Not By Works

[unclesilas]

And of course, if you do accept God will place in a saved state people who did not count the cost but made a commitment to His son, Gal5:19-21 is simple to accept. Those who made a shallow commitment will want to find excuses to live as they like. And if you do accept it, you don't have to missaply the meaning of Mark3:28.



They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. 1John2:19

Those who were with John and the church before they left, was John and others hoodwinked? Did they have people in an unsaved state with them, who they could not discern were unsaved? Or, did they know it was not a true conversion which would last when they left? In the meantime they had been placed in a saved state In this sense they never really belonged to those who had surrendered their lives to Christ

No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 1John3:9

If you become a Christian and immediately continue on in your old lifestyle without change in your life, you have not been born of God, faith without works is dead faith.

It really is better to bring the bible into alignment, that is the mature thing to do, not grab a few verses whilst ignoring the rest, and in reality then bringing the bible into contradiction of itself

 

[calibob]

This is not aimed at you, from a previous response of yours I would consider you one of the more mature people on this website.
If the answer to my question is yes, scripture very quickly starts to fall into line much better. Though for some, it would negate their cosy beliefs. If you say you believe in osas, or you say you do not, you are going to find scripture that opposes your belief either way. And you are going to have to do sommersaults with part of the written word to justify your view.
If God knows those who are truly his, for he knows they have counted the cost(the believer is called to surrender their life to Christ) but at the same time he will place a person in a saved state because they made a commitment to his Son, even though, he being all knowing knows it was not the commitment required to last, you are not left with having to contradict scripture with your particular view on the subject. Those who counted the cost will never be lost, those who did not and only made a shallow commitment can be lost
In saying that, the bible is a big book and I am quite sure someone will find a scripture if they so choose to oppose what I have written. But at least I do not have to ignore very plain scripture, which I would have to do if I chose one hard and fast rule over the other

No worries and thank you. I didn't take it personally. I don't believe salvation can be simply lost like a set of keys or through carelessness and I can only speak for myself. I'm not trying to defend any doctrine. But I think it can be discarded or abused thinking like one can commit grievous sins then use salvation like a trump card to stay out of hell. God isn't stupid he can see right through the charade and what he does about it is up to him. That's all.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your understanding is appalling, as proved by your interpretation of mark3:28, and your inability to address Gal5:19-21. As your understanding is so lacking you throw out wild and immature statements as you do.

So I Should listen to your arrogant attacks, when you can not even show how Jesus could mean anything else, and will not even remark about johns words?

Gal 5 was answered, sinners do those things it is their livelihood, believers can not live in thise sins anymore, and paul himself answered you in corinthians, when he said they were those sinners to, but what was his answer? Again as i SHOWED YOU, they were WASHED they were JUSTIFIED and they were SANCTIFIED in jesus name (he never said they stopped those sins, in fact the corinthian church struggled with sexual sin, as babes in christ,

Either way, not only have you been shown to be proud, your also shown to be a lair saying i never responded to those things. When i have.

As for mark 3, i have now given you multiple times to show me where jesus said “may” be forgiven, or “might be forgiven” or “will be forgiven only if you do this” and you have failed, because you can’t they are not there, and you know it, thats why you continue to belittle like you do, because you know you can not dounter me on that passage. And you refuse to even acknowledge johns words,

So on the one hand you appear to claim Jesus was meaning if you live a sinfull lifestyle you are forgiven for that is what he states in Mark3:28, he is not referrinmg to individual sin, yet you then say John states Christians cannot live a sinfull lifestyle. Then you have to ignore what Galatians5:19-21 plainly states. Hopeless really, bye

1 John 3: Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.....He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

If you would get off your high horse for one minute, you would see your made up argument fails.

No i do not say jesus is saying whoever lives in sin is forgiven, he would be contradicting john, who said whoever lives in sin has never seen or known God, because a child of god can not live in sin because gods seed is in them.

Your stuck in a religious pharisee mindset, thus you have a wrong view of what words or terms like all sin, and living in sin, mean, thats why you cant see it, don’t blame me because you refuse to look and see if you may be wrong.

,

 

[Macabeus]

ALL OF GRACE...

Spurgeon- If there is any good thing in us, he put it there. It is not for us to boast. It is for him to boast if he pleases.
Commentary on Ephesians 2:10

Where there is healthy life in a tree, the tree will bear fruit according to its kind; so, if God has made our nature good, the fruit will be good. But if the fruit be evil, it is because the tree is what it always was-an evil tree.

Wesley- For we are his workmanship - Which proves both that salvation is by faith, and that faith is the gift of God. Created unto good works - That afterwards we might give ourselves to them. Which God had before preprepared - The occasions of them: so we must still ascribe the whole to God. That we might walk in them - Though not be justified by them. Commentary on Ephesians 2:10

okay, then you and Calvin are deceivers and scripture twisters if you teach OSAS doctrine...in fact i have been warned that if an ANGEL come preaching any other doctrine to tell him he is a deceiver and a scripture twister

I believe in the Perserverance of the Saints. God is able to keep us from falling.

I don't like the term OSAS, because it has been hijacked by "easy believers" who believe you can believe for a mere instant, and that punches your ticket.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I can't tell if you mean Christ or YHWH when you say God in all caps, but that while fail 'us' thing is absolutely impossible vis a vis human perspective... It's Christ that fears failing YHWH and the Host, but imho the other part is simply you fearing failure in the same way Christ does and lashing out at your God... Anger and/or denial are typically secondary to fear or belief of failure in souled creatures....

I do not fear.

God said he will sanctify me, he never said he might, he also said under no circustances would he abandon me, i am his child

This is why i trust him, and why i have hope, because god, who can not lie, promised me eternal life before time began.

 

[Macabeus]

So that is where these ideas coming from , on second thought I am not surprised

Works are not part of grace, they are because of grace!!

Perservance of the saints is not in the scripture.

Saints to not always persevere.

BTW, no. I did not get what I said from a commentary. But since everyone else so violently disagreed with me, I thought "am I the only one who believes this" and investigated. The results of that investigation are pending

 

[gb9]

ALL OF GRACE...

Spurgeon- If there is any good thing in us, he put it there. It is not for us to boast. It is for him to boast if he pleases.
Commentary on Ephesians 2:10

Where there is healthy life in a tree, the tree will bear fruit according to its kind; so, if God has made our nature good, the fruit will be good. But if the fruit be evil, it is because the tree is what it always was-an evil tree.

Wesley- For we are his workmanship - Which proves both that salvation is by faith, and that faith is the gift of God. Created unto good works - That afterwards we might give ourselves to them. Which God had before preprepared - The occasions of them: so we must still ascribe the whole to God. That we might walk in them - Though not be justified by them. Commentary on Ephesians 2:10


I believe in the Perserverance of the Saints. God is able to keep us from falling.

I don't like the term OSAS, because it has been hijacked by "easy believers" who believe you can believe for a mere instant, and that punches your ticket.

since you like to talk about trees and fruit so much, here is a real life question- I have a big pecan tree. due to my area getting 20 inches of rain over average, the tree did not produce any good pecans.

here is the question- is the pecan tree still a pecan tree, and if so, why?

 

[Macabeus]

Everyone so violently disagreed with what I was saying, that I thought maybe what I was saying was novel. I did some investigation, and it is not novel or new at all.

Matthew Henry- 4:7-13 We have no reason to be proud; all we have, or are, or do, that is good, is owing to the free and rich grace of God.

( commentary on 1 Corinthians 4:7)

CH SPURGEON- In the next place, be it always remembered, that we cannot be saved by the merit of our own works, because holy works are themselves a gift, the work of the grace of God. (commentary on 1 Corinthians 4:7)

Adam Clarke- The doctrine I refer to is this: God is the foundation of all good; no man possesses any good but what he has derived from God. ( commentary on 1 Corinthians 4:7)

Barnes- Who has, by his services, laid God under obligation to recompense or pay him again? It is added in Job, "Whatsoever is under the whole heaven is mine." Thus Paul, contrary to the prevailing doctrine of the Jews, shows that no one could plead his own merits, or advance with a claim on God. All the favors of salvation must be bestowed by mercy or grace. God owned them all; and he had a right to bestow them when and where he pleased. (Commentary on Romans 11:34)

John Gill- no man can give God anything, which he has not first given him,

Spurgeon- If there is any good thing in us, he put it there. It is not for us to boast. It is for him to boast if he pleases.
Commentary on Ephesians 2:10

Spurgeon- Where there is healthy life in a tree, the tree will bear fruit according to its kind; so, if God has made our nature good, the fruit will be good. But if the fruit be evil, it is because the tree is what it always was-an evil tree.

Wesley- For we are his workmanship - Which proves both that salvation is by faith, and that faith is the gift of God. Created unto good works - That afterwards we might give ourselves to them. Which God had before preprepared - The occasions of them: so we must still ascribe the whole to God. That we might walk in them - Though not be justified by them. Commentary on Ephesians 2:10

 

[Macabeus]

since you like to talk about trees and fruit so much, here is a real life question- I have a big pecan tree. due to my area getting 20 inches of rain over average, the tree did not produce any good pecans.

here is the question- is the pecan tree still a pecan tree, and if so, why?

Why do you guys like to argue with the Bible so much?

Matthew 7:17 So every good tree bears good fruit...

Fruit is many things...

Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

Are you saying a person can believe and NOT BEAR ANY OF THESE. IF so, you argument fails on the very first fruit!!!

1 John 3:14- We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

Also, I was not boasting when I said I wanted to shout God's grace from the housetop and I was not judging when I said "how can anyone hide their light under a bushel. and that a city that is set on a hill cannot be hid. Was it you that said I was judging and boasting? If so, you and these other mean spirited people should consider that the REAL JUDGE is standing at the door.

Anyways, what I meant was that it was Jesus who said "a city set on a hill and cannot be hidden", so if anyone takes issue with that, they can talk to Him. And of course I wanted the people I love and everyone else to know about the grace of God. When we hear a nice song,o or read a good book, or eat at a good restaurant, we boast on THEM (not boasting on ourselves) because we want others to experience the same. HOW MUCH MORE THE GRACE OF GOD. Also, when I got married, I did not tell me wife, now dear, I don't want anyone to know that you are my wife, so we are going to keep the wedding secret and our marriage hidden. In the same way, HOW CAN ONE LOVE JESUS AND NOT SHARE HIM.

 

[Macabeus]

since you like to talk about trees and fruit so much, here is a real life question- I have a big pecan tree. due to my area getting 20 inches of rain over average, the tree did not produce any good pecans.

here is the question- is the pecan tree still a pecan tree, and if so, why?

Love is a fruit (Galatians 5:22), and he that does not love does not know God, for God is love...(1 John 4:7-8)

By this we know that we have passed from death unto life because we love. 1 John 3:14

What does that do to your question?

And what are you doing talking to a deceiver and legalist like me anyways. Don't cast your pearls before swine.

 

[dcontroversal]

you are most certainly are wrong. i have spent several years studying and preaching God's word. i started our little church in my living room a few years ago.......i am currently looking for our second building because we have outgrown our current building. We dont have a real big church (75 or so who come sunday morn, sunday night, wed. night and everynight of revivals)

75 percent of our church is people from local baptist church's we have rescued with home bible studies teaching them the truth. i have to be honest, they make some very faithful christian's once they are enlightened

dcon, i'm convinced you did not get this dumb on your own. you had to have help getting this ignorant.

is that how you win your arguments? by dismissing what people say as idiotic?

I will say it again and embellish this time.....

dcontroversal said:
That is one of the most idiotic conclusions I have seen in my 52 years.............while lacking any cognitive reasoning...........

 

[Macabeus]

Hey, check out my new sig!!!

 

[gb9]

Love is a fruit (Galatians 5:22), and he that does not love does not know God, for God is love...(1 John 4:7-8)

By this we know that we have passed from death unto life because we love. 1 John 3:14

What does that do to your question?

And what are you doing talking to a deceiver and legalist like me anyways. Don't cast your pearls before swine.

if you do not want to answer the question, just say so.

 

[Macabeus]

if you do not want to answer the question, just say so.

I did. Love is both a fruit and a result of salvation. And he who does not love does not know God. How much clearer can I be.
and Jesus told you not to cast your pearls to me, so obey Him, since I am such a deceiver.

 

[dcontroversal]

you are most certainly are wrong. i have spent several years studying and preaching God's word. i started our little church in my living room a few years ago.......i am currently looking for our second building because we have outgrown our current building. We dont have a real big church (75 or so who come sunday morn, sunday night, wed. night and everynight of revivals)

75 percent of our church is people from local baptist church's we have rescued with home bible studies teaching them the truth. i have to be honest, they make some very faithful christian's once they are enlightened

HAHAH SEVERAL you say.......and you are going to instruct people that have studied 20, 30 and even 40 years........Paul said that a NOVICE does not make a good preacher/pastor because they will be lifted up in pride.......seems he was correct!!

 

[Macabeus]

if you do not want to answer the question, just say so.

It's called a bad analogy, gb9, because Christians always bear fruit. Love is a fruit, and everyone who loves, knows God and everyone who does not love does not know God. Capeche?

 

[dcontroversal]

Ezekiel 13:22 (KJV)
22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

OSAS has strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

The second most idiotic conclusion I have seen in my 52 years.......

Why not quote a verse that states that instead of your opinion and or a verse out of context from Ezekiel.....is that the church you started in your house...the church of OPINION<---this word comes from two Greek words and is translated HERETIC which means OPINIONATED ONE.......

 

[gb9]

I did. Love is both a fruit and a result of salvation. And he who does not love does not know God. How much clearer can I be.
and Jesus told you not to cast your pearls to me, so obey Him, since I am such a deceiver.

no, you did not answer the question. you just repeated your belief.

i'll say it again- my pecan tree did not bear good fruit last year. is the pecan tree still a pecan tree, and if so, why?

 

[Macabeus]

no, you did not answer the question. you just repeated your belief.

i'll say it again- my pecan tree did not bear good fruit last year. is the pecan tree still a pecan tree, and if so, why?

It's called a bad analogy, gb9 and I called it out as such.

And I QUOTED SCRIPTURE. Do you not believe all scripure is given by God? If you do, then you know that ALL TRUE BELIEVERS BEAR FRUIT.

a. Love is a fruit of the Spirit.

b. He who loves not knows not God.

c. Therefore, he who does not bear fruit (not even love) does not know God.

 

[dcontroversal]

since you like to talk about trees and fruit so much, here is a real life question- I have a big pecan tree. due to my area getting 20 inches of rain over average, the tree did not produce any good pecans.

here is the question- is the pecan tree still a pecan tree, and if so, why?

Get ready for a new version of The Twist by Chubby Checker..........