Far-Reaching Southern Baptist Leadership Sex Scandals Just Exposed
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This is how your hands are washed? I could say the same about my RCC church but that excuses nothing. What if we added the sexual assault/molestation cases for SBC and ALL protestant churches together. Would that not rival the RCC per capita? Probably. But this doesn't excuse anything. It only divides the church. It's a blemish ready to fester.
I can only say these cases are hard to spot. I doubt, BillyD, you would ever condone any sort of sexual conduct, but that's only if you knew it was going on. And it's easier in some respects in your smaller church. What of an institution that has over a billion members. A half a million priests? It's more difficult. And it would be very difficult in your own church.
I don't know how to stop this. I'm not worried so much for the church member. I'm worried about the non-member. What does it say? And can't those who would talk and gossip drift further away? Cause others to go away? Of course it would.
Pray for the church. It's all very sad.
I can only say these cases are hard to spot. I doubt, BillyD, you would ever condone any sort of sexual conduct, but that's only if you knew it was going on. And it's easier in some respects in your smaller church. What of an institution that has over a billion members. A half a million priests? It's more difficult. And it would be very difficult in your own church.
I don't know how to stop this. I'm not worried so much for the church member. I'm worried about the non-member. What does it say? And can't those who would talk and gossip drift further away? Cause others to go away? Of course it would.
Pray for the church. It's all very sad.
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S
I in no way condone what has been reported if true.
But, to compare the way Baptist and RCC churches are run is as different as right from wrong.
RCC is a vast operation with many levels of authority while each Baptist church is autonomous.
There is no central authority over Baptist. Each is responsible for their own actions
If a local autonomous Baptist church has such evil in it, other local autonomous Baptist churches should publish such evil to all who will listen and refuse to fellowship with that church.
There are several Baptist churches in Arkansas we will not fellowship with for various reasons.
Now if the men who are leaders of the SBC have in any way covered up or ignored such action they should be put out of the local church they are members of.
But, to compare the way Baptist and RCC churches are run is as different as right from wrong.
RCC is a vast operation with many levels of authority while each Baptist church is autonomous.
There is no central authority over Baptist. Each is responsible for their own actions
If a local autonomous Baptist church has such evil in it, other local autonomous Baptist churches should publish such evil to all who will listen and refuse to fellowship with that church.
There are several Baptist churches in Arkansas we will not fellowship with for various reasons.
Now if the men who are leaders of the SBC have in any way covered up or ignored such action they should be put out of the local church they are members of.
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I watched a program on Jehovah's Witnesses in Australia and America the other day....just in AU alone there were over 1500 sexual molestation accounts that had been covered up by the "ELDERS" .........seems the farther society slides into evil, the more perverse it becomes sexually.....I cite both Greece and Rome as ancient examples........
From what I have read, posted by a Southern Baptist friend of mine, who had been a missionary with the IMB in the Far East for many years, with her husband, local autonomy was the very thing that made this sexual abuse and coverup so bad.
The leadership of the convention, especially back in the late 1990s with the SBC takeover of the convention and seminaries by the radical, extreme right wing of the convention, under Page Patterson said they could not move on the local churches where this was happening, because it violated the automony of those churches. They even took some of those accused, and gave them new pastorates! How does that not impinge on those same churches? How does not flagging a person, known to be an abuser, fingered by many, just get let off, and a new church!!?
Of course, the local churches were run by arrogant men, who didn't want any scandals in their churches, and they used local autonomy as their excuse NOT to get rid of these heinous men.
When you give men the abolute power to do what they want, and women and children are considered to be "second class" Christians, this sort of thing is bound to happen. When everyone is accountable, then perhaps reporting of these incidents, TO THE POLICE will change things. As far as I am concerned the extreme right wing of the SBC has horribly damaged the convention with their little non accountability of men nonsense. I am using "men" in the plural, but not including women, because no women are allowed in leadership in the SBC. It is literally slavery all over, because women are being judged, not by their hearts and love for God, or even education and experience, but by two XX chromosomes. Now, I am not saying a church like Billy's is part of it. It may be run well, but power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, and no accountability means this is going to continue to happen.
I studied all this in SB seminary. We had a professor, who had been there during the worst. He did report people, but finally left and took an post at our seminary, and he made sure we learned about it! The trouble is, no mechanisms were put into place by the convention. Unless that happens, this will continue.
As far as the RCC is concerned, my Protestant husband grew up in a small town in BC. It had a big RC Church, and he heard many rumours that the local priest was sexually abusing young children, back in the early 1970s. The talk eventually stopped. Do you know why? Because the RCC moved him to a different parish, far away. Of course, he also molested kids in the new church. But someone there reported him to the police thre, he was investigated and a huge number of reports about cases of him abusing children, were found in his old churches, which were ignored until the police investigation. This is what was happening in the SBC churches. So, it was known, and covered up, and continued to be an issue. So the SBC is just as culpable as the RRC.
The SBC has been bleeding church members and churches because of their rigid authority and enforcement of some doctrines, but then not enforcing the laws of the land. In Texas, for example, a new state convention was formed by the local churches, and the walked away from the old one. Page Patterson was the president of SWBT. He decided women shouldn't be given the same rights and classes as men. Hence, after a women professor I know, who was the most qualified person in her discipline, in any denomination in the entire world, was walked out on for speaking in the local chapel, and many incredibly wonderful people left to form a better theological school, which is thriving.
So, first don't answer me with 1 Tim. 2:12 in this thread. This is about news. But feel free to post in the BDF, and we can take a few rounds at the real translation and meaning of that verse. Second, don't tell me all is well in your SBC church. It may be well and good. SB are very godly people, generally, and I am sure many churches were completely unaware this was going on. On the other hand keeping the people from knowing about the sexual abuse is part of the crime. Things may be happening in your church, that you will not know about, till the police arrest happens, and the charges are made known. That is part of what this whole scandal is about. No once being accountable, nor overseeing these misogynists and pedophiles and getting rid of them, when it happened, and reporting it to the police.
S
The church I am a member of is not a SBC church. We are 100% independent.
What I know about the SBC is only what I read and what local SBC church members tell me. And most local SBC church members are not very happy with the SBC leadership. I have suggested many times they should just leave the SBC, but they have not.
While you and I may disagree with the role of women in the local church, I agree all members are equal and should have an equal voice in church matters and they do in my local church. The voice of every woman is heard and welcomed, and considered equal to and some times even better than the men of the church.
If what you say is happening in the SBC and some churches, that is indeed a sad state.
What I know about the SBC is only what I read and what local SBC church members tell me. And most local SBC church members are not very happy with the SBC leadership. I have suggested many times they should just leave the SBC, but they have not.
While you and I may disagree with the role of women in the local church, I agree all members are equal and should have an equal voice in church matters and they do in my local church. The voice of every woman is heard and welcomed, and considered equal to and some times even better than the men of the church.
If what you say is happening in the SBC and some churches, that is indeed a sad state.
I can certainly agree to disagree about women in ministry, for now, anyway. This is not just current. it has been happening for a least 20 years, that I have read about. I hope your church doesn't leave the SBC, but helps it recover, and get over this elitist mentality that the leadership has. Instead, find new leaders, who love God and humbly serve him. I think there is hope, but it will not happen if no one cares. God bless!
1. This report covered a lot of "volunteers"... and we don't know what percentage were volunteers and ordinary laymen rather than pastors... therefore this report may have little reflection on real leadership in any churches, let alone leadership in the SBC.
From what has been reported so far, we have no idea what percentage of "accused persons" were pastors, and what percentage were just ordinary laymen volunteers... people with virtually no authority.
Therefore, until we see further data, we don't really know how much this reflects genuine leadership.
The SBC has about 15 million members, and I'm sure that out of 15 million members, some of them have committed acts of sexual abuse.
2. Nearly 60% of the people in this report facing "credible accusations" were actually charged and convicted.
That means things were NOT all covered up.
This means that crimes were properly dealt with... as they should be.
If you have a membership of 15 Million people, and a couple hundred were found breaking the law, and they were convicted... I'm not really seeing some nefarious systemic coverup. I'm seeing a few people doing wrong, getting caught, and facing the consequences... everything working as it should.
3. So what's really going on in this report?
A. WHO KNOWS!
B. What percentage of these people facing "credible accusations" were actually pastors and people of significant authority, who genuinely reflect the leadership of the SBC? WHO KNOWS.
C. Out of the 42% of these "accused persons" who were NOT convicted, it just might be within the realm of possibility that they were actually innocent. Isn't that possible? What were the circumstances of each case? Are we going to look into the FACTS of each case, or just convict people in the press as soon as they're accused?
Conclusion:
1. There may be problems in the SBC, that may be... but I haven't heard enough evidence from this particular report yet to convince me of anything at all. Maybe more facts and data will be forthcoming.
2. Personally, I suspect the SBC is probably going to become a huge target in the media, eventually, because they don't think much of female pastors, and that's very non-pc. In an era of hyper-radicalized 4th wave feminism, I would suspect they will eventually come under huge fire for holding this position.
3. I'm not involved with the SBC, and they may have genuine problems of wrongdoing, that's entirely possible - but lets take the care to look past vague smears, and hype, and look for actual facts.... good or bad.
...
From what has been reported so far, we have no idea what percentage of "accused persons" were pastors, and what percentage were just ordinary laymen volunteers... people with virtually no authority.
Therefore, until we see further data, we don't really know how much this reflects genuine leadership.
The SBC has about 15 million members, and I'm sure that out of 15 million members, some of them have committed acts of sexual abuse.
2. Nearly 60% of the people in this report facing "credible accusations" were actually charged and convicted.
That means things were NOT all covered up.
This means that crimes were properly dealt with... as they should be.
If you have a membership of 15 Million people, and a couple hundred were found breaking the law, and they were convicted... I'm not really seeing some nefarious systemic coverup. I'm seeing a few people doing wrong, getting caught, and facing the consequences... everything working as it should.
3. So what's really going on in this report?
A. WHO KNOWS!
B. What percentage of these people facing "credible accusations" were actually pastors and people of significant authority, who genuinely reflect the leadership of the SBC? WHO KNOWS.
C. Out of the 42% of these "accused persons" who were NOT convicted, it just might be within the realm of possibility that they were actually innocent. Isn't that possible? What were the circumstances of each case? Are we going to look into the FACTS of each case, or just convict people in the press as soon as they're accused?
Conclusion:
1. There may be problems in the SBC, that may be... but I haven't heard enough evidence from this particular report yet to convince me of anything at all. Maybe more facts and data will be forthcoming.
2. Personally, I suspect the SBC is probably going to become a huge target in the media, eventually, because they don't think much of female pastors, and that's very non-pc. In an era of hyper-radicalized 4th wave feminism, I would suspect they will eventually come under huge fire for holding this position.
3. I'm not involved with the SBC, and they may have genuine problems of wrongdoing, that's entirely possible - but lets take the care to look past vague smears, and hype, and look for actual facts.... good or bad.
...
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As a boy, I was exposed in my church to 3 pastors, who were forced out for moral turpitude. Our associate pastor was Billy Graham's interpreter in his largest and most successful South American crusades. That pastor then had an affair and dumped his wife. I felt sorry for his 2 sons, whom I knew. Another associate pastor was the head of the local chapter of YWAM (Youth with a Mission). A married man, he had an affair at a denominational conference and was forced out. Later, he was given a 2nd chance, which he blew by having another affair, and this time he was defrocked. The 3rd was our youth pastor. He like to show off for our pretty girls, drove his sports car too fast with them in it, and got in a horrific car crash that badly injured these gals. As a teen, I came to see these 3 hypocrites as a symbol of how shallow evangelical spirituality really is.