The Great Tribulation VS The Rapture Debate

dcontroversal · Mar 6, 2019

No it isn't......

Tribulation -->Thilipsis -->put the squeeze on, pressure, persecution

Wrath -->Orge-->Fiery indignation of God

Through MUCH TRIBULATION we must enter the Kingdom of God

WE ARE NOT APPOINTED UNTO WRATH

Get your facts straight....there is a difference and Matthew 24, Luke 21, Mark 13 all teach the elect are gathered AFTER the Great Tribulation....

Two different words, two different applications and you are peddling that which the bible does not support....

SIMON55 · Mar 6, 2019

amberlynlover7 said:

It would be faster for you to read the other 5K threads on the same subject but if you got the time to watch 4 or 5 days till it peters out go ahead. 😀

SIMON55 · Mar 6, 2019

Arguing with Preterists is ignorant.....
The Kingdom of God does away with all other GOVERNMENTS!

SIMON55 · Mar 6, 2019

Fly like the Flies!!!!!

AxeElf · Mar 6, 2019

dcontroversal said:

That estimate seems a little high. Given that the first four books of the New Testament are pretty much entirely concerned with the 1st coming, for the 8 to 1 ratio to be accurate, there would have to be 32 books of the Bible that are concerned with the 2nd coming in their entirety.

Can you provide a list of these 32 books of the Bible which are solely devoted to the 2nd coming?

justpassinthrough · Mar 6, 2019

Nehemiah6 said:

Hevosmies said:

These three things happen at the coming of the Lord.

In order.

The resurrection of the dead in Christ.
The Rapture of those who are alive and remain.
The destruction of the wicked including the antichrist.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:4

the dead in Christ will rise first.

2. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

3. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.

Paul explains in more detail, the operation and ultimate destruction of the antichrist in his second letter to the Thessalonians.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8

JPT

justpassinthrough · Mar 6, 2019

Nebuchadnezzer said:

All the dead in Christ will rise first.

Then those who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them.

When all His people are caught up in the air high above the earth, safely with Him in the clouds, He will begin the destruction of the wicked including the antichrist who will be destroyed by the brightness of His coming.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8

The key thing is the coming of the Lord.

All these things occur at the coming of the Lord.

JPT

justpassinthrough · Mar 6, 2019

dcontroversal said:

No it isn't......

Tribulation -->Thilipsis -->put the squeeze on, pressure, persecution

Wrath -->Orge-->Fiery indignation of God

Through MUCH TRIBULATION we must enter the Kingdom of God

WE ARE NOT APPOINTED UNTO WRATH

Get your facts straight....there is a difference and Matthew 24, Luke 21, Mark 13 all teach the elect are gathered AFTER the Great Tribulation....

Two different words, two different applications and you are peddling that which the bible does not support....

Yes sir.

Remember to be nice.

Your blessed.

JPT

justpassinthrough · Mar 6, 2019

SIMON55 said:

Amen.

All other governments!

As chaff on the summer threshing floor!

JPT

dcontroversal · Mar 6, 2019

AxeElf said:

There are 31,102 verses in the bible....and no offence, but Acts, Phillipians, Collosians, 1st and 2nd Thessalonians, 1st and 2nd Timothy, Titus, Hebrews, James, 1st and 2nd Corinthians, 1st John, Revelation, 1st and 2nd Peter, Daniel, Zecheriah, Isaiah, Psalms, Jude and numerous other books have numerous verses that deal with the second coming or reference the 2nd coming ...not only is what I said NOT EXCESSIVE.....it is biblical.............wow!

FollowHisSteps · Mar 6, 2019

amberlynlover7 said:

Church history shows and today, christians are facing anti-christs all the time, who abuse and kill them
daily. So it is more helpful to suggest, whatever the climax might be, Jesus rules and brings judgement.

It is this reality which helps, the sharing of Christs suffering for a fallen world, to be a witness of love
and endurance against hatred and evil, and still bless when cursed, still hope for a better day tomorrow
than be eaten alive by anger and hatred.

I secure, middle class society the tribulation and rapture stories created the delusion you could be safe
and happy and God would save you from pain and suffering from the enemy.

