Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
483
170
43
I got no issue answering them but I'd bet the ranch you got an issue with my answers!

Jesus is more than just the "essence" of God. Jesus IS God.

In fact, At Jesus's Baptism, we have a perfect illustration of all 3 members of the Trinity present and SEPARATE from eat other AT THE SAME TIME!

On the 2nd question, I may be wrong, but I do NOT believe that those who do NOT confess Jesus as Lord (God) will be saved.

It is the cults that don't believe Jesus IS God

I'm thinking maybe someone else here needs to mature up a bit!
Second question???? You did not address it at all, just pretended you got asked a different question, you did not answer the first question either. Always the same sadly, big noises made then a refusal to answer

The second question was BTW
Will a person stand condemned on the day of judgement for standing on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth?

Your response:
On the 2nd question, I may be wrong, but I do NOT believe that those who do NOT confess Jesus as Lord (God) will be saved.

Better tov just say yes or no, which was impossible for you, I understand
First question was
If a person agreed with you as the essence of Christ, what title must they give him to be in a saved state according to what is written all over the NT

As you refuse to answer, I am placing you on ignore
 

unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
483
170
43
You can always tell the head theologists on a website, they always want to discuss trinity without understanding the subject. None of those passing comments today could answer the two simple questions I asked yesterday relating to John17:20-23

They may say they did not reply for they wanted answers to questions put, but it is a certainty, that if they could have answered them they would have
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Wow. I must have it all twisted. You're doing " the tree by its fruit" thing huh?
I thought the separation was our proclamation that "CHRIST IS KING!"
So I guess you could pull out the big and easy judgement card if I told you I struggled with drug abuse and still believed and loved the Lord with all my heart?
What do you have to say about that?
I assume only because it was that way with me that it's those exact petty judgements of outward perfection that turn people away from that "Christ stuff"
Here's what I have to say about THAT:


1. We all struggle with sin. So you want a medal because you struggled with drugs?
I hope for your sake that you were healed of this...if not, keep trying. You'll live longer.
Even Keith was able to give it up and he's very healthy now. If HE could do it.. YOU could do it.


2. It is NOT our proclamation that Jesus is King that saves us. This is a modern day misconception.
Jesus made the rules 2,000 years ago --- we should stick to THOSE rules.

Here's what gets you saved:

Romans 10:9
If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;


OK. Now I have a chore for you and please report back to us:
What does it mean to have Jesus as Lord?
What is a Lord?

What does it mean to believe in our heart?


The answers to those question is what will get you saved and keep you saved.
If you notice, Jesus didn't speak much about salvation...maybe 4 or 5 times.


But He sure did speak A LOT about works and teachings!
And how to STAY in the Kingdom of God...maybe 100 times.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,329
6,696
113
Let usa hope gb9 will have the courage to answer the question, he wanted to discuss the subject
easy answer.

when the Word became flesh, it did not cease being the Word.

..... the Word was God.... the Word became flesh.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
No. My "obsession" is with hypocrites like you. You and yours love to point to behavior as "proof" one is saved, and yet your own behavior is just as deplorable as all the rest.
You make serious accusations.
Can you back them up?

WHERE was my behavior deplorable?
Could you post it please?

And...

What IS the proof that you're saved?
Callling people names?
Feeling hate toward your brother Christians?
Feeling you could sin all you want to and still be saved?

What?
 

unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
483
170
43
easy answer.

when the Word became flesh, it did not cease being the Word.

..... the Word was God.... the Word became flesh.
No answer to the question also, which was:

If a person agrees with you concerning the essence of Christ, what title must they give him to be in a saved state according to what is written all over the NT.
You see, you wanted to discuss this subject soooooo much, but as soon as you get asked a question on it you refuse to plainly answer it, just deflection. So I shall put you on ignore as well. Bye
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,483
13,422
113
58
Here is Jesus teaching that if you want to enter life, (you have to) OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS" (Matthew 19:16-30). Is He a works salvationist as you call those who teach OBEDIENCE TO GOD as part of salvation?
No, Jesus is not a works-salvationists and just like Roman Catholics and other works-salvationists, you misinterpret the passage to support salvation by works. Jesus knows the hearts of all men and responds to each individual a little differently because He knows where their need is. He didn't respond to the woman at the well, or to Nicodemus or to the rich young ruler the exact same way, yet the consistent pattern in scripture is salvation by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9).

