Not By Works

[VCO]

It is "part" of our love? What are the other parts? In addition, could you give scripture for what you just said?
I can give you scripture that says God does not love you unless you love Him.
I can also give you scripture that say love is to obey His commands.

That happens after we are saved.

There is no such thing as wrong reason to obey.

The Pharisees OBEYED THE LAW TO THE LETTER, and JESUS SAID:

John 8:44-45 (HCSB)
44 You are of your father the Devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of liars.
45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me.


JESUS ALSO SAID:


John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

John 14:24 (NCV)
24 Those who do not love me do not obey my teaching. This teaching that you hear is not really mine; it is from my Father, who sent me.


LACK OF LOVE FOR HIM, is the same as DISOBEDIENCE. IT IS CALLED PHARISEEISM.


1 Chronicles 29:17 (NJB)
17 ‘Knowing, my God, how you examine our motives and how you delight in integrity, with integrity of motive I have willingly given all this and have been overjoyed to see your people, now present here, willingly offering their gifts to you.

1 Chronicles 28:9 (ESV)
9 “And you, Solomon my son, know the God of your father and serve him with a whole heart and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches all hearts and understands every plan and thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you, but if you forsake him, he will cast you off forever.

Revelation 2:23 (NASB)
23 'And I will kill her children with pestilence, and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds.


IT IS NOT THAT YOU OBEY GOD, THAT CHRIST SEARCHES THE HEART FOR. IT IS WHY YOU OBEY HIM THAT HE SEARCHES THE HEART FOR.

THINK ABOUT IT.

Any motive besides AGAPE LOVE is a pile of filthy rags before GOD.

Isaiah 64:6 (NIV)
6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

1 Corinthians 13:3 (NJB)
3 Though I should give away to the poor all that I possess, and even give up my body to be burned—if I am without love, it will do me no good whatever.

 

[dcontroversal]

I live in Jesus and he in me.

So which are you Mormon or JW....your refusal to answer = losing any and all chances of credibility

 

[dcontroversal]

Some here cannot determine the difference between the different O.T. laws:
Ceremonial
Civil
Moral

The Moral Law will NEVER be abolished because GOD IS MORAL and He cannot separate Himself from His nature.

Somehow this is a difficult concept to grasp for some
and some call it "works".

I never thought obeying God was a "work" till I got to this thread some months ago.

Here is what the N.T. says about doing good deeds:



Galatians 6:9
And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

Colossians 3:17
And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

James 2:26
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.


Unfortunately, some refuse to understand the nature of God and the N.T. commandments.
I truly am beginning to fear for their souls....something I would never have said before now....
since it's God's job to judge souls....not mine.

But can it be any other way?
If one loves God one does not speak AGAINST doing His will.

Some here, in particular you, by action and word declare you have no integrity and or honesty....Banned members back under new names peddling obedience to remain saved are setting forth the exact opposite of being obedient........

 

[VCO]

Did you forget that you were going against me for preaching obedience to Christ?

You were preaching the WRONG MOTIVE.

It is NOT HAVE TO OBEY HIM.

IT IS I WANT TO OBEY HIM BECAUSE I LOVE HIM.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

 

[dcontroversal]

I have no idea what you are talking about.

We already know that you have no idea..............................!

 

[dcontroversal]

Actually circumcise was given to abraham, a little over 400 years before moses was even born

Next..

Haahaha no doubt but hey...false is false is true right....

 

[dcontroversal]

Where is the word Law

You said law

Circumcision was given to abraham outside the law..

Either back what you claimed, or admit you were wrong.

Good luck with that.........highly unlikely

 

[UnderGrace]

Some here, in particular you, by action and word declare you have no integrity and or honesty....Banned members back under new names peddling obedience to remain saved are setting forth the exact opposite of being obedient........

When I really stop and think about this, and I mean really reflect, I am reminded of the big disconnect.

Then when I really stop and think some more, I just find it so unfair to others, who brought so much insight, who have been banned. Now I am sad.

 

[dcontroversal]

When I really stop and think about this, and I mean really reflect, I am reminded of the big disconnect.

Then when I really stop and think some more, I just find it so unfair to others, who brought so much insight, who have been banned. Now I am sad.

I agree....All I know is that I absolutely cannot stand those that devalue Jesus, his work on our behalf, his promises, his power while peddling an obedience laced self saving dogma while being disobedient, not honest and or having no integrity whatsoever at all............I will fire on all false dogmas...and for sure those that peddle obedience to remain saved while being dosobedient....

 

[Hevosmies]

Tragic view and to be honest...not honest with the facts......there are nuances and tenses in Greek that do not translate over into English....I really thought you were honest with the truth.......

What do you do when those greek scholars who know it waaay better than you disagree with you?

Do you roll over and accept their nuances and tenses in the greek? Most likely not

I believe God knew what He was doing and the bible can be translated into ALL languages in understandable form

Why call me dishonest for saying my opinion: STICK WITH THE ENGLISH. If you dont know greek. Could you order a hamburger in greek? no? Then dont go with the greek. Yes? Then tell me and i will listen. I know Angela here is knowledgeable in the greek, i respect her opinion on that topic
Checking lexicons doesnt equal knowing greek. i can do that too.

 

[YourTruthGod]

He was not saved because he went, He was saved because he believed
Gen 14. Abraham BELIEVED and it was acredited to him as righteousness.