Nothing is scripture brings that message, rather the opposite. And the tendency is to add to the book
of revelations, even when the book itself pronounces a curse on anyone who does this.
It is why any believer should be careful to not beyond the text itself but dwell on its meaning.

SIMON55 · Mar 6, 2019

Iconoclast said:

NERO.....WAS A TRANSGRESSOR
NOT THE ANTICHRIST YOU NEED TO READ DAN. 9 AND UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE
THE TRANSGRESSION LASTS 2300 YEARS DAN 9:14
THEN THE LITTLE HORN KING FIRST BEAST KINGDOM STANDS UP DAN. 7- And DAN 9

1260 OF THE 2300 YEARS.....538-1798 SUFFERS DEADLY WOUND UNTO DEATH
( IN EXILE ) 1798 SECOND BEAST KINGDOM COMES OUT OF EARTH REVELATION TWO HORNED USA BUFFALO
2300 YRS FROM THE DESOLATION 70
NERO NOT ANTICHRIST
TRANSGRESSOR!!!!

FollowHisSteps · Mar 6, 2019

delirious said:

This is like saying, this guy is great, because he agrees with me, and I am great as well, lol

SIMON55 · Mar 6, 2019

SIMON55 said:

THIS SHOULD SAY DAN 8
NOT 9.......8

SIMON55 · Mar 6, 2019

SIMON55 said:

NERO.....WAS A TRANSGRESSOR
NOT THE ANTICHRIST YOU NEED TO READ DAN. 9 AND UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE
THE TRANSGRESSION LASTS 2300 YEARS DAN 9:14 View attachment 195558
THEN THE LITTLE HORN KING FIRST BEAST KINGDOM STANDS UP DAN. 7- And DAN 9 View attachment 195559 1260 OF THE 2300 YEARS.....538-1798 SUFFERS DEADLY WOUND UNTO DEATH
( IN EXILE ) 1798 SECOND BEAST KINGDOM COMES OUT OF EARTH REVELATION TWO HORNED USA BUFFALO
2300 YRS FROM THE DESOLATION 70
NERO NOT ANTICHRIST
TRANSGRESSOR!!!!

THIS SHOULD SAY DAN 8
NOT 9.....8

SIMON55 · Mar 6, 2019

dcontroversal said:

Amen D....just like Transgressor and Antichrist two different entitie tribulation the false antichrist puts the elect on trial
WRATH COMES TRUMP 7😀

SIMON55 · Mar 6, 2019

AxeElf said:

That estimate seems a little high. Given that the first four books of the New Testament are pretty much entirely concerned with the 1st coming, for the 8 to 1 ratio to be accurate, there would have to be 32 books of the Bible that are concerned with the 2nd coming in their entirety.

Can you provide a list of these 32 books of the Bible which are solely devoted to the 2nd coming?

SIMON55 · Mar 6, 2019

AxeElf said:

That estimate seems a little high. Given that the first four books of the New Testament are pretty much entirely concerned with the 1st coming, for the 8 to 1 ratio to be accurate, there would have to be 32 books of the Bible that are concerned with the 2nd coming in their entirety.

Can you provide a list of these 32 books of the Bible which are solely devoted to the 2nd coming?

Nehemiah6 · Mar 6, 2019

SIMON55 said:

Are you seriously claiming that the first six trumpets do not announce the wrath of God, which is then showed in the TERRIBLE SUPERNATURAL events which follow?

REVELATION 8 & 9
6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them...
13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

Both the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation (7th trumpet/7 vials) are expressions of God's wrath.

dcontroversal · Mar 6, 2019

Nehemiah6 said:

Are you seriously claiming that the first six trumpets do not announce the wrath of God, which is then showed in the TERRIBLE SUPERNATURAL events which follow?

REVELATION 8 & 9
6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them...
13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

Both the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation (7th trumpet/7 vials) are expressions of God's wrath.

Why is it so hard to acknowldge that the WRATH OF GOD is announced as BEING HERE AND HAVING ARRIVED at the sounding of the 7th trump....so...whose word do we take...

a. The cowards hiding in dens, caves and praying for the rocks to fall on them at the 6th seal claiming the wrath of God is here

or

b. The announcment made in heaven before the throne of God at the 7th trump that the WRATH OF GOD is here and about to be poured out.

I will go with b over a any and every day of the week

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