Jesus showed the rich young man how short he falls of keeping the first commandment (Exodus 20:3) which is the first of the two great commandments (Deuteronomy 6:5; Matthew 22:37). The rich young man confidently and (self righteously) declared that he has kept the commandments from his youth up and qualified for heaven under those terms. Yet Jesus knew the man's wealth had become his idolatrous god, which kept him from believing in Jesus.

The rich young man missed the point that Jesus was making (as did you) and failed to place his faith in Jesus for salvation, and continued instead to trust in his riches (vs. 21-23). The rich young man went away sad because he could not part from his great wealth, not even in exchange for eternal life.

If keeping the commandments is the basis by which we receive eternal life, then why isn't this remark the pattern for all discussions concerning eternal life? Paul would have said to the jailer who asked, "what must I do to be saved?" by replying in Acts 16:31 - keep the commandments, yet that's not what Paul said. Instead, Paul said - "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." *We see this throughout scripture - (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; Acts 15:7-9; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5-6 etc..). What we don't see is salvation by works (Romans 4:4-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

So Jesus is a works salvationist because He told His disciples to teach all the nations OBEDIENCE to all that He commanded them. (Matthew 28:18-20)
We have here a command of Jesus to go and make disciples of all nations, then baptize them and teach them to observe all things that Jesus has commanded them NOT as a means of becoming saved but BECAUSE they are already saved. Don't put the cart before the horse.

So Jesus is a works salvationist because He said that those who love him WILL OBEY HIS TEACHINGS.
Jesus is not a works-salvationists because the one who are obeying His teachings have already been saved through faith.

So Jesus is a works salvationist because HE OBEYED GOD and became the SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM. (Hebrews 5;7-9)
So in Hebrews 5:9, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? Hebrews 5:9 is yet another commonly used verse that I've heard many works salvationists use in an effort to try and support salvation by works (including Roman Catholics, Mormons and Campbellites). *Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by keeping (guarding, observing, watching over) His commandments and practicing righteousness and not sin (1 John 2:3; 3:9,10). *In either sense, only believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation by works. *So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

And all those who follow His example of OBEDIENCE TO GOD are WORKS SALVATIONIST.
No, they are His disciples who are obedient to God BECAUSE they are saved and not in order to become saved by works.

If that's the case, where did the OSAS teachings or doctrines come from?
Scripture.

...He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about YOU HYPOCRITES; as it is written: “‘These people HONOR ME WITH THEIR LIPS, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; THEIR TEACHINGS ARE BUT RULES TAUGHT BY MEN.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “YOU HAVE A FINE WAY OF SETTING ASIDE THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. Thus YOU NULLIFY THE WORD OF GOD by your tradition that you have handed down. And YOU DO MANY THINGS LIKE THAT.” Mark 7:6-13
Oh the irony. :rolleyes:
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
The moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, we are saved. No further conditions/works are necessary to obtain salvation. We also do not maintain salvation based on works. Saving faith in Christ continues and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away. Those who believe the gospel and are saved, have already repented, have already confessed, have the love of God and will abide.

Salvation certainly cannot be earned, yet you seem to imply that it is maintained based on the merits of our performance. If you were standing at the gates of heaven right this moment and Jesus Christ asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your exact answer?
Jesus would not be asking me this question, my friend.
I am already in heaven with Him.

What surprises me about people of faith, is often they do not know their own faith or what they claim to believe.
Does the Holy Spirit dwell within you and testify to your heart of the risen Son of God?

If you do not walk with Him now, why would you think you will walk with Him in eternity?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,329
6,696
113
No answer to the question also, which was:

If a person agrees with you concerning the essence of Christ, what title must they give him to be in a saved state according to what is written all over the NT.
You see, you wanted to discuss this subject soooooo much, but as soon as you get asked a question on it you refuse to plainly answer it, just deflection. So I shall put you on ignore as well. Bye
a person is not saved by placing a title on Christ, they are saved be believing in Christ.

really wish you would admit what cult teaches these worthless lies.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,483
13,422
113
58
Feel free to share your views using scripture JESUSCONVERYOUHERITICS instead of hiding behind red x's.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
In their flesh, they fully can't. Which is why a Christian's destiny is determined by the new nature in Christ.



Read Romans 8.



