Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

Guys i want to ask this from all of you reading this:

Do you LIKE doing righteousness? Do you like loving your enemies? Do you like turning the other cheek?

I heard in a sermon that if not, you've never been born again!

Well unfortunately for someone like me, the answer to all those questions is an honest NO. I absolutely hate turning the other cheek when someone offends me. i'd like to tell them how it is, and if they slap me literally, i'd like to KO them.

Over all, listening through that sermon, just made me feel like an unsaved devil, really. Its like, all the qualities that a born again Christian SHOULD HAVE, i do by the skin of my teeth (if thats what the saying was, i forgot the english proverb).

I'll create a fake situation: someone offends me, I wont say anything back to them, and i'll ask God to bless them in prayer, BUT in the mean while im in my mind cussing them out constantly. Then I ask God to forgive me for that, then the SECOND i've said amen, i think about the same things again. IT IS FRUSTRATING TO SAY THE LEAST. I do believe in Jesus and that He shed His blood on the cross for my sins and that its the only payment for my sins......

I dont know if its the STREEEETS that i come from, where i've learned all the wrong things and molded my thinking wrongly, but shouldnt God take care of that for saved people? Make it a JOY to be do righteousness? Instead of a pain!??

Can someone answer my questions honestly. Tell me how it is. PS: i dont believe this is derailing thread, SINCE its related to being born again.

Mark 7:6 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “ ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.

IS MY HEART FAR FROM THE LORD??

Matthew 23:27-28
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

Am i full of hypocrisy and wickedness on the inside???

The truth....I have several areas in my life that I am rock slid on and will never compromise the truth on....and I never boast or brag of the things I do for Christ....and then I have areas of particular weaknesses that I fail in on a regular basis......Paul said he had his thorn in the flesh to keep him from being exalted without measure...

I personally believe that ALL the saved children of GOD, if honest, have areas of weakness and failure in some form or fashion that keeps us humbled before God....

The only people that seem to disagree with this truth on a consistent basis are the salvation losers and those that peddle a works/obedience based salvation that must be kept by what they do.....

No watch how they respond.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Is he still here? After he said he was leaving? Him and Fran are two peas in a pod.

And we have a few new ones as well........they are already in the back of the bus....

 

[Hevosmies]

The truth....I have several areas in my life that i am rock slid on and will never compromise the truth on....and I never boast or brag of the things I do for Christ....and then I have areas of particular weaknesses that I fail in on a regular basis......Paul said he had his thorn in the flesh to keep him from being exalted without measure...

I personally believe that ALL the saved children of GOD, if honest, have areas of weakness and failure in some form or fashion that keeps us humbled before God....

The only people that seem to disagree with this truth on a consistent basis are the salvation losers and those that peddle a works/obedience based salvation that must be kept by what they do.....

No watch how they respond.....

So you would say that im saved even with the conditions that i mentioned?

Thanks! Lets see what others say indeed.
I really want to know if im the only one in the world like this, and if everyone else is just constantly loving to turn the other cheek with no hypocrisy!

 

[dcontroversal]

So you would say that im saved even with the conditions that i mentioned?

Thanks! Lets see what others say indeed.
I really want to know if im the only one in the world like this, and if everyone else is just constantly loving to turn the other cheek with no hypocrisy!

Only liars would say they have no hypocrisy and or failures in some form or fashion.......there is not a just man upon the earth that does good and sins not.....

 

[UnderGrace]

No, but I have a cousin who is an alcoholic. In the natural sense, I completely understand what it would take for an alcoholic to be delivered. But the cross of Christ is not weak, and who would feel comfortable with Christians constantly getting drunk?

Well I do agree the cross is not weak!! Amen ....however people are.

I have always found it a bit of a mystery why two people who are saved and born again, one goes onto deliverance and the other battles all through their life with drunkenness often the symptom of abuse.

They are over run by emotional needs and the flesh and prefer to hold onto what is a temporal sinful comfort rather than letting God see them through

I this is one one reason why I reject your false doctrine of loosing salvation....why because many are weak and sadly miss the boat to a victorious Christian walk, but it does not mean that God has not justified them because they did believe Him for salvation an eternal gift apart from works

 

[Hevosmies]

Only liars would say they have no hypocrisy and or failures in some form or fashion.......there is not a just man upon the earth that does good and sins not.....

Whatever anyone may say about you or what you teach....... it does bring great COMFORT! That cant be denied

Have you considered that book idea that I suggested? (A book about OSAS and going thru verses people use to refute it and explaining those verses?)

 

[dcontroversal]

Well I do agree the cross is not weak!! Amen ....however people are.

I have always found it a bit of a mystery why two people who are saved and born again, one goes onto deliverance and the other battles all through their life with drunkenness often the symptom of abuse.

They are over run by emotional needs and the flesh and prefer to hold onto what is a temporal sinful comfort rather than letting God see them through

I this is one one reason why I reject your false doctrine of loosing salvation....why because many are weak and sadly miss the boat to a victorious Christian walk, but it does not mean that God has not justified them because they did believe Him for salvation an eternal gift apart from works

AMEN....and the bible accurately portrays this truth..........most in God's kingdom are not these super duper uber Christians like the ones that portray themselves like that on CC........10 to 1 if the lives of the salvation losers and Cainologists could be inspected openly..........they would all be found guilty of the things they say causes the loss of salvation.

 

[dcontroversal]

Whatever anyone may say about you or what you teach....... it does bring great COMFORT! That cant be denied

Have you considered that book idea that I suggested? (A book about OSAS and going thru verses people use to refute it and explaining those verses?)

Well.....I made the outline some time ago after I wrote the book on the 2nd coming....but man...it is a chore let me tell ya HAHHA

 

[UnderGrace]

Terrible sermon

Guys i want to ask this from all of you reading this:

Do you LIKE doing righteousness? Do you like loving your enemies? Do you like turning the other cheek?

I heard in a sermon that if not, you've never been born again!

Well unfortunately for someone like me, the answer to all those questions is an honest NO. I absolutely hate turning the other cheek when someone offends me. i'd like to tell them how it is, and if they slap me literally, i'd like to KO them.

Over all, listening through that sermon, just made me feel like an unsaved devil, really. Its like, all the qualities that a born again Christian SHOULD HAVE, i do by the skin of my teeth (if thats what the saying was, i forgot the english proverb).

I'll create a fake situation: someone offends me, I wont say anything back to them, and i'll ask God to bless them in prayer, BUT in the mean while im in my mind cussing them out constantly. Then I ask God to forgive me for that, then the SECOND i've said amen, i think about the same things again. IT IS FRUSTRATING TO SAY THE LEAST. I do believe in Jesus and that He shed His blood on the cross for my sins and that its the only payment for my sins......

I dont know if its the STREEEETS that i come from, where i've learned all the wrong things and molded my thinking wrongly, but shouldnt God take care of that for saved people? Make it a JOY to be do righteousness? Instead of a pain!??

Can someone answer my questions honestly. Tell me how it is. PS: i dont believe this is derailing thread, SINCE its related to being born again.

Mark 7:6 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “ ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.

IS MY HEART FAR FROM THE LORD??

Matthew 23:27-28
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

Am i full of hypocrisy and wickedness on the inside???

 

[unclesilas]

Well I do agree the cross is not weak!! Amen ....however people are.

I have always found it a bit of a mystery why two people who are saved and born again, one goes onto deliverance and the other battles all through their life with drunkenness often the symptom of abuse.

They are over run by emotional needs and the flesh and prefer to hold onto what is a temporal sinful comfort rather than letting God see them through

I this is one one reason why I reject your false doctrine of loosing salvation....why because many are weak and sadly miss the boat to a victorious Christian walk, but it does not mean that God has not justified them because they did believe Him for salvation an eternal gift apart from works

You can only consider my doctrine as false by only accepting half a bible, or doing cartwheels with the plainly written word

For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law but under grace Rom6:14 Correct or incorrect?

 

[Hevosmies]

AMEN....and the bible accurately portrays this truth..........most in God's kingdom are not these super duper uber Christians like the ones that portray themselves like that on CC........10 to 1 if the lives of the salvation losers and Cainologists could be inspected openly..........they would all be found guilty of the things they say causes the loss of salvation.

I agree with that. I've grown up around pentecostals all my life and as you know they believe you can lose your salvation, yet these people were JUST AS sinful as those who believe in OSAS

Not a dime worth of difference!

But I want to ask you bro: WHY does the Bible paint a picture like that? Where you dont do righteousness and that means you're not truly saved? Like 1 John 3:10 ! "whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God"!

And even thats not enough, because you got to do it FROM THE HEART so you're not like me (a pharisee who does it, but in my heart its another story).

 

[VCO]

Would that be the Catholic priest you put on a pedestal?

Or even a Protestant Minister that you put on a Pedestal.

I had an experience once, that Shocked Me. It was when I was younger trying to find a good BIBLE Teaching Church. We went to Baptist Church, and this Baptist Missionary, told us all about living on the Mission Field in Africa. Which led to his Sermon which was about WHY I SERVE THE LORD. I got somewhat uneasy with his sermon, but did not get RED FLAGS until the End of his Sermon. In closing he actually said: The reason that I serve the LORD, is because I want to have the biggest, fanciest mansion on the Street of Gold, it do not want the little shack out back on the Crystal River.

My MOUTH fell open, that he thought GREED was Justified to get what you want in HEAVEN. He had MISSED THE WHOLE POINT OF SERVICE, which is LOVE FOR HIM. The congregation seemed fine with that statement, because they had him up on a Pedestal, because he had been to the Mission Field. I made motion to let's go, to my wife, because I did not want to shake that man's hand. On the way to the car, I told my wife, "I do not care if HE gives me a shack out back on the Crystal River, I just want to be there with my LORD."

 

[UnderGrace]

You can only consider my doctrine as false by only accepting half a bible, or doing cartwheels with the plainly written word

Fort sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law but under grace Rom6:14 Correct or incorrect?

You do realize the Gospel is in fact about the eternal salvation of the person apart from works?

Again where is the metric for loosing salvation?

If you do not have one, no one is actually saved because we all sin and deal with faith and belief issues,

The only people I see on here that get around this are those that claim they are perfect and never sin and have "faith" on some kind of auto pilot.

Yes indeed, sinless perfectionists aka auto pilot Christians

 

[GodsGrace101]

Fran, you would agree with the devil if you thought he was standing against me or something I said....the Heretic is not right.....men do not chose to go to hell...they chose to reject Christ, hell is already a given.......wake up to the truth and start standing for the truth instead of being an obstinate hard head.......!

You mean you believe unbaptized babies go to hell?

We all have a choice D,
We're born lost....but at some point in our adult life we can CHOOSE to be on God's side or satan's side.
If we choose to be on satan's side...we end up in hell.
Isn't it Jesus that saves?
Isn't this why we should choose God?

Don't we even agree on this!

 

[GodsGrace101]

Would that be the Catholic priest you put on a pedestal?

He's not a catholic priest.
I mean he is, but it's a long story.
I don't put anybody on a pedestal.

Not even YOU!

 

[dcontroversal]

I agree with that. I've grown up around pentecostals all my life and as you know they believe you can lose your salvation, yet these people were JUST AS sinful as those who believe in OSAS

Not a dime worth of difference!

But I want to ask you bro: WHY does the Bible paint a picture like that? Where you dont do righteousness and that means you're not truly saved? Like 1 John 3:10 ! "whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God"!

And even thats not enough, because you got to do it FROM THE HEART so you're not like me (a pharisee who does it, but in my heart its another story).

There are MANY that will argue against the truth of the following...

a. It is the spirit that has been born again from above by the free, irrevocable gift of faith and eternal life from seed that is incorruptible

b. It is still housed in a body that is dead because of sin, not subject unto the word and always craves that which is contrary

c. The battle ground is the mind and must be renewed daily by the study of the word of GOD....if transformed by a study and application of the word, not only with the spirit grow and mature, but the outward actions will change because of the inward change<--this process is the same word metamorphosis <---and we understand this aspect. If no study or little study the change will not be complete and our walk will be worldly and carnal

Personal testimony....after the Marines i fell into a life of drugs and immorality......was as wicked and vile as they come.....I had believed in the Lord as a young man, but had not been in church, never studied etc. and I walked contrary.....and make no mistake....anytime I would see a smoking hot chic in my mind......you all get the drift....

Once I started going back to church and hearing the word I began to be convicted of my lifestyle.......I decided that I needed to move to get away from my so called "friends" I wrote a letter apologizing for my misleading life, witnessed and passed it out to every person I could find that I had partied with......they all dropped me like a rock except one.....I moved, immersed my self in the word and church and I began to change on the outside because of the inward change (I.E. feeding my spirit the word) NOW....I can look at a "smoking hot chic" and think yeah she is pretty etc. but I do not go the extra step...I have control over my thoughts and can keep my body in subjection......

This is not to say that I do not fail in areas and or am without daily struggles......we all have them if we are honest....

 

[unclesilas]

You do realize the Gospel is in fact about the eternal salvation of the person apart from works?

Again where is the metric for loosing salvation?

If you do not have one, no one is actually saved because we all sin and deal with faith and belief issues,

The only people I see on here that get around this are those that claim they are perfect and never sin and have "faith" on some kind of auto pilot.

Yes indeed, sinless perfectionists aka auto pilot Christians

I am not one who claims never to commit sin. No believer is sinless. However, I wrote you out a post giving multiple scripture verses that states a believers righteousness/justification/rightstanding before God is faith in Christ. And scripture was included in that, that stated you remain saved as long as you keep your belief. Works save no one, b ut in the real world, in the practical life of a person, what does sin do? it hardens the heart. Commit enough wilfull sin and you lose your faith. And if you lose your rightstanding before God, you cannot at the same time say it still remains can you

 

[UnderGrace]

I am not one who claims never to commit sin. No believer is sinless. However, I wrote you out a post giving multiple scripture verses that states a believers righteousness/justification/rightstanding before God is faith in Christ. And scripture was included in that, that stated you remain saved as long as you keep your belief. Works save no one, b ut in the real world, in the practical life of a person, what does sin do? it hardens the heart. Commit enough wilfull sin and you lose your faith. And if you lose your rightstanding before God, you cannot at the same time say it still remains can you

How long for unbelief, a day, a year.

I know the verses Thank you,

Do you know what is wilful sin, this relates to the Old Testament?

How much wilfull sin? You are adding in about the hardened heart and willful sin, it does not always hardens one's heart that is a lie.

Do you really think this is how God operates.....um okay that is four willful sins you are out, done..... now you have a hard heart, ......finito.... out ....be gone from my sight!!

You are therefore saying that Jesus did not pay for all sins, you cannot have it both ways.

Truthfully in my experience those that cannot accept that God does NOT turn out those that are His, whom He has adopted are people with hard hearts because they keep making Christianity about personal performance, projecting their own personal needs onto God.

 

[VCO]

No, but I have a cousin who is an alcoholic. In the natural sense, I completely understand what it would take for an alcoholic to be delivered. But the cross of Christ is not weak, and who would feel comfortable with Christians constantly getting drunk?

D.L. Moody DID THAT EXACT THING, ministered to those on Skid Row, because HE CARED FOR THEIR SOULS.

Mark 2:17 (GW)
17 When Jesus heard that, he said to them, “Healthy people don't need a doctor; those who are sick do. I've come to call sinners, not people who think they have God's approval.”


Would you go to minister in a Leaper Colony?

Would you go to minister to AIDS victims?

Would you go into the HOLE to minister, in the most VIOLENT Prison?

Would you go into to minister, to the Death Row Inmate?

Would you go into minister, at the State Mental Hospital?


Matthew 25:41-46 (HCSB)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his angels!
42 For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger and you didn’t take Me in; I was naked and you didn’t clothe Me, sick and in prison and you didn’t take care of Me.’
44 “Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or without clothes, or sick, or in prison, and not help You?’
45 “Then He will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me either.’
46 “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

[gb9]

Scripture tells us we are made alive with Christ even when wee are dead in transgression/sinEph2:5, and our righteousness is faith in Christ. And I take the point, an alcoholic could be instantly delivered , or for another it may take time. In saying that though, I would not feel comfortable myself with the idea a person could remain an alcoholic for years. Sometimes they get drunk and sometimes they do not(is that what you mean, or as they are an alcoholic they always get drunk, not sure exactly what you mean?)
In my view, God starts with the things he considers most important that need changing once you get saved, I would think drunkenness would be very high on the list

so, if a person is not instantly freed from addiction , then they are not saved,

your view could not be more wrong if you spent 24 hours comtemplating how to be wrong.