Faith works. Faith does not go against the thing it is trusting, It trust him so it does what it says.

Apart from salvation though. No works matter.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?


James 2:22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Actually circumcise was given to abraham, a little over 400 years before moses was even born

Next..

Abraham was first to be circumcised and that was the beginning of works.

 

[YourTruthGod]

James did not hear about a faith alone doctrine

He heard about a CLAIMED faith doctrine, also known as mere belief, And later termed licentiousness

Wow man, You need to go to church and start to learn some things.

Of course James heard of the false doctrine of faith alone, or he would not have said:

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Where is the word Law

You said law

Circumcision was given to abraham outside the law..

Either back what you claimed, or admit you were wrong.

Paul says different:

Romans 4:11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them

Circumcision was the sign for the works of the law that justified one before God. That is what the purification works of the law did.

 

[UnderGrace]

What do you do when those greek scholars who know it waaay better than you disagree with you?

Do you roll over and accept their nuances and tenses in the greek? Most likely not

I believe God knew what He was doing and the bible can be translated into ALL languages in understandable form

Why call me dishonest for saying my opinion: STICK WITH THE ENGLISH. If you dont know greek. Could you order a hamburger in greek? no? Then dont go with the greek. Yes? Then tell me and i will listen. I know Angela here is knowledgeable in the greek, i respect her opinion on that topic
Checking lexicons doesnt equal knowing greek. i can do that too.

Hevosmies, actually Koine Greek was the most perfect language for God to use, it is not any coincidence.

The real problem is dishonest people have made the translations fit their doctrine, this has happened a lot...first one must use sources that have been developed with integrity and as well as knowledge.

Apart from Greek, I think understanding the structure of language, tenses, etymology, linguistics, metaphors, hyperbole is also helpful.

It is about time investment and learning to discern who is trustworthy.

 

[YourTruthGod]

The Pharisees OBEYED THE LAW TO THE LETTER, and JESUS SAID:

Jesus said they didn't obey:

Matthew 23:3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

They also did not repent of their sins as we are all supposed to do.


Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and the experts in the law rejected God's purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.)

JESUS ALSO SAID:

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

John 14:24 (NCV)
24 Those who do not love me do not obey my teaching. This teaching that you hear is not really mine; it is from my Father, who sent me.

The scriptures say plainly what love is:

1 John 5:3 Love for God means obedience to His commands; and His commands are not irksome.

It is written simply:

2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands.

LACK OF LOVE FOR HIM, is the same as DISOBEDIENCE. IT IS CALLED PHARISEEISM.

Again, the Pharisees did NOT do everything God said to do. Jesus said they did NOT obey. They did not repent of their sins.

IT IS NOT THAT YOU OBEY GOD, THAT CHRIST SEARCHES THE HEART FOR. IT IS WHY YOU OBEY HIM THAT HE SEARCHES THE HEART FOR.

God searches hearts and minds and we have to obey Him.
Revelation 2:23
I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.

1 Chronicles 28:9
"And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every desire and every thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

THINK ABOUT IT.

Any motive besides AGAPE LOVE is a pile of filthy rags before GOD.

Isaiah 64:6 (NIV)
6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

That is because they were not sorry for their sins.
They gave righteous blood offerings but weren't really sorry for their sins so it made the blood from the animals they brought like blood from a menstrual rag meant to be thrown out.

1 Corinthians 13:3 (NJB)
3 Though I should give away to the poor all that I possess, and even give up my body to be burned—if I am without love, it will do me no good whatever.

 

[YourTruthGod]

1 Corinthians 13:3 (NJB)
3 Though I should give away to the poor all that I possess, and even give up my body to be burned—if I am without love, it will do me no good whatever.

That is Paul warning not to let your love run cold.

Matthew 24:12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,

Matthew 24:13 But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

 

[YourTruthGod]

You were preaching the WRONG MOTIVE.

It is NOT HAVE TO OBEY HIM.

IT IS I WANT TO OBEY HIM BECAUSE I LOVE HIM.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

There is not a wrong motive to obey Jesus.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Haahaha no doubt but hey...false is false is true right....

Obviously Paul speaks about the circumcision of Abraham and the law that came later.

Galatians 3
The Law and the Promise

15 Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” i meaning one person, who is Christ. 17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

 

[dcontroversal]

What do you do when those greek scholars who know it waaay better than you disagree with you?

Do you roll over and accept their nuances and tenses in the greek? Most likely not

I believe God knew what He was doing and the bible can be translated into ALL languages in understandable form

Why call me dishonest for saying my opinion: STICK WITH THE ENGLISH. If you dont know greek. Could you order a hamburger in greek? no? Then dont go with the greek. Yes? Then tell me and i will listen. I know Angela here is knowledgeable in the greek, i respect her opinion on that topic
Checking lexicons doesnt equal knowing greek. i can do that too.

Did you read the book? Do you think I whip crap off my hip? And I am seminary educated which involved the study of Greek and Hebrew....and my brother has a doctorate in Greek and Hebrew....your view was not a fair assessment and my post stands...there are nuances and tenses in Greek which the bible NT was inspired In thst are NOT BROUGHT OUT IN THE ENGLISH......not a fair or HoNEST assessment man and your point was moot.....ypu don't know me or what I have studied and or know pal