We have been made righteous (Romans 5:1). We don't have a righteousness of our own via the flesh. Our prayers are effective due to our new nature.



I'll answer that question with a question: Is all sin, past, present, and future, already completely forgiven?
Your salvation is dependent on YOUR walk.
You should learn this....

Galatians 5:16
But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.


Romans 6:16
Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

Are you a slave of God or a slave of satan?
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
@GodsGrace101 you said that since Jesus put conditions on salvation its not a gift but a prize in the end.

Well, WHY does the bible say free gift in Romans 6:23?
And Romans 5:15-18, Ephesians 2:8-9 make the point too!
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,483
13,422
113
58
Jesus would not be asking me this question, my friend.
I am already in heaven with Him.

What surprises me about people of faith, is often they do not know their own faith or what they claim to believe.
Does the Holy Spirit dwell within you and testify to your heart of the risen Son of God?

If you do not walk with Him now, why would you think you will walk with Him in eternity?
It's a hypothetical question and the answer to this question will demonstrate exactly what you are trusting in for salvation, which was the whole point of the question. The Holy Spirit does dwell within me (and all genuine believers - Ephesians 1:13-14) and does testify to my heart of the risen Son of God. Who said I didn't walk with Him now?
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
The problem I have with this thread is that there is no distinction made between
Justification
Sanctification

Sanctification IS EARNED.

It's a cooperative effort between man and God. Jesus did His part on the cross, now it's up to us to do our part.
Jesus said:
Wrong side of the reformation again! you are arguing for SYNERGISM!

Not monergism, which is the biblical way!
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
Where you went off about sinning or losing salvation through sin?

Post 86,396

Yet, you make excuses for your own continual sinning.

Post 85,156

Have you forsaken sinning? No, you have not.

Post 84,995

For a "pastor" you sure don't know much of the Bible.

"He has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before Him." (Colossians 1:22)

Post 84,869

Then you believe a lie.

Post 84,665

What if you die after you told a lie? How about after you lusted for a woman? The Bible says those people will not inherit the Kingdom. Your kind love to trot out the "big" sins, while ignoring the fact that even a single "little" sin attributed to you will send you to hell.

Post 84,558

Are you "abiding in Him" when you sin daily?

Post 84,530

See above.

Etc., etc., etc.
Also I do not lie

The only woman I lust after is my wife!

You don't go looking for bologna when you have steak at the house!

Here's one of the posts you quoted but in its entirety

The fact that all of our sins were in the future at the time of Christ's atonement is totally immaterial.


Our sins were not forgiven at the time of Christ's death. We were not justified when He said, "It is finished."


What was finished was the supreme and eternal and perfect work of Christ in providing the basis for our justification,


"that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus" (Rom. 3:26).


Christ on the cross offered to God a perfect substitute for the penalty which should have been inflicted upon us.


We become partakers of His grace when and only when we savingly believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.


Justification is judicial forgiveness and takes place the moment we accept God's gracious gift of salvation in Jesus Christ, not at the time Christ died on the cross.


To talk about forgiveness for sins not yet committed is pure foolishness.


Our sins were not remitted at Calvary. They were remitted at conversion.


In his great justification passage in Romans 3, Paul clearly and distinctly states that justification is "for the remission of sins that are past" (v. 25).


Romans 3:25 (KJV)
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,598
17,062
113
69
Tennessee
I have alway said since I became Born Again the last week of 1977, "I do not teach a religion, I teach a real Relationship with Jesus Christ, out of LOVE for HIM.
Even though God desires a pure religion I don't believe that Christianity is considered a religion in the sense that it is not a denomination with strict doctrine and practices but rather living a spiritual life in humbly serving the lord. I was born again in 1969 and I believe as you do.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
You don't like free will?

I know all about Christian history Hevosmies.
Calm down.
Who DID put together the N.T.?


I agree with you about pre and post Augustine.
The early church did.

The roman catholic church didnt even exist for centuries after Jesus' death burial and resurrection

When you read "catholic" in church history, its nothing remotely close to what we have today as "roman catholic"
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
Romans 10:9
If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;


OK. Now I have a chore for you and please report back to us:
What does it mean to have Jesus as Lord?
What is a Lord?


What does it mean to believe in our heart?

The answers to those question is what will get you saved and keep you saved.
Tell us! What does believe in our heart mean?