Is the Jewish God and gentile God the same?

[Blik]

Pe


I did not say dead or freed from the Law, Paul did

And you could not be more wrong about the greek word agape

Jesus said the Great commandment is to love God. Jesus said "this is my commandment that you love one another", Jesus said on love hangs all the Law and the prophets. John said that love is demonstrated by God giving His Son as a propitiation for our sins. John said love is demonstrated in Jesus laying down His life for us. James called love the royal law. Peter called love the bond of perfection. Paul said love abides forever. Love is in no way abstract, and it has everything to do with action

We are to be led by the Spirit. Paul said that before he was converted to Jesus, he was according to the righteousness of the Law blameless. Paul said he wanted to be found in Christ not having his own righteousness, which is by the Law, but having the righteousness which comes by faith in Christ.

Paul said that love is the fulfilling of the Law, because he who loves will not murder, lie, commit adultery, steal, etc. The Law is not for righteous, but for unrighteous. All of these things are in the bible IF you need book, chapter, or verse for any of them, let me know and I will provide it.

As I read through this, it sure seems mixed up. Paul taught law obedience, and that law he taught was the law of God. You can even murder in the name of the law, as Paul had done and was well aware of, so Paul was on a soapbox about God's law rather than the law as man interpreted it. But in the hands of us humans Paul's words comes out to disregard God's commands. As you, even, point out, that can't be.

Christ was NOT a Greek, Christ was thoroughly Hebrew. One of the many things the deep sea scroll discoveries did was to find that it was the Hebrew language mainly used by Hebrews in Christ's time. Only a very few of the deep sea scrolls were in Greek, almost all writings and scripture was in Hebrew, some even in the ancient paleo-Hebrew.

 

[Dino246]

In Galatians and Romans it is explained:

Gal_2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Gal_3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Rom_6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Romans and Galatians are clearly explaining that freedom from the law is not freedom to sin. Do you consider these to be the only options, or is there something else?

 

[Dino246]

Christ was NOT a Greek, Christ was thoroughly Hebrew. One of the many things the deep sea scroll discoveries did was to find that it was the Hebrew language mainly used by Hebrews in Christ's time. Only a very few of the deep sea scrolls were in Greek, almost all writings and scripture was in Hebrew, some even in the ancient paleo-Hebrew.

Psst... "Dead Sea", not "deep sea".

 

[kaylagrl]

The God of the OT is the same God of the NT. Jesus came to fulfill, which he did. God in three persons, trinity. Jewish God,Gentile God are one in the same.

 

[Grandpa]

There is much in scripture about law, and you come up with the idea to scratch it all for one verse that you say captures everything in scripture about law. There may be people who think you are knowledgeable.

We are told the law is holy, you are trying to take what is Holy and is of God and saying it is all trash and the entire structure of the world as the law is, every bit of it is bondage and a yoke.

In Galatians and Romans it is explained:

Gal_2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Gal_3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Rom_6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

……...

The law doesn't free you from sin.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

The problem isn't the law. Its you.

If there were a law that could cause you to be Righteous before God then Righteousness would have been by the Law.

Deuteronomy 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us.

I guess that didn't work out.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


I'm not the one who instituted a New Way. This same "jewish" God instituted this New Way. Apparently He found the Old Way lacking.

Hebrews 7:18-19
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

 

[Macabeus]

As I read through this, it sure seems mixed up. Paul taught law obedience

Paul taught justification by faith apart from the deeds of the Law, and he taught that it is foolish to seek to be perfected by any other means but faith and the work of God. Romans 3 and Galatians 3

You can even murder in the name of the law, as Paul had done and was well aware of, so Paul was on a soapbox about God's law rather than the law as man interpreted it. But in the hands of us humans Paul's words comes out to disregard God's commands. As you, even, point out, that can't be.

I believe in keeping God's commands. But you have to know what covenant you are under. We are not under the Old Covenant, but the New. The Old Covenant is obsolete. Circumcision, animal sacrifices, sabbaths, holy days, sprinkling blood, human priests, death penalty for adulterers, etc are of the Old Covenant, not the new.

If you want to keep every command in the Bible, you would have to stone adulterers. We do not stone adulterers, shave off our goatees, abstain from certain types of meat, throw away our multi fabric clothes, etc, because we are not under the Old Covenant.

The Old Covenant dietary laws and circumcision, etc were a protective barrier to keep Jews from being assimilated into the cultures of the Gentiles, UNTIL THE FULNESS OF TIME CAME. Now that Jesus has come, He has torn down the middle wall of partition that separated Jew and Gentile and made them one church in Christ. So there is no need of a barrier between Jew and Gentiles, which is what all of the Old Testament commands that are not comprehended in the word love.

 

[Macabeus]

There is much in scripture about law, and you come up with the idea to scratch it all for one verse that you say captures everything in scripture about law. There may be people who think you are knowledgeable.

We are told the law is holy, you are trying to take what is Holy and is of God and saying it is all trash and the entire structure of the world as the law is, every bit of it is bondage and a yoke.

In Galatians and Romans it is explained:

Gal_2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Gal_3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Rom_6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

……...

a. No one said the Law was trash. When someone says "we are not under the Law", it means we are not under the old covenant, with it's circumcision, sprinklings, sacrifices, dietary restrictions, civil laws etc.

b. Read what we are writing but Substitute the words Old Covenant for/instead of the word Law. We are not under the Old Covenant, but under the New. But the New Covenant does not abolish or overthrow or cancel out the moral law. RATHER, the New Covenant ESTABLISHES the moral requirements of the moral law.

c. The Law could reveal sin, but it could not cleanse sin, remove sin, or set free from sin. It could only point to God our Saviour. The way that the Law worked in the Old Covenant, is that the people performed the sacrifices in faith, and God granted a FOREBEARANCE on their sins. Have you ever been given a forebearance on a debt. It is not a cancellation of a debt, it is an extension of grace with the condition that the debt be paid later. Under the Old Covenant, God granted a forebearance unto His people, looking forward to the full payment of the debt which was paid by Jesus at the cross. The doctrine of forebearance is found in Roman 3:25

d. The law could not set a person free from sin. IN Romans 8, Paul writes that what the Law was powerless to perform, God performed by condemning sin (which bound us) in the flesh through the sacrifice of Christ Jesus.

e. SO again, we are not under the Old Covenant, but the New. But the New Covenant does not destroy or abolish the Old, rather it fulfills it. Just like, if I owed you a million dollars, and someone else paid it, it would not mean that the debt was disregarded. It would be payed, albeit, not by me. That would be justification. Also, in order to live under the Law, I would be justified by my own actions, for it is only the one who does these things who will live by them. But Grace is much different. In Grace, the righteousness of God is established in "the one who lives will do these things". For it is written Romans 8:3 For what the Law could not do, [b]weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of [c]sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
and galatians 2:I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

 

[Sipsey]

When most speak of “the Law” they refer to the 10 commandments. I present you with another view;

The Bible has 4 different words which are very similar; and all of these words are found early on in the book of Genesis (although some of these words occur only in this particular verse).

God is speaking to Isaac, and He says these words to him:

Genesis 26:4–5 “And I will make your seed to multiply as the stars of the heavens, and I will give to your seed all these lands. And in your Seed will all the nations of the earth be blessed, because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My ordinances, and My Laws.”

This is a very odd place in the Bible to find these particular words. We generally associate them with the Mosaic Law. However, God will not give the Law to Moses for another 500 years, and yet here, we are told that Abraham obeyed God’s voice and kept God’s charge, as well as His commandments, statutes and laws.

Which laws, commandments, and statutes are we talking about and what do these various terms mean?

 

[Macabeus]

When most speak of “the Law” they refer to the 10 commandments. I present you with another view;

The Bible has 4 different words which are very similar; and all of these words are found early on in the book of Genesis (although some of these words occur only in this particular verse).

God is speaking to Isaac, and He says these words to him:

Genesis 26:4–5 “And I will make your seed to multiply as the stars of the heavens, and I will give to your seed all these lands. And in your Seed will all the nations of the earth be blessed, because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My ordinances, and My Laws.”

This is a very odd place in the Bible to find these particular words. We generally associate them with the Mosaic Law. However, God will not give the Law to Moses for another 500 years, and yet here, we are told that Abraham obeyed God’s voice and kept God’s charge, as well as His commandments, statutes and laws.

Which laws, commandments, and statutes are we talking about and what do these various terms mean?

Well, for one thing we know that sacrifices and burnt offerings were instituted long before the Mosaic law. Abel offered sacrifices, as did Noah, Abraham, Jacob, etc. The institution of sacrifices and burnt offerings were probably started in the garden of Eden when God killed two animals to clothe Adam. These were types and shadows of Christ, the antitype of all of them

Also, the book of Romans teaches that even manthat did not have the Mosaic Law, ie the gentiles, had the moral code of the law written on their hearts, Romans 2:14-15, in other words, man knows righteousness and unrighteousness instinctively because God has put it in their hearts and because they are made in the image of God. They have a conscience that tells them right from wrong in many things. Until they damage or sear that conscience.

It is also said that Noah and Enoch walked with God. That means they had a relationship with God, that God spoke to them. God spoke to Abraham by the Word of the Lord coming to Him, various Christophanys (preincarnate manifestations of Jesus), angels, and sometimes through other prophets.

SO people were obeying God's commands before God give a written Law. Abel, Noah, Abraham, and others were obedient to God's command before a written law was given. The Ceremonial code of the Law was temporary and provisionary to preserve the nation of Israel until the Messiah came. NOw that Messiah has come, the ceremonial law is no longer needed

 

[Guojing]

Genesis 26:4–5 “And I will make your seed to multiply as the stars of the heavens, and I will give to your seed all these lands. And in your Seed will all the nations of the earth be blessed, because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My ordinances, and My Laws.”

This is a very odd place in the Bible to find these particular words. We generally associate them with the Mosaic Law. However, God will not give the Law to Moses for another 500 years, and yet here, we are told that Abraham obeyed God’s voice and kept God’s charge, as well as His commandments, statutes and laws.

Which laws, commandments, and statutes are we talking about and what do these various terms mean?

What do you think of the 2 examples where Abraham lied about Sarah being his sister?

 

[PS]

The God of the OT is the same God of the NT. Jesus came to fulfill, which he did. God in three persons, trinity. Jewish God,Gentile God are one in the same.

Absolutely correct. Further to this we read where Jesus said, " "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works." (John 14:10)

Jesus said to the Pharisees "If you had known the Father, you would have known me."

We know that Jesus was with them in the Old Testament and revealed himself to Moses as the I AM. So, knowing Christ's teaching on peace and love do we think the Father would have told the Jews to stone women who were caught in adultery? Or is it possible they were following one of the many false god's we know they worshipped from our reading of the Old Testament.

 

[Sipsey]

What do you think of the 2 examples where Abraham lied about Sarah being his sister?

God is merciful above all else. Fortunately for us, every Biblical hero had human flaws, which helps us to see that the wisdom of God can see beyond our insecurities. Without His mercy and grace no one could be reconciled to Him, now or eternity.

Abram went to Egypt because of a famine. He didn’t trust God and was out of the “geographical “ will of a God (out of fellowship). This led him to concoct a plan to save his own life because he knew his wife’s beauty would cause problems. He did not “ask” God for help in a desperate time, much like us, and without God’s intervention it would have turned out badly.

It’s a great lesson for us really, of how even our failures can be used by God to achieve His ultimate goal.

The key is to learn from our mistakes, to learn the will of God (Bible doctrine), to seek God (pray), to apply that doctrine to our life and problems(trust), and confess- repent (1 Jn. 1:9) when we fail.

God can fix anything!

 

[Guojing]

God is merciful above all else. Fortunately for us, every Biblical hero had human flaws, which helps us to see that the wisdom of God can see beyond our insecurities. Without His mercy and grace no one could be reconciled to Him, now or eternity.

Abram went to Egypt because of a famine. He didn’t trust God and was out of the “geographical “ will of a God (out of fellowship). This led him to concoct a plan to save his own life because he knew his wife’s beauty would cause problems. He did not “ask” God for help in a desperate time, much like us, and without God’s intervention it would have turned out badly.

Okay, so long as you understood that Abraham was ultimately justified because of the grace of God and not because he "follow commandments". Living under grace, sin is not imputed to him.

 

[Sipsey]

Okay, so long as you understood that Abraham was ultimately justified because of the grace of God and not because he "follow commandments". Living under grace, sin is not imputed to him.

He was blessed by his obedience, not saved.

 

[Macabeus]

He was blessed by his obedience, not saved.

Justified by faith alone, but faith is never alone. Faith leads to obedience. Disobedience is the fruit of unbelief. Obedience is the fruit of faith.

So justification by faith alone, but faith works by love

 

[Guojing]

He was blessed by his obedience, not saved.

Was he cursed when he lied then?

 

[Sipsey]

Was he cursed when he lied then?

I think the word “curse” implies that God had lost patience and extreme suffering is to be invoked.

I don’t think Abram was at the point that God would curse him. All sin has consequences, but not all sin causes God to curse one.

The moment someone “repents” of their sin, God can then turn that sin into a blessing, even if the consequences of that sin continues.

 

[Guojing]

I think the word “curse” implies that God had lost patience and extreme suffering is to be invoked.

I don’t think Abram was at the point that God would curse him. All sin has consequences, but not all sin causes God to curse one.

The moment someone “repents” of their sin, God can then turn that sin into a blessing, even if the consequences of that sin continues.

My point is that you cannot have it both ways.

If you claim that Abraham was blessed because of his obedience, then when he disobey, curses will have to follow. That is how the Law works. Deut 28 and Galatians 3 has the scriptures for it. Are you sure you want to be under it?

No, he was blessed because he was under the same unconditional covenant as us, that is by grace. God promised to bless him because God is good.

Even if he "sinned", which he did when he lied, that sin is not imputed to him, because he is not under law, Romans 5:13.

 

[Sipsey]

My point is that you cannot have it both ways.

If you claim that Abraham was blessed because of his obedience, then when he disobey, curses will have to follow. That is how the Law works. Deut 28 and Galatians 3 has the scriptures for it. Are you sure you want to be under it?

No, he was blessed because he was under the same unconditional covenant as us, that is by grace. God promised to bless him because God is good.

Even if he "sinned", which he did when he lied, that sin is not imputed to him, because he is not under law, Romans 5:13.

Are you saying you are under a covenant which requires “nothing” on your part

 

[Sipsey]

My point is that you cannot have it both ways.

If you claim that Abraham was blessed because of his obedience, then when he disobey, curses will have to follow. That is how the Law works. Deut 28 and Galatians 3 has the scriptures for it. Are you sure you want to be under it?

No, he was blessed because he was under the same unconditional covenant as us, that is by grace. God promised to bless him because God is good.

Even if he "sinned", which he did when he lied, that sin is not imputed to him, because he is not under law, Romans 5:13.

In the broadest of the term “curse,” we are all cursed because of Adams sin, not counting our own. So in a sense we start out in life cursed.

Since Christ became a curse for us, we indeed are not now cursed, but rather “chastised”, which can lead one to believe they are cursed, if repentance is too slow.

Abraham “believed” God and those of us who do likewise avoid being cursed. But what about those that have, and will, reject God and His offer of a Savior?