John 3:16

[7seasrekeyed]

"Many" is an accurate word.
Cherry picking? John chapter 3 begins at verse 1 and continues on to verse 16, etc. Immediately following the comment in John 3:16 we see Jesus is present as his disciples perform water baptisms. Interesting.

I wonder why He didn't tell the disciples they were doing something that was unnecessary.

John 3:22-23
"After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized."

yes, cherry picking

there is not one verse of scripture where Jesus said we should be baptized

I wonder why you wish to make a case for an addendum to salvation?

 

[Hevosmies]

yes, cherry picking

there is not one verse of scripture where Jesus said we should be baptized

I wonder why you wish to make a case for an addendum to salvation?

I still want to know WHO has not gotten baptized, SERIOUSLY?

Name me one baptist or pentecostal or any denomination that believes in believer's baptism that HAS NOT BEEN water baptized?

I dont know ANY!

 

[Wansvic]

Hi Wansvic, that doesn't appear to be the case, unless it's possible that those in v22 knew Jesus even though He makes it clear to us that He never knew them

Matt 7:21-24​

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

This, of course, begs the question, what does Jesus mean what He said, "I NEVER knew you"?

Thanks!

~Deut

John 6​

28 Then said they unto Him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? ​

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.​

.​

My point was in response to a comment stating the God's will was that one need only believe in Jesus. The people depicted in Matt 7:21-24 clearly knew Jesus and were operating in the gifts. However, even so, Jesus did NOT KNOW them.
Clearly something was missing.

 

[Wansvic]

We are saved the moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31 etc..). Obedience which follows is WORKS and we are saved by grace through faith, NOT WORKS (Ephesians 2:8,9).

In regards to Matthew 7:21-23, I'll never forget, prior to my conversion several years ago, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I read Matthew 7:22 and thought to myself, wow! These many people accomplished all of that, "prophesied in His name, cast out demons, and did many wonderful works" but that still was not "good enough?" Then I thought to myself at that time, how am I going to "top that" and be considered "good enough" to obtain eternal life? Such is the mindset of someone who believes that salvation is by works.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was stained with sin. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts.

Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many "alleged" wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation by works.

As we read on in Matthew 7:24-27, we find two different foundations with two different results, and not salvation by works, as works-salvationists would suppose. Each house has a different material upon which its foundation is laid, and each house has a different final outcome. One house is built by a wise man upon a rock and it stands. The other is built by a foolish man upon the sand and it collapses.

Those deceived by their own self-righteousness in Matthew 7:22-23 were "outwardly" doing all the things that the righteous would do yet they did not truly know Christ (had no personal relationship with Christ) which stemmed from not truly believing in Him. The rock the wise man builds upon is true righteousness found in Jesus Christ alone. The sand the foolish man builds upon is self-righteousness.

*Only those who truly believe in Him are wise and hear the words of Jesus and properly act on them. *The foolish man twists the words of Jesus and acts on their own self-righteous works system and calls that acting on the words of Jesus.

There is a big difference in acting in obedience to what is commanded in the Word and trying to work one's way into heaven.
The Word clearly shows that repentance, water baptism and Holy Ghost baptism are necessary.

 

[John146]

My point was in response to a comment stating the God's will was that one need only believe in Jesus. The people depicted in Matt 7:21-24 clearly knew Jesus and were operating in the gifts. However, even so, Jesus did NOT KNOW them.
Clearly something was missing.

Can you show me your view using Scripture from Paul's writings to the church, the body of Christ? Thanks.

 

[Wansvic]

no, He did not

please provide the scripture where Jesus commanded baptism. I won't hold my breath

hint: John 3: 5 is not the proof text you seek

yes, cherry picking

there is not one verse of scripture where Jesus said we should be baptized

I wonder why you wish to make a case for an addendum to salvation?

Jesus clearly commanded disciples to teach and baptize people in all nations.
Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[Wansvic]

Can you show me your view using Scripture from Paul's writings to the church, the body of Christ? Thanks.

Paul’s Epistles - Spirit and water baptism (Paul’s own water baptism - Acts 22:16)

(Rom 6:3-5, 1 Cor 1:15-16, 1 Cor 12:13, Gal 3:27, Eph 4:4-5, Col 2:12, Titus 3:5-6, Heb 4:1-2)

Rom 6:3-5 (Water Baptism) “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? (Where blood is applied?) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:”

1 Cor 1:15-16 (Water Baptism) “Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.”

1 Cor 12:13 (Water and Spirit Baptism) “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”

Gal 3:2 (Spirit Baptism) “This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?”

Gal 3:27 (Water Baptism) “For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”

Eph 4:4-5 (One Spirit, one water baptism) “There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism,”

Col 2:12 (Water Baptism) “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”

Titus 3:5-6 (Water and Spirit Baptism) “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;”

Heb 4:1-2 “Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.”

 

[Wansvic]

uh oh

then why didn't everyone just stop and offer up a lamb for forgiveness of sins?

THE Lamb of God was being offered up...NOT Old Testament

how little you understand what actually happened

the ENTIRE Bible is all about Jesus from beginning to end...not about how we behave or what is required

there is but one thing required and while on the subject, PLENTY of people go ahead and get baptized then act like the devil

I've seen it. better not to get baptized and thereby condemn yourself if you are not willing to actually follow your Savior

The bottom line is the bible clearly records everyone is to repent, be water and Holy Ghost baptized.

 

[Wansvic]

In the 4 gospels, sometimes Jesus emphasise the law, other times he emphasised grace. U have to use the right stories

Being water baptized has nothing to do with the Old Testament law. John the Baptist's ministry was to prepare the way of the Messiah and introduce the New Testament water baptism.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I still want to know WHO has not gotten baptized, SERIOUSLY?

Name me one baptist or pentecostal or any denomination that believes in believer's baptism that HAS NOT BEEN water baptized?

I dont know ANY!

well that's the thing, eh?

we get these threads in here where people coming in want to make a case as if no one but them believes in the believer's baptism

and the clincher is they seem to always state if you are not baptized you are not saved and yet the Bible does not say that

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Jesus clearly commanded disciples to teach and baptize people in all nations.
Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

who was Jesus talking to?

do you personally or have you personally gone into all the world and baptized people ?

have you taught all nations?

no verse will be provided that instructs a Christian to be baptized as part of salvation and even in Matthew 28 above, Jesus does not command it

I believe in the believers' baptism. we identify with Jesus and we openly confess Him

you are saying something different

 

[KnowMe]

Being water baptized has nothing to do with the Old Testament law. John the Baptist's ministry was to prepare the way of the Messiah and introduce the New Testament water baptism.

Hmm I’ve wondered about that as well, in thinking of what Moses did with the people with blood which technically is water, could people have known of a type of baptism because many came out to John I assume there could of been some understanding of what a baptism meant. JMO

 

[cdmeyer]

Where in the bible does Jesus specifically says that you must be baptized in water as part of the process of salvation? Interestingly, it says in the bible that Jesus himself baptized no one. Water baptism is a symbolic act of acknowledgement of one becoming a new creation in Christ. The act itself has no bearing on one's salvation but it does say in the bible that those that are born again will be baptized with fire and the Holy Spirit. There is no mention of water but rather fire.

Tourist, since Jesus was baptized and he told everyone else to also, Mark 16:16, should we not follow his example and teaching, or is it up us to decide the terms of entrance into Heaven?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

The bottom line is the bible clearly records everyone is to repent, be water and Holy Ghost baptized.

no that is not the bottom line

John 3:16 is

people with a legalistic leaning tend to ADD to what God says is the gold standard

the Bible does not command anyone to be Holy Spirit baptized either

note that there were saved people who had not received that and yet they were saved

well according to the actual Apostles anyways

believe in the Lord Jesus Christ is the ONE criteria for salvation. and that is not the empty word confession you are trying to paint folks with

when people harp on all the things we have to do to be saved, they don't get it. they just do not get it.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Hmm I’ve wondered about that as well, in thinking of what Moses did with the people with blood which technically is water, could people have known of a type of baptism because many came out to John I assume there could of been some understanding of what a baptism meant. JMO

hmmm

well not really

blood consists of:

The liquid part, called plasma, is made of water, salts, and protein. Over half of your blood is plasma. The solid part of your blood contains red blood cells, white blood cells, and platelets. Red blood cells (RBC) deliver oxygen from your lungs to your tissues and organs.

appears even the water part is not only water

 

[cdmeyer]

That was already covered in my response. But the water of baptism does NOT save anyone. That is a false Gospel.

No, what you are spewing is a false gospel. However, no surprise, Jesus said the last days would be this way...

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Tourist, since Jesus was baptized and he told everyone else to also, Mark 16:16, should we not follow his example and teaching, or is it up us to decide the terms of entrance into Heaven?

Jesus was instructing His disciples

do you do all that Jesus told them to do? no you haven't

so why pick the part that really is easy to do

 

[7seasrekeyed]

No, what you are spewing is a false gospel. However, no surprise, Jesus said the last days would be this way...

oh brother

unbelievable. and you just got here LOL!

anyone else notice how all these 'newer' members are saying the same thing?

they all seem to belong to the same set of teachings at any rate

 

[KnowMe]

hmmm

well not really

blood consists of:

The liquid part, called plasma, is made of water, salts, and protein. Over half of your blood is plasma. The solid part of your blood contains red blood cells, white blood cells, and platelets. Red blood cells (RBC) deliver oxygen from your lungs to your tissues and organs.

appears even the water part is not only water

Thanks on the info, it appears as well blood is 92% water is quite a bit. is there water on earth with out some kind of substance within it?

 

[KnowMe]

Not sure where you got plasma as half but most say 8% blood plasma proteins 92% Water and trace elements.