Not By Works

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GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
The tax collectors and prostitutes enter because they BELIEVED HIM..........

It pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe <----FAITH is what saves a man..........
What KEEPS you saved?
Disobedience?
Slandering the name of the Holy Spirit?
You come close to blasphemy with your teachings.

Romans 1:5
5through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name’s sake,6among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;


Why am I able to back up what I say with scripture
and you are not???
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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What KEEPS you saved?
Disobedience?
Slandering the name of the Holy Spirit?
You come close to blasphemy with your teachings.

Romans 1:5
5through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name’s sake,6among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;


Why am I able to back up what I say with scripture
and you are not???
You obviously do not know what the word blasphemy means.....and what keeps me saved is CHRIST.....unlike YOU, I actually trust him and believe his word, promises, and inspired word......
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
I actually am in agreement with you that if a person is truly saved it is eternal and they are kept by the power of God. But you seem to think such a person can die wallowing in pig filth like a prodigal and still be saved. I say that the bible teaches that God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness, so sons will deny ungodliness and stop wallowing in pig filth like a prodigal, if not sooner, at least later.

AND don't forget, that there is NO BASIS for saying that the prodigal (who represents publicans and sinners coming to Jesus) was saved BEFORE he/they came to Jesus. The context of the passage does not support that, and the sons in Matthew 21:28-32 were not saved either. The use of the word "son" in a parable is not equal to born again, as has been clearly demonstrated.

That's why you won't answer the million dollar question

I don't want to gang up on you, so I will step out. If you want to ever answer a simple question, let me know.

When I said that you will not defend your position when pressed, I was correct, and you have demonstrated it better than anyone else ever could.
I believe you're getting the Prodigal Son mixed up with the Parable of the Two Sons.
VERY DIFFERENT stories....

Mathew 21:28......... The Two Sons
Luke 15:11......... The Prodigal Son
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
You obviously do not know what the word blasphemy means.....and what keeps me saved is CHRIST.....unlike YOU, I actually trust him and believe his word, promises, and inspired word......
You better start learning what His Word IS
What He promised
and What He expects from you.

Mathew 25:40
40“The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’

These were those going to heaven.


Mathew 25:45-46

45“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46“These will go away into eternal punishment,,,,"

These are those that went to eternal punishment.

Again, if you notice, Jesus did not mention being born again....
He just spoke about WHO DID and WHO DID NOT DO.


It would behoove you to understand why this is so.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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You better start learning what His Word IS
What He promised
and What He expects from you.

Mathew 25:40
40“The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’

These were those going to heaven.


Mathew 25:45-46
45“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46“These will go away into eternal punishment,,,,"

These are those that went to eternal punishment.

Again, if you notice, Jesus did not mention being born again....
He just spoke about WHO DID and WHO DID NOT DO.


It would behoove you to understand why this is so.
Blah blah blah......it would behoove you to actually trust Jesus and then believe he actually saves you and will never leave you or forsake you...............this 50/50 God and you salvation = false gospel
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
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@TruthTalk
you've conveniently disappeared?
Please answer the following from my ignored post to you no. 83,632.
Thanks.
I have nothing left to say that has not already been said, good bye.
1 Thessalonians 4:11
and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you,

 
Dec 12, 2013
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Give me the post number where you posted about the irrevocable gifts and calling....
Thanks.
You can read and have no problem finding posts.......by the way....I got an interesting Im's behind the scenes....won't say who out of respect....but it was obviously a call for help to tag up on me.............this person NEVER Im's me and always defends you
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
@mailmandan

If you want to start a thread on 2 peter 2:20-22 I'd be very happy to discuss it with you.
We've been through it before and what you do is post Greek which does NOT help any.
It's simple and direct and required no extra knowledge that the normal person does not have.

I don't get replies on here so it's useless to be here.
@UnderGrace never answered my post no. 83,487.
@TruthTalk never answered my post no. 83,503, the one where I listed 14 verses.

I guess they're not able to...or they'd answer.

See you around MMD!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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HAHHAHAH God inspired the N.T. in GREEK....but.......it never helps....never helps to SUPPORT FALSE DOCTRINE is exactly right....and why many refuse to acknowledge it....
 
Dec 27, 2018
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The tax collectors and prostitutes enter because they BELIEVED HIM..........

It pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe <----FAITH is what saves a man..........
Well, that is the first son. I asked about the second son. But we can cover the first son firsr

You seem to have begun with the assumption in the other threads that the prodigal was a saved person because he was called a son. But now you say the first son is the tax collectors and prostitutes that believed and were saved. But they were not saved until they believed. Same with the prodigal. The prodigal represents tax collectors and sinners, (see Luke 15:1-3) who were not saved until they came to Jesus.

The invitation to work in the vineyard was an invitation to receive the Gospel, was it not? Is that not what the context indicates, ie verse 31-32? so the call went out before either son was saved. And as you said, they entered the way of salvation by believing and were saved. SO the son in this parable does not begin with the starting point of being a born again child of God. ANd the sons in Luke 15 don't either. They represent publicans and sinners, who had lived riotous lives and repented, and on the other hand scribes and Pharisees who rejected the Gospel. SO it is the premise of your argument, not the conclusion that I disagreed with

Now to the second son. Not only was the second son not saved, he never got saved (at least the text doesn't say he ever obeyed his father). The second son represents the UNBELIEVING Chief priests and Pharisees.

SO neither son had a starting point of being saved. Both groups were lost, both heard the Gospel, one group obeyed the Gospel, the other group didn't.

Same thing with the parable of the prodigal son

So you were beginning with a false premise, ie the sons in luke 15 and Matthew 21 represent saved people. I did not disagree with your conclusion. I disagreed with your premise. The reason I did so, was because it is very dangerous to try to make the Bible say what we want it to say instead of letting it interpret itself. Also, it is very dangerous to confuse applications for a correct interpretation. I have no problem with your application, Christians can become prodigals and return to the Lord. I was a prodigal for over ten years, and I did things that would shock most people. But I did not die in that state, because GOD'S Grace brought me back

...and it is very dangerous to say that a son is still a son even though he lives a dissolute lifestyle. A son may live a dissolute lifestyle for a season, but the difference between a sheep and a pig is that a sheep may fall into the mud, but will not be happy to stay there, and there is a Shepherd to rescue him out of the mud. I have faith that God is not only able to keep me from going to hell, but He is also able to keep me from dying in the pigsty.

The difference between the two is their nature. A
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
I have nothing left to say that has not already been said, good bye.
1 Thessalonians 4:11
and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you,

Well, I guess you were well-trained by @dcontroversal !

Can't answer a question...
Just don't answer it!

Just to confirm that I HAD NO PROBLEM answering yours.
Too easy, in fact.

You cannot answer to mine because there IS NO ANSWER...
Your theology is wrong and you cannot defend it because it is not defendable.

Snarky remarks, that's all one gets here.
No serious conversation....?
No serious bible discussion...
Scripture is not even posted...

Just for you own benefit,,,you should try to answer my verses.
If you cannot....it's a very bad sign.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
HAHHAHAH God inspired the N.T. in GREEK....but.......it never helps....never helps to SUPPORT FALSE DOCTRINE is exactly right....and why many refuse to acknowledge it....
Do you know history?
WHO put together the bible?
Did God come down from heaven to do this?
Please answer.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
You can read and have no problem finding posts.......by the way....I got an interesting Im's behind the scenes....won't say who out of respect....but it was obviously a call for help to tag up on me.............this person NEVER Im's me and always defends you
I have many friends.
Those that understand the bible message and adhere to it.
Those that know Jesus and know how He wants to save us.

Most Christians are synergists, BTW.
But it's much easier believing in monergism...even though it's not biblical.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
Well, that is the first son. I asked about the second son. But we can cover the first son firsr

You seem to have begun with the assumption in the other threads that the prodigal was a saved person because he was called a son. But now you say the first son is the tax collectors and prostitutes that believed and were saved. But they were not saved until they believed. Same with the prodigal. The prodigal represents tax collectors and sinners, (see Luke 15:1-3) who were not saved until they came to Jesus.

The invitation to work in the vineyard was an invitation to receive the Gospel, was it not? Is that not what the context indicates, ie verse 31-32? so the call went out before either son was saved. And as you said, they entered the way of salvation by believing and were saved. SO the son in this parable does not begin with the starting point of being a born again child of God. ANd the sons in Luke 15 don't either. They represent publicans and sinners, who had lived riotous lives and repented, and on the other hand scribes and Pharisees who rejected the Gospel. SO it is the premise of your argument, not the conclusion that I disagreed with

Now to the second son. Not only was the second son not saved, he never got saved (at least the text doesn't say he ever obeyed his father). The second son represents the UNBELIEVING Chief priests and Pharisees.

SO neither son had a starting point of being saved. Both groups were lost, both heard the Gospel, one group obeyed the Gospel, the other group didn't.

Same thing with the parable of the prodigal son

So you were beginning with a false premise, ie the sons in luke 15 and Matthew 21 represent saved people. I did not disagree with your conclusion. I disagreed with your premise. The reason I did so, was because it is very dangerous to try to make the Bible say what we want it to say instead of letting it interpret itself. Also, it is very dangerous to confuse applications for a correct interpretation. I have no problem with your application, Christians can become prodigals and return to the Lord. I was a prodigal for over ten years, and I did things that would shock most people. But I did not die in that state, because GOD'S Grace brought me back

...and it is very dangerous to say that a son is still a son even though he lives a dissolute lifestyle. A son may live a dissolute lifestyle for a season, but the difference between a sheep and a pig is that a sheep may fall into the mud, but will not be happy to stay there, and there is a Shepherd to rescue him out of the mud. I have faith that God is not only able to keep me from going to hell, but He is also able to keep me from dying in the pigsty.

The difference between the two is their nature. A
Let me just say this as easy as I possibly can....DO NOT address ME if you cannot ACCURATELY quote me without embellishing what I SAY.....I absolutely HAVE NO USE for people that cannot engage me truthfully....and or those who EMBELLISH what I SAY and what I SAID is EXACTLY what JESUS SAID.

I SAID--->The tax collectors and prostitutes enter because they BELIEVED HIM........

YOU embellished it to--->But now you say the first son is the tax collectors and prostitutes that believed and were saved
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I have many friends.
Those that understand the bible message and adhere to it.
Those that know Jesus and know how He wants to save us.

Most Christians are synergists, BTW.
But it's much easier believing in monergism...even though it's not biblical.
Fran......I will post the IM and exactly what it said......

WHO?.............WHO is giving you a hard time? I will BLAST THEM

I will NOT say who sent this......out of respect for them.....IT IS OBVIOUS who sent the IM that initiated this response because YOU are the only one I have been engaging for almost an hour......
 
Dec 27, 2018
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my last post was confusing, so I will summarize it.

The two sons in Matthew 21 received the call to go work in the vineyard. The first son said he would not go, but went. The second son said he would go but did not.

Context seems to indicate that "entering the vineyard" equals entering the Kingdom of God and repenting at the preaching of John. (verses 31-32)

Both were represented in the parables as sons, but not all of them had repented and entered the kingdom of God. The second son did not repent. He did not enter. He did not hear. Yet he is called a son. SO your assumption that the word "son" always has to mean a saved person, ie son by birth, is not correct. It does not always mean that, as seen here.

The Prodigal son parable is very similar to this parable. Luke 15:1-3 strongly indicate that the prodigal represents INITIALLY the publicans and sinners, and secondarily anyone who is sinful and comes to Jesus for salvation, the elder son represents those who grumble at their return.

So, if the prodigal son represents the publicans and sinners, it cannot be said that they began with a starting point of being saved. They were not saved until they came to Jesus. and the prodigal represents one who coming from a life of sin comes to Jesus and is saved. That is how it is always used in the Bible, albeit it is only used one time. SO to ask, "would the prodigal have ceased to be a son if he had died as a prodigal" is a moot question, because NOWHERE in scripture do we see the prodigal son dying in his sins. We see the prodigal is a sinner saved by grace.

And nowhere in scripture do we see the prodigal failing to return, because EVERY place the prodigal is mentioned, HE RETURNS>

Now the scribes and Pharisees, elder son, reaction is left open. They may return or they may not return. Jesus is opening the door for them, will they go through it? Some will and some wont

So it is even today...