Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
No wonder you're wondering because acripture says it clear that we have to obey His commands which contradicts your beliefs.

...We know that we have come to know him IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but DOES NOT DOWHAT HE COMMANDS is A LIAR, and THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6
Try again.....you do not obey his commandments....and that is what you cannot get through your head....in order for your commandment keeping drivel to SAVE YOU you must KEEP every COMMANDMENT 24/7/365 from your birth to your death....HAVE you done this...NO....you haven't and then YOU flat deny truth...

Therefore we conclude that a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH without the deeds/works of the LAW <--commandment KEEPING

The RIGHTEOUSNESS of CHRIST is IMPUTED by FAITH

and the LAW/COMMANDMENTS were GIVEN to SHUT the mouth of the entire world and DEEM OUR GUILT....NO MAN other tan JESUS has kept or will KEEP the COMMANDMENTS/LAW of GOD.......

Wake up and sell the roses man....YOU are a law breaker as we all are and NONE of us keep the commandments of God perfectly which deems us GUILTY

AND that is what YOU cannot seem to grasp
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
No one is saying that we don't need to obey God's commands. We cannot fully obey His commands, because we are still sinful humans who fall short of His glory.

Good works naturally follow being saved. BUT those works are not to be done with the sole purpose of gaining, keeping and maintaining salvation..
AMEN BLUE....so simple a 5 year old can understand it.........exactly why JESUS said, "Suffer the little children to come unto me"

The LAW was given to deem guilt and point to the only cure....FAITH into the WORK of CHRIST......<---Christ's righteousness IMPUTED by FAITH and HIS SHED BLOOD covering our sin and OUR life being HID within HIS............

While yet being sinners that have been redeemed GOD can pass right over us because when he looks at us HE SEES the blood and righteousness of HIS SON WITHOUT the deeds/works of the law.......

It is NOT that difficult to understand....RELIGION BLINDS MEN to this absolute truth
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,328
6,696
113
No wonder you're wondering because acripture says it clear that we have to obey His commands which contradicts your beliefs.

...We know that we have come to know him IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but DOES NOT DOWHAT HE COMMANDS is A LIAR, and THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6
all you law-lovers love to point to this 1 piece of Scripture , yet you all ignore what the same man said in this very same letter- the commands are to believe in the name of the Son and love one another ( chapter 3 ).

you really need to stop trying to break the Bible into pieces and then build theology around the pieces, it is dis-honest.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
all you law-lovers love to point to this 1 piece of Scripture , yet you all ignore what the same man said in this very same letter- the commands are to believe in the name of the Son and love one another ( chapter 3 ).

you really need to stop trying to break the Bible into pieces and then build theology around the pieces, it is dis-honest.
AMEN..........I have never in my life seen the type of dishonesty that I have seen in here by those that claim JESUS...........My lost neighbors are more honest than some.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
I got a few red x's yesterday when I made a post that set forth the truth that the bible deems guilt by association........and I want to address this with a few points.......

a. Korah <------Moses said everybody on his side that thinks he is right go stand with him..............they ALL went down into the PIT alive.....

b. All the inhabitants of Jericho, INCLUDING the children were cut down to a MAN except one WHORE....HER whole FAMILY was spared because of what SHE had done in faith WHICH INCLUDED LYING about the 2 spies she had HIDDEN.

c. God in the O.T. visiting the INIQUITY of the FATHER's unto the 2nd and 3rd generation


These are just three examples of MANY found throughout scripture.......the bible does indeed prove that GUILT by association is a biblical principle....and in the case of Rahab........said association SAVED her entire FAMILY..........it goes both ways........
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,328
6,696
113
AMEN..........I have never in my life seen the type of dishonesty that I have seen in here by those that claim JESUS...........My lost neighbors are more honest than some.....
it is very sad to see the low regard that some have for truth and honesty. especially coming from those who CLAIM to be Christ followers .

but, hey, gotta defend their religions above everything else , including truth and honesty.
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
As I read this morning I see the same old lie spewed by the salvation losers and or maintainers......that those who believe in eternal security believe that we can live any way we want....HAHAHHAHAH the same old straw man argument.......oblivious to the fact that the bible speaks to a WAY of life and GOD whips and chastens disobedient sons and daughters....he does not cast them away nor do they lose salvation.....
...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6-7

...For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, WHO CHANGE THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and DENY Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. Jude 1:4

WHO ARE THE IMMORALS?

Clue; they call the obedient to God's moral law as works salvationists and sinless perfectionists and boldly declare themselves as sinners. They DENY OUR Lord Jesus by their actions and they love to talk rather than to WALK the TALK.

...They claim to know God, but BY THEIR ACTIONS THEY DENY HIM. They are detestable, DISOBEDIENT and unfit for doing anything good. Titus 1:16

...Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but WITH ACTIONS AND IN TRUTH. 1 John 3:18

...For the kingdom of God is NOT A MATTER OF TALK but of POWER. 1 Corinthians 4:20

...As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD. James 2:26 ...NO POWER.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
it is very sad to see the low regard that some have for truth and honesty. especially coming from those who CLAIM to be Christ followers .

but, hey, gotta defend their religions above everything else , including truth and honesty.
I agree....guilt by association...........you know....I rarely give negative remarks in the form of checks and x's even if I do not agree....and I for sure do not do it just because I do not like the person.....the truth...I hate no one on this site....I absolutely cannot stand some of the things they stand for, especially the false dogmas that I know are not biblical based upon my 35 to 40 years of study....which I FULLY UNDERSTAND that it does not necessarily make me correct......and I am open to the word if ONE can show me from SCRIPTURES.....at the same TIME I can read and our salvation is eternal, based upon Christ, his faith, his promises, his righteousness, his sealing etc.....I can also read that NONE are GOOD, and ALL are sinning <--present active indicative form of the verb and even the MOST righteous men of the bible struggled with SINS and or testify toward the end of their life that they were the NUMBER ONE CHIEF SINNER among men....

While ON the earth with SAVED, IMMERSED DISCIPLES AND APOSTLES JESUS said, "THERE are NONE GOOD but GOD"

Some of these people on CC peddle that they are indeed GOOD, LAW abiding, Commandment KEEPING UBER Christians that HELP JESUS secure and KEEP their salvation.....and I know at the end of the day it is a load of dung in a spreader being sprayed all over the field.......!
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
I agree....guilt by association...........you know....I rarely give negative remarks in the form of checks and x's even if I do not agree....and I for sure do not do it just because I do not like the person.....the truth...I hate no one on this site....I absolutely cannot stand some of the things they stand for, especially the false dogmas that I know are not biblical based upon my 35 to 40 years of study....which I FULLY UNDERSTAND that it does not necessarily make me correct......and I am open to the word if ONE can show me from SCRIPTURES.....at the same TIME I can read and our salvation is eternal, based upon Christ, his faith, his promises, his righteousness, his sealing etc.....I can also read that NONE are GOOD, and ALL are sinning <--present active indicative form of the verb and even the MOST righteous men of the bible struggled with SINS and or testify toward the end of their life that they were the NUMBER ONE CHIEF SINNER among men....

While ON the earth with SAVED, IMMERSED DISCIPLES AND APOSTLES JESUS said, "THERE are NONE GOOD but GOD"

Some of these people on CC peddle that they are indeed GOOD, LAW abiding, Commandment KEEPING UBER Christians that HELP JESUS secure and KEEP their salvation.....and I know at the end of the day it is a load of dung in a spreader being sprayed all over the field.......!
The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.

These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)

...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13

...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2

How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?

We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.

Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?

..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Matthew 24:10‭-‬14‭, ‬24

...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 2 Corinthians 11:13‭-‬15

And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6‭-‬7

...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”... Genesis 3:1‭-‬19

Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.

The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God. If they were deceived, why can't you?

Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why refuse to take heed of them?

So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
WOW......THE POPE and the GRAND IMAM of al-Azhar have signed a declaration of fraternity calling for peace between nations, religions and races in front of a global audience of religious leaders from Christianity, Islam, Judaism and other religious faiths........

WOW......I have believed for some time the pope will be the false prophet........

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/...ncis-uae-grand-imam-declaration-of-peace.html
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
WOW......THE POPE and the GRAND IMAM of al-Azhar have signed a declaration of fraternity calling for peace between nations, religions and races in front of a global audience of religious leaders from Christianity, Islam, Judaism and other religious faiths........

WOW......I have believed for some time the pope will be the false prophet........

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/...ncis-uae-grand-imam-declaration-of-peace.html
This will be on FOX news in like 3 to 5 minutes....calling it historic.....first to visit the Arabian peninsula............big deal......
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.

These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)

...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13

...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2

How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?

We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.

Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?

..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Matthew 24:10‭-‬14‭, ‬24

...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 2 Corinthians 11:13‭-‬15

And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6‭-‬7

...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”... Genesis 3:1‭-‬19

Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.

The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God. If they were deceived, why can't you?

Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why refuse to take heed of them?

So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?
Your what if's and incessant cutting and pasting of the same drivel over and over again in the same style and layout as Seoche or his buddy does nothing for your case.....make no mistake...YOU are one of the deceivers....
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
Try again.....you do not obey his commandments....and that is what you cannot get through your head....in order for your commandment keeping drivel to SAVE YOU you must KEEP every COMMANDMENT 24/7/365 from your birth to your death....HAVE you done this...NO....you haven't and then YOU flat deny truth...

Therefore we conclude that a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH without the deeds/works of the LAW <--commandment KEEPING

The RIGHTEOUSNESS of CHRIST is IMPUTED by FAITH

and the LAW/COMMANDMENTS were GIVEN to SHUT the mouth of the entire world and DEEM OUR GUILT....NO MAN other tan JESUS has kept or will KEEP the COMMANDMENTS/LAW of GOD.......

Wake up and sell the roses man....YOU are a law breaker as we all are and NONE of us keep the commandments of God perfectly which deems us GUILTY

AND that is what YOU cannot seem to grasp
^No chapter and verse on here, DOESNT COUNT! :D Sorry i had to say it, couldnt resist.
WOW......THE POPE and the GRAND IMAM of al-Azhar have signed a declaration of fraternity calling for peace between nations, religions and races in front of a global audience of religious leaders from Christianity, Islam, Judaism and other religious faiths........

WOW......I have believed for some time the pope will be the false prophet........

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/...ncis-uae-grand-imam-declaration-of-peace.html
Gathering of the heretics.

I would like to know which FAKE apostate christian leaders went to that wicked meetings. This is some one world stuff! "PEACE PEACE" then SUDDEN DESTRUCTION it says in the Bible.
Now I realize that also doesnt count since I didnt post no chapter and verse, but NONETHELESS! :D (Sorry couldnt stop myself again)
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
^No chapter and verse on here, DOESNT COUNT! :D Sorry i had to say it, couldnt resist.

Gathering of the heretics.

I would like to know which FAKE apostate christian leaders went to that wicked meetings. This is some one world stuff! "PEACE PEACE" then SUDDEN DESTRUCTION it says in the Bible.
Now I realize that also doesnt count since I didnt post no chapter and verse, but NONETHELESS! :D (Sorry couldnt stop myself again)
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA yeah NO doubt..........can you imagine the idiocy of saying we do not post scripture because we leave off book, chapter and verse.......
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA yeah NO doubt..........can you imagine the idiocy of saying we do not post scripture because we leave off book, chapter and verse.......
The Torah scrolls TO THIS DAY in the synagogues do not contain verse numbers!

They are a new innovation! A good innovation in my opinion, helps us NAVIGATE faster, but nonetheless, MAN MADE not inspired, imo!

Bro can you tell me where in the Bible are "modern flight, modern weapons, nuclear war, genetics " i asked this in the other thread but its not a popular one so maybe you wont return to it so I will ask here.

Would be important to find this information, helps in defending my view that Revelation 19 is the SECOND COMING, which many preterists discount because it says captains on -> HORSES <- not tanks!
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
A good example of the EXCESS of your teaching is that DC and someone else used the PARABLE OF THE PRODIGAL SON to teach that someone COULD DIE IN A ASOTOS (GREEK), profligate, dissolute lifestyle and be saved.

Once a son always a son, they say...
DC is absolutely right.

If not, then the gospel is indeed a gospel of works for salvation and not a gift at all.

Yes, I sin. Yes you sin. But do we live in unrestrained, habitual sin. NO.
If you sin every day (and you do) then it is indeed habitual.

Does God grade on a curve? How many sins attributed to a person will damn them?

Just one.

What is sin? Sin is transgression of the Law. Break one, and you've broken them all.

So, if you sin once a day, you're as guilty as breaking the whole Law.

Thank Jesus that His blood cleansed us from all sin.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA yeah NO doubt..........can you imagine the idiocy of saying we do not post scripture because we leave off book, chapter and verse.......
No more crazy than some of the stuff I read on here! :LOL:
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
The Torah scrolls TO THIS DAY in the synagogues do not contain verse numbers!

They are a new innovation! A good innovation in my opinion, helps us NAVIGATE faster, but nonetheless, MAN MADE not inspired, imo!

Bro can you tell me where in the Bible are "modern flight, modern weapons, nuclear war, genetics " i asked this in the other thread but its not a popular one so maybe you wont return to it so I will ask here.

Would be important to find this information, helps in defending my view that Revelation 19 is the SECOND COMING, which many preterists discount because it says captains on -> HORSES <- not tanks!
I think Zechariah 14:12 has a pretty good description of people getting hit with a nuclear blast.