John 3:16

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Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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#1
Many profess that one need only believe in Jesus to receive everlasting life and quote the following scripture as evidence: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:16

The following scriptures prove that there is more to believing than a mental acknowledgment of Jesus as the Messiah:
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” Matt 7:21
“For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.” Matt 12:50

Interestingly, using the same numeric chapter and verse as John 3:16 in the other three gospels, components of the salvation plan presented on the Day of Pentecost are seen and give complete perspective to John 3:16:

Matthew 3:16: Jesus left mankind an example to follow:

“ And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:”

Mark 3:16: A name change must take place. Everyone must take on the name of the bridegroom in water baptism. This is clearly seen in Acts 19:1-6, and conveyed by Peter on the Day of Pentecost:

“And Simon he surnamed Peter;”

Luke 3:16: John the Baptist who introduced the New Testament practice of water baptism declared that Jesus was coming and would introduce another baptism as well that would involve the Holy Ghost along with fire:

“John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:” Luke 3:16

Conclusion: Upon believing that Jesus is the Messiah the Word tells us to search out the faith that was originally delivered to the disciples. (Jude 3) Instructions were first delivered in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost: Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38

Obedience to the above instruction is surely the will of the Father.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
8,694
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#2
Obedience to the above instruction is surely the will of the Father.
Jesus told us exactly what is the will of the Father: And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:40). As we can see, Christ said nothing about water baptism in this verse.

So if you are claiming that no one can be saved without water baptism, then you are not correctly presenting the Gospel.

At the same time, those who believe must be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Ghost.
 

cdmeyer

New member
Jan 29, 2019
17
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Texas
#3
Jesus told us exactly what is the will of the Father: And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:40). As we can see, Christ said nothing about water baptism in this verse.

So if you are claiming that no one can be saved without water baptism, then you are not correctly presenting the Gospel.

At the same time, those who believe must be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Ghost.
I believe you are the one not correctly presenting the gospel, because if someone believes in someone they will do what that person says. Since Jesus commanded baptism, there you go.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#4
I believe you are the one not correctly presenting the gospel, because if someone believes in someone they will do what that person says. Since Jesus commanded baptism, there you go.
Where in the bible does Jesus specifically says that you must be baptized in water as part of the process of salvation? Interestingly, it says in the bible that Jesus himself baptized no one. Water baptism is a symbolic act of acknowledgement of one becoming a new creation in Christ. The act itself has no bearing on one's salvation but it does say in the bible that those that are born again will be baptized with fire and the Holy Spirit. There is no mention of water but rather fire.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
1,108
389
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#5
Where in the bible does Jesus specifically says that you must be baptized in water as part of the process of salvation? Interestingly, it says in the bible that Jesus himself baptized no one. Water baptism is a symbolic act of acknowledgement of one becoming a new creation in Christ. The act itself has no bearing on one's salvation but it does say in the bible that those that are born again will be baptized with fire and the Holy Spirit. There is no mention of water but rather fire.
Matt 3:15-16
And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Matt 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

John 3:3, 5
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Mark 16:16-17
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Matt 21:25
The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
1,108
389
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#6
Jesus told us exactly what is the will of the Father: And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:40). As we can see, Christ said nothing about water baptism in this verse.

So if you are claiming that no one can be saved without water baptism, then you are not correctly presenting the Gospel.

At the same time, those who believe must be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Ghost.
Everlasting life is available to those who believe in Jesus and are obedience to His commands.
The people depicted in the following scripture were certainly missing something because there is no doubt they knew Jesus yet heaven was not to be their everlasting home:
Matt 7:21-24
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that DOETH the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and DOETH them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
1,108
389
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#7
Where in the bible does Jesus specifically says that you must be baptized in water as part of the process of salvation? Interestingly, it says in the bible that Jesus himself baptized no one. Water baptism is a symbolic act of acknowledgement of one becoming a new creation in Christ. The act itself has no bearing on one's salvation but it does say in the bible that those that are born again will be baptized with fire and the Holy Spirit. There is no mention of water but rather fire.
If it had been a symbolic act there would have been no need for those baptized by John to be re-baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. (Acts 19)
Please supply scripture indicating water baptism is a symbolic act.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#8
If it had been a symbolic act there would have been no need for those baptized by John to be re-baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. (Acts 19)
Please supply scripture indicating water baptism is a symbolic act.
1 Peter 3:21
21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

If water baptism is not essential for salvation than it must be a symbolic act because it is certainly not a saving act.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#9
Everlasting life is available to those who believe in Jesus and are obedience to His commands.
Everlasting life is A GIFT of God's grace, not a reward earned for obedience.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom 6:23 and many other Scriptures).

It is quite evident that you are promoting a False Gospel.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
8,694
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#10
I believe you are the one not correctly presenting the gospel, because if someone believes in someone they will do what that person says. Since Jesus commanded baptism, there you go.
That was already covered in my response. But the water of baptism does NOT save anyone. That is a false Gospel.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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#11
The people depicted in the following scripture were certainly missing something because there is no doubt they knew Jesus yet heaven was not to be their everlasting home
Hi Wansvic, that doesn't appear to be the case, unless it's possible that those in v22 knew Jesus even though He makes it clear to us that He never knew them :unsure:

Matt 7:21-24
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

This, of course, begs the question, what does Jesus mean what He said, "I NEVER knew you"?

Thanks!

~Deut

John 6
28 Then said they unto Him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.
.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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#12
I should have added this verse in for your consideration to post #11 above, but here it is now.

John 17
3 This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

~Deut
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#13
Everlasting life is available to those who believe in Jesus and are obedience to His commands.
The people depicted in the following scripture were certainly missing something because there is no doubt they knew Jesus yet heaven was not to be their everlasting home:
Matt 7:21-24
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that DOETH the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and DOETH them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
We are saved the moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31 etc..). Obedience which follows is WORKS and we are saved by grace through faith, NOT WORKS (Ephesians 2:8,9).

In regards to Matthew 7:21-23, I'll never forget, prior to my conversion several years ago, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I read Matthew 7:22 and thought to myself, wow! These many people accomplished all of that, "prophesied in His name, cast out demons, and did many wonderful works" but that still was not "good enough?" Then I thought to myself at that time, how am I going to "top that" and be considered "good enough" to obtain eternal life? Such is the mindset of someone who believes that salvation is by works.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was stained with sin. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts.

Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many "alleged" wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation by works.

As we read on in Matthew 7:24-27, we find two different foundations with two different results, and not salvation by works, as works-salvationists would suppose. Each house has a different material upon which its foundation is laid, and each house has a different final outcome. One house is built by a wise man upon a rock and it stands. The other is built by a foolish man upon the sand and it collapses.

Those deceived by their own self-righteousness in Matthew 7:22-23 were "outwardly" doing all the things that the righteous would do yet they did not truly know Christ (had no personal relationship with Christ) which stemmed from not truly believing in Him. The rock the wise man builds upon is true righteousness found in Jesus Christ alone. The sand the foolish man builds upon is self-righteousness.

*Only those who truly believe in Him are wise and hear the words of Jesus and properly act on them. *The foolish man twists the words of Jesus and acts on their own self-righteous works system and calls that acting on the words of Jesus.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
17,845
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#14
Conclusion: Upon believing that Jesus is the Messiah the Word tells us to search out the faith that was originally delivered to the disciples. (Jude 3) Instructions were first delivered in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost: Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38

Obedience to the above instruction is surely the will of the Father.
Be sure to go back and read post #29 from the link below:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/water-baptism-what-does-gods-word-say.181636/page-2
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
40,744
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#15
Again the work, power, sacrifice, blood, ministry and faith of JESUS is devalued and watered down to the point that a man must help this weak, ineffectual, lying god that cannot keep his promise to do what he promised to do......it must be tragic to serve such an inept god not found in the bible.....

It pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
23,322
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#16
Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
(Acts 11:16)
In Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through your faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
(Colossians 2:11-12)

this doesn't sound to me like something done by human hands.. did God raise me out of the H2O ? a pastor did, with his human hands, he immersed me in H2O too.

but it was God Himself who immersed me into His own name
 
K

KnowMe

Guest
#17
What’s up with John 4:1-3
1When Jesus realized that the Pharisees were aware that He was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John
2(although it was not Jesus who baptized, but His disciples),
3He left Judea and returned to Galilee.

I have wondered about this passage about water baptism, it appears Jesus approved of it for either salvation or symbolic either way He allowed it and it seems He was present while His disciples baptized.
 

KD

Member
Nov 20, 2018
74
57
18
#18
Matt 3:15-16
And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Matt 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

John 3:3, 5
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Mark 16:16-17
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Matt 21:25
The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?

I don’t think any of these version imply that baptism is a requirement for salvation.


Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God....this water birth is when we our born out of our mothers womb i.e after the water breaks. This was the reply to Nicodemus asking can an old man return to his mother’s womb.

What about the thief on the cross? Had he been baptized? Was he justified by his faith?
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
3,529
532
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#19
So everyone here believes all you need do is acknowledge that Jesus is the savior and your saved? :unsure::unsure::unsure::unsure: