I am speaking about as to the why's our brother is being judged the way he was.
Click to expand...
I am writing how God views us period.
 
O

obedienttogod

Guest
#11
#11
Marcelo said:
Some of the earthly Jesus' teachings are eternal. Ex.: Blessed are the poor in spirit.
Some were not. Ex.: Obey the scribes and Pharisees.

Paul said we are not under the Law and therefore we don't have to follow any teacher of the law of Moses.
Click to expand...


Yeshua never said we were ever under the Law, He said He fulfilled the Law. He did what was necessary so the Law could become null and void. It was never about the human race ever being able to fulfill the purpose of Christ. It was always about after what Yeshua completes, there will be a new and better way.

And if you or anyone needs the clarification from Paul's point of view, that is fine. But Christ explained it perfectly. And it is without a doubt from the viewpoint of God. So we can take it to the bank as a Guarantee!!
 
Marcelo

Marcelo

Senior Member
#12
Feb 4, 2016
2,359
859
113
73
#12
obedienttogod said:
Yeshua never said we were ever under the Law, He said He fulfilled the Law. He did what was necessary so the Law could become null and void.
Click to expand...
You're right, He never said: "You are under the Law ", but He told His disciples to obey the Law: 18 For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.…

Note in verse 20 that the criterion for salvation taught by Jesus before the cross is another evidence that they were still under the Law.
 
O

obedienttogod

Guest
#13
#13
Marcelo said:
You're right, He never said: "You are under the Law ", but He told His disciples to obey the Law: 18 For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.…

Note in verse 20 that the criterion for salvation taught by Jesus before the cross is another evidence that they were still under the Law.
Click to expand...


And as soon as Yeshua accomplished/fulfilled the Law, this stipulation ended. So yes, they were still held according to the Law until Yeshua fulfilled His purpose. But as much as Christ reminded His Disciples they were under the Law, He also was teaching them the Law would end once everything was accomplished. And the Disciples eventually understood, this was why Yeshua had to be crucified. But outside what we read concerning Yeshua dealing with the Law, that all still relates to us this very day. And everything Paul expands upon, can be found in the teachings of Yeshua before and after His death-burial-resurrection.

And it is good to remember what Yeshua taught about the Law, because it reveals what specifically we are freed from by the personal viewpoint of God.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

Well-known member
#15
Jan 10, 2019
2,107
763
113
#15
Marcelo said:
I can't count how many times I've been called a false teacher, false prophet, truth twister, etc, for saying that. But the truth is: when you follow Paul you are following the risen Christ.
Click to expand...
Brother, it's clear the Apostles were following the example of Jesus as he walked on earth,

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus....made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant...., he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Phil.2:5,7,8

if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently....because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps 1Pet.2:20-21

He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. 1Jn.2:6

Marcelo said:
And ... in case of conflict, the words of the risen Christ take precedence over the words of the earthly Jesus.
Click to expand...
Jesus is the Word of God and could never be a conflict in anything He said at any time.
 
Marcelo

Marcelo

Senior Member
#16
Feb 4, 2016
2,359
859
113
73
#16
Journeyman said:
Jesus is the Word of God and could never be a conflict in anything He said at any time.
Click to expand...
Hello, brother Journeyman!

But fact is that there are some disagreements between the teachings of the earthly Jesus and the Risen One. The earthly Jesus preached obedience to the law of Moses, whereas Paul (the risen Jesus' spokesman) said we are not under the law. Jesus told the man cured from leprosy to present himself to the priest and perform sacrifices (Paul would never say that). Jesus said it is impossible for a rich person to enter heaven (it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle = impossible), whereas Paul said he could live in want or in plenty. According to the earthly Jesus very few will be saved. What did Paul say about that?

In my city there are "conflicting" rules regarding traffic lights: One says you must stop at red lights and another says that, between sunset and sunrise, you may go provided there is no crossing traffic.

The same happens in the New Testament: There are rules that apply to the Jews before the cross and rules that apply to both Jews and Gentiles after the cross, in the New Covenant.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#17
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#17
Marcelo said:
Some of the earthly Jesus' teachings are eternal. Ex.: Blessed are the poor in spirit.
Some were not. Ex.: Obey the scribes and Pharisees.

Paul said we are not under the Law and therefore we don't have to follow any teacher of the law of Moses.
Click to expand...
Wow i am glad to hear all those following and hanging on every word from the Pharisees dont have to do that one!
That Jesus was one mixed up dude Huh?
Man i hate that. Now i gotta not do every word from the Pharisees.

Oh wait,what are their words? I can't think of a single one.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#18
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#18
Marcelo said:
I can't count how many times I've been called a false teacher, false prophet, truth twister, etc, for saying that. But the truth is: when you follow Paul you are following the risen Christ. And ... in case of conflict, the words of the risen Christ take precedence over the words of the earthly Jesus.
Click to expand...
There is no conflict.
Jesus in revelation to the 7 churches neither referred to or based ANYTHING on Paul.
That would be the resurrected Jesus.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#19
Jan 13, 2016
17,129
3,689
113
#19
dcontroversal said:
The thing that blows my mind is how many people, out of ignorance will pit the words of Paul against JESUS and or try to override the words of Paul with JAMES........Jesus had many things to say to his disciples, but they were not yet ready.....THESE are the words of PAUL and as I have said and will say again...the words of Paul are the the words of JESUS (unless noted by Paul himself which he does do)

MANY deny, reject, ignore, overlook, dismiss the absolute truth that Jesus was born, lived and died under the LAW which ratified the NEW Covenant.....HIS words MUST be viewed in LIGHT of this truth and the words of Jesus through PAUL must be viewed in light of this truth.....

Lastly...JAMES and PAUL do not contradict, nor is one or the other teaching that man is justified before GOD by works................boiled down the following is factual...

Paul in Romans teaches a man is justified before GOD by faith without the deeds/works of the law attached
James in James teaches the above faith that justifies before God can be SEEN by MEN based upon our works/deeds

End of story
Click to expand...
How many works justify us before others? Why in the world do I need to justify myself before others? God is the just and the justifier of them who believe in Christ. Abraham was not justifying himself before others but unto God.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#20
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#20
John146 said:
How many works justify us before others? Why in the world do I need to justify myself before others? God is the just and the justifier of them who believe in Christ. Abraham was not justifying himself before others but unto God.
Click to expand...
Honestly think about what you just said in light of the truth of OTHERS seeing our GOOD works and GLORIFYING our Father which is in heaven....and then answer........

FAITH alone justifies before GOD

The results of FAITH--->WORKS justifies our claim of FAITH before MEN and POINTS MEN TO GOD and GIVES GLORY to GOD......why is it so hard for you and others to grasp that TRUTH
